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Transports, Why the active rep bonus?
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beor oranes
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2012-01-27 01:28:19 UTC
Just add them to the list of ships which require attention and move on...
Sin Meng
Catskull Horizons
Grimskulls
#22 - 2012-01-27 01:46:40 UTC
% Increase to warp speed or % reduction to total mass would be nice.

Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#23 - 2012-01-27 02:05:05 UTC
mxzf wrote:
GankuVerymuch wrote:
I agree agility on a BR would be a bit too much. But it's nice to see that I'm not the only one that noticed the active rep bonus is pretty useless.

Also I would love a second high slot. Strange Winmatar are the only ones that have one isn't it? But I don't want it to sound like another winmatar whine thread. Blink


It's also the only one that physically cannot carry a cruiser (10k m3) even with maxed out cargo and T2 rigs. It's a tradeoff.


Meaningless distinction if the destination allows you to manufacture and reproc with bearable efficiency.

A vexor is 4k m3 as mins and bpc.

425mm railguns offer 11:1 compression of mins I'm lead to believe. You can compare them to the battlecruiser you want to ship to figure out what ratio of guns and loose mins you need to move a stack of them, and then leave yourself some space for the fit modules too. If there is excess isogen or whatever, your BR is probably empty on the return trip anyway, can return that stuff to market loose.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#24 - 2012-01-27 03:44:15 UTC
I use the rep bonuses and I find that the guys on battleclinic are very misleading on the subject as many don't do much trading/hauling.

The rep is great for getting past a few cheap frigs. Ussally the only kind of gangs fast enough to lock you down.
Getting back through a gate after they all opened up on you can be nice as you just fly on the other side.

Larger ships have the power to kill you before getting back to the gate but your already fast enough to avoid them.

If you take anything into a big mixed blob your probly dead especially in a bubble. Haulers are no different.

So why use the rep bonus? Because dying to 1 or 2 T1 frigates will suck if you don't.
Also the closer the def of a ship gets to the dps output of the attacking ship the more your rep bonus does compared to an effective health number. Yes the health would help v.s. larger ships but if they are on you your probly dead anyway. The rep bonus gives this class of ship a decent chance v.s. a few frigs.

Remember these are for low sec and it's best to use them as such. Don't try to get through bubbles and blobs with them. If you need to do 0.0 moves best to use a jump freighter to get past hostile areas.

They are working as intended.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#25 - 2012-01-27 08:28:30 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
I use the rep bonuses and I find that the guys on battleclinic are very misleading on the subject as many don't do much trading/hauling.

The rep is great for getting past a few cheap frigs. Ussally the only kind of gangs fast enough to lock you down.
Getting back through a gate after they all opened up on you can be nice as you just fly on the other side.

Larger ships have the power to kill you before getting back to the gate but your already fast enough to avoid them.

If you take anything into a big mixed blob your probly dead especially in a bubble. Haulers are no different.

So why use the rep bonus? Because dying to 1 or 2 T1 frigates will suck if you don't.
Also the closer the def of a ship gets to the dps output of the attacking ship the more your rep bonus does compared to an effective health number. Yes the health would help v.s. larger ships but if they are on you your probly dead anyway. The rep bonus gives this class of ship a decent chance v.s. a few frigs.

Remember these are for low sec and it's best to use them as such. Don't try to get through bubbles and blobs with them. If you need to do 0.0 moves best to use a jump freighter to get past hostile areas.

They are working as intended.


:facepalm:

If you get caught in a BR, you're doing it WRONG.

If you get caught by a frigate, there's a good chance it will have a scram and web, meaning you won't get back to the gate anytime soon. Assuming your blockade runner moves at 250 ms when webbed. You are 15 km away from the gate you need to get within 2500 m of it. Meaning you will have to travel 12.5 km to reach it. Let see how long it takes to slowboat toward it: 12,500 m / 250 m/s = 50 Seconds.

It will take you 50 seconds to reach the gate. Most likely