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WHY the majority doesn't vote for CSM

First post
Author
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2012-01-27 20:21:44 UTC
Test Alliance Please Ignore hereby invites all CSM candidates to the Bacon Bar channel on our Mumble server for a live debate.

By debate I mean 'aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa' chain
Prince Kobol
#62 - 2012-01-27 20:50:49 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
I would love to see a None of the Above option added but it will never happen simply because of the potential embarrassment it could cause.

What would CCP and the CSM do if the None of the Above option received more votes then anyone else?

Current CSM would disband.
No new CSM would appear.
Any discussion with players would be stoped (players don't need it anyway).

I suppose this is what you want?Shocked


At any point did I say this is what I wanted?

Remember.. assumption leads to the mother of all **** ups Big smile

The simple fact is that having the option of "None of the Above" would be very dangerous not only for the CCP but for the CSM.

IF the option existed and IF the community were to vote for it in large numbers then nothing the CSM would have to abide that decision as it was the very same process that put them into power to begin with.

CCP could not ignore the decision as it would show that the community has major trust issues with either the candidates, the concept of a CSM, or the way the voting works.

That is why it will never happen.
Lady Starfire
State War Academy
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-01-27 20:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Starfire
TWO ARMS CARE SO MUCH ABOUT VOTING OTHER TWO ARMS INTO POSITIONS OF POWER TO KEEP ONE ARMS DOWN. WHY ARE NO ONE ARMS ELECTED TO THE CSM HMMMM BECAUSE CCP HATES ONE ARMS AND TWO ARMS WORK WITH CCP TO KEEP US DOWN.
Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-01-27 21:35:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagam
Jenny Cameron wrote:
Zagam wrote:
"indirect vague elections"... HUH?

How are they indirect, and how are the vague?

1 account = 1 vote. highest 7 votes win. top candidate is chairman. That is about as direct as you can get.

Vague - what do you want, a CSM full of single-issue candidates?

Vague as in the average player has no idea what candidates stand for and the differences between them,.
It's everything but transparent.
So most non-fanatical hardcore players just doesn't bother.

If people vote for ideas or parties, things already get a lot easier and clearer.


Let me break these down really quick -

Quote:
Vague as in the average player has no idea what candidates stand for and the differences between them.

Have you actually asked them? Or did you read the nomination posts for the last election? I've asked the current CSM several questions, and ALWAYS gotten a response, and conversed with them.

Quote:
It's everything but transparent.

Its pretty straightforward when CCP posts up how many votes they got exactly. (in terms of elections). In terms of what the CSM actually does... There are minutes posted. There are two entire subforums set up for conversing with the CSM. Yes, the NDA is in place, but welcome to the "real world". I work under an NDA right now (along with a non-compete agreement, and a security clearance). Get used to it!

Quote:
So most non-fanatical hardcore players just doesn't bother.

Thats because the most fanatical hardcore players are the only ones willing to devote the time to being a CSM. From talking to several current and past CSMs... its like a second job. You REALLY have to like EVE, and you have to be able to bring people together to even be in the same area code as the CSM. Its not easy!


---

If you want to make a big deal about the CSM, instead of posting drivel on the forums, whining, and stamping your feet, why don't you run for CSM?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#65 - 2012-01-28 02:08:41 UTC
Zagam wrote:


Quote:
It's everything but transparent.

Its pretty straightforward when CCP posts up how many votes they got exactly. (in terms of elections). In terms of what the CSM actually does... There are minutes posted. There are two entire subforums set up for conversing with the CSM. Yes, the NDA is in place, but welcome to the "real world". I work under an NDA right now (along with a non-compete agreement, and a security clearance). Get used to it!


Security Clearances are fun. A friend of mine works with a defense contractor doing I-don't-know-what for the company's [redacted] department.

From his skills and education, I'm pretty sure I know what he does, but I'm also not the type of prick who's gonna ask him a question that would put him in an awkward position.

Hell, in the Medical Field, I have a very specific strategy on making sure I avoid HIPAA privacy violations. If I treat you, or otherwise provide care to you for something, I guarantee that ~5min after I finish my paperwork on you, I will not remember your name. In a day, I won't remember your face, and in another few days, I'll have forgotten any distinguishing features. So all of my medical stories start with "So this one asshole..."

