EVE General Discussion

NOTE: Apparently I was grossly misinformed about how the trade scam worked. I was assured by multiple people (> 8 people) in Jita and on Forums that it involved exploiting lag. A further post down expresses otherwise. Until I see it for myself, I'll leave this thread be and quit bitching about something I probably don't know what I'm talking about. =D Below is the old thread.

Additional Note: Vera pointed out at the bottom of this thread that there was indeed a version of the trade window scam that is an exploit and was bannable back in 2007. Fixed now.

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I kept hearing more and more about a particular type of "scam". Being interested in scams, I asked around heard all about the "Trade window" scam. All I can say is... wtf?!

I have no problem with scams. If someone puts up a 200 mil contract for some inane object, shouts "WANT TO BUY" and some fool actually accepts the contract, losing 200 mil and gaining that worthless item- it is their fault. If someone wants to put up 2 or 3 contracts in a row, one of them not being the real deal and some fool goes and buys all 3 in a row, thinking they are identical, and loses out- it is their fault. If someone shouts "Send me your isk and I'll double it!", and they send them isk- it is their fault.

But exploiting a broken game mechanic should never, EVER be considered a scam. That is an exploit- nothing more, nothing less. To sugarcoat CCP's inability to fix even a small networking issue like that by saying "Working as intended" is a joke. I've been trying to wrap my head around how people can consider this a scam, and yet other things in the game are bannable exploits (like the drone POS exploit from a while back). Wtf?! Either making NOTHING bannable and let us have a field day with all the broken mechanics, or actually man up, admit there's a problem with the system, and start banning anyone who exploits it. But don't do half and half and leave the players to wonder just how much of the broken system they can get away with manipulating.

In before "It teaches them that EVE is hard". No, it teaches them that EVE is broken. :-P

tl;dr- announce that no mechanic exploit is a bannable offense and leave us to our own devices. Or start banning for exploiting.
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What's broken about it?

But they warn you no less than 4 times from day one to the first time you use player to player trade that you should only do it with some one you trust.
Like quick trading with a corpie, not some random in Jita. Yes I do agree its an exploit not a scam, BUT they do tell you its dangerous a few time first, so I can't feel any worse about the victim than I would for some one dieing in low-sec, because they couldn't be bothered to read the pop-ups.

Because who in their right mind would think that would involve a broken mechanic? >_> If they were to write "Hey guys, the trade system is totally broken to pieces so folks can pretty much just steal your items through the trade window", I'm halfway certain people would pay more attention. :-P

But again, all is fair in love and war if you let me play with my drones with POSs, log out whenever I want and play docking games all night. >_>

Why start another thread for it? The other one already had some good arguments in it. It also has the explanation why it is not an exploit, but a simple scam.

All the scammed guy had to do is wait a few seconds to see if the value changes, before he accepts.

In short: Exploits are banable offenses - scams are not. If you want to be safe, set up a contract (carefully) for trades with strangers.

Then it is indeed an exploit that can be reported and reversed.

It is entirely safe, if handled safely. The whole scam relies on the mark not paying attention. If you know that you're a person who can't pay attention, there are two more trading options available to you with increasing levels of safety (at the cost of decreasing levels of versatility).

Your a moron.

If somebody does not double check that the price has changed your a moron. I use the trade menu and have never been scammed since I make sure that what I get is what I pay for and vice versa.

Greed makes people loose isk...

You have 4 ways to move things between players in station, sorry that your to lazy to read the dangers, cost , benifit, and draw back of each be fore listining to the first guy you met tell you to leave your cell phone and panties at home becouse he has some in the van with the candy.

From what I'm told (I only use the trade window to trade incidentals with allies or between my own alts), checking what's being traded is not enough. A potential victim must check multiple times in case the scammer pulls a switcheroo while the victim is distracted entering their portion of the exchange.

That's an important distinction. I was in Jita last night and saw someone claiming a negative wallet balance, advertising a Bhaalgorn for sale through trade only. I don't doubt it's a variation of the age-old CNR/Raven scam, and relies primarily on a switcheroo — with a side salad of the mark only half-glancing at the icon before accepting.

Other MMORPGs utilize trade systems in which both parties must first "lock in" what they're going to trade, and only then does an "accept" button become available to them. If anything is switched, the "accept" button grays out.

I support and appreciate the existence of scams in EVE, but the trade window itself has more security holes than a block of Swiss cheese. Being totally impatient and inattentive is not a prerequisite for trade window victimhood.