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#66 - 2012-01-28 02:23:09 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:


Well you did chose the use of the word Poop. Might want to re-examine where the childishness originates from.

Keyword in my argument being "consistantly". You only have to review a small amout of Lady Spanks posts to see how much of an inane troll poster he/she is. And yet this is a person who according to the C&P forum wishes to run for candidacy? I'd be suprised if he/she could even spell the word manifesto let alone understand what one is and produce one. Totally encourage the production of one howerver, maybe call it:

Consistency........... Small Sample of Posts. I'm missing something.

Spanks been around for quite a while and he's pretty well respected in See&Pee. There just happened to have been more straight up stupid posting going on in GD recently. It's too much to ask us to not troll them ridiculously.

I know I've got the maturity of a 5 year old, I was under the impression you held yourself to a higher maturity level, thus "we"

Quote:

If so have an ice cream and keep quiet whilst the adults talk please.

(Also with tourettes it is a condition where the urge to do something overwieghs the aspect of control, and the extreme case of use of obsence words is actually only representative in a small minority of those sufferers. Depsite that I use the term here purely as a descripter for the style of behaviour. I mean no offence to the individuals who suffer from it. But I suppose like the R-word it isn't welcome, so I'll refrain from using it further and replace it with a more accurate term or something akin to "speaking without thinking".)


Can I have Sprinkles and Gummi Bears?

I'm familiar with tourettes, but the only funny type is the cursing kind, so that's what I always picture. I do recognize that just about any mental disorder is a spectrum (for instance, persistent auditory hallucinations providing instruction are only considered a symptom of schizophrenia if you follow their [often paranoid] commands. If you don't follow the commands, you're considered healthy. Estimates suggest upwards of 20% of the population hears voices on a regular basis).

Gah. I was going to make an off color joke about people's pussyfooting around the word ******, but I decided against it. The point of that is that the people who can be described as ******** don't care what you describe them as so long as you're nice to them. Hell, they can be a lot of fun to work with. The higher functioning patients tend to enjoy when you help them use their disability to mess with other people.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#67 - 2012-01-28 02:24:29 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
We need debates.


Host them. In the real world Debates are held by media groups and other sponsors. So don't ask CCP (the electoral governing body) to figure out how to run debates, run them yourself.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

ILikeMarkets
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-01-28 02:25:34 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
We need debates.


Host them. In the real world Debates are held by media groups and other sponsors. So don't ask CCP (the electoral governing body) to figure out how to run debates, run them yourself.


This. Very much this.

Proof that capital ships are rare in EVE: http://imgur.com/gallery/jJJE1

met worst
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-01-28 02:27:42 UTC
Zagam wrote:

If you want to make a big deal about the CSM, instead of posting drivel on the forums, whining, and stamping your feet, why don't you run for CSM?

I've been posting drivel on the forums, whining and stamping my feet.

If I stand, will you promise not to vote for me?
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-01-28 02:31:55 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
No...

The majority don't vote because they think the game is just fine the way it is and they really don't care about yet another event put on by CCP that is meaningless to them.

Mr Epeen Cool

I really liked this post.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-01-28 02:33:38 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
What each CSM member stands for should be more apparent to voters.
Under each candidate in the voting process, there should be a very little phrase which gives a rough indication of what the CSM member represents.
For example:
'Wants more highsec iteration'
or
'Death2allsupercaps'
or
'Wants WiS'
or
'Mining/Industry development'
etc.

OK.

I am going to be a CSM7 candidate. I want to be a passionate advocate for whatever the People expressly want.

That's my entire platform.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Morganta
The Greater Goon
#72 - 2012-01-28 02:34:08 UTC
met worst wrote:


If I stand, will you promise not to vote for me?


I promise not to **** on you if you catch fire
met worst
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-01-28 02:45:53 UTC
Morganta wrote:
met worst wrote:


If I stand, will you promise not to vote for me?


I promise not to **** on you if you catch fire

Phew. That's a relief. The last person told me they'd set me on fire.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#74 - 2012-01-28 02:51:06 UTC
Morganta wrote:
met worst wrote:


If I stand, will you promise not to vote for me?


I promise not to **** on you if you catch fire


In the vein of Soundwave's wildlife management advice, will you promise to piss on me in the event I get stung by jellyfish?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Vyl Vit
#75 - 2012-01-28 12:01:52 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Baby Spank's probably more well known than that Vyl Vit guy. Sounds like he can communicate just fine.

Oooh, I haven't seen reparte on this level since I left the high school lunchroom. Oh to be a cool kid...and get a pony for christmas.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Cass Lie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-01-28 13:28:02 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
We need debates.

Last year, Jade & Jayne from Lost in Eve podcast hosted several episodes worth of debates of CSM candidates, many of which eventually got elected. This year Jade announced that he will be doing the same. Just stay tuned to Lost in Eve. Other podcasts may host debates as well.

Note: I am in no way affiliated with LiE, I just think Jade is doing an awesome job.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#77 - 2012-01-28 13:41:32 UTC
Jenny Cameron wrote:

Why doesn't CCP let people vote for ideas instead of people? Why no polls? That way they know what their player base wants, no votes are lost and more people may vote, simply because it's far more straightforward than voting for people.
Voting for people is a very indirect way to see what your players want.


That's actually not a bad idea

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-01-28 14:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit McJafitson
Rodj Blake wrote:
Jenny Cameron wrote:

Why doesn't CCP let people vote for ideas instead of people? Why no polls? That way they know what their player base wants, no votes are lost and more people may vote, simply because it's far more straightforward than voting for people.
Voting for people is a very indirect way to see what your players want.


That's actually not a bad idea


It is if you know anything about statistics and the response rate and accuracy of polls among customers.

When was the last time you took the time to fill in a questionare for a product or service you've used? Usually the only people who will take the time to give feedback are the people who are either really happy or really unhappy with something.

What if the survey doesn't ask the questions or address the issues you want to raise? Or what if it asks a question and you don't really understand what it means, who do you ask for clarification? What if you answer a question and it's interpretted wrongly by the researcher? Here's an example:

Are Titans Balanced? [X] Strongly Disagree, [ ] Disagree, [ ] Indifferent, [ ] Agree, [ ] Strongly Agree,
What does that mean? Do I think that titans are way overpowered or do I think that they're completly useless?

That's a simple example but hopefully you get the point. Surveys can be ignored and interpretted wrongly, I'd rather have someone I can talk to about an issue, especially when this game is so complicated and there are so many things to address, that a survey would have to be huge, or you'd have to simply ignore some issues.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-01-28 15:06:09 UTC
The majority of players don't vote because they don't know who or what the CSM is or does. If CCP wants a greater voter turnout, then they need to incorporate the CSM into the client itself.

Say for example, having CSM advertisements on the TV in Captain's Quarters, or even on the billboards around the gate. And most importantly allowing players to vote for the CSM right inside of the client itself instead of having to go to a webpage to do it.

Right now, it is "difficult" to vote for the CSM. Someone has to read the forums in order to stay informed, and if they want to vote they have to SEARCH for the voting page, and log in with each of their accounts. There are many things CCP could do to improve this process.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#80 - 2012-01-28 15:15:07 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Jenny Cameron wrote:

Why doesn't CCP let people vote for ideas instead of people? Why no polls? That way they know what their player base wants, no votes are lost and more people may vote, simply because it's far more straightforward than voting for people.
Voting for people is a very indirect way to see what your players want.


That's actually not a bad idea


It is if you know anything about statistics and the response rate and accuracy of polls among customers.

When was the last time you took the time to fill in a questionare for a product or service you've used? Usually the only people who will take the time to give feedback are the people who are either really happy or really unhappy with something.

What if the survey doesn't ask the questions or address the issues you want to raise? Or what if it asks a question and you don't really understand what it means, who do you ask for clarification? What if you answer a question and it's interpretted wrongly by the researcher? Here's an example:

Are Titans Balanced? [X] Strongly Disagree, [ ] Disagree, [ ] Indifferent, [ ] Agree, [ ] Strongly Agree,
What does that mean? Do I think that titans are way overpowered or do I think that they're completly useless?

That's a simple example but hopefully you get the point. Surveys can be ignored and interpretted wrongly, I'd rather have someone I can talk to about an issue, especially when this game is so complicated and there are so many things to address, that a survey would have to be huge, or you'd have to simply ignore some issues.


The problem with your question isn't that questions are inherently bad, but that it's simply a bad question.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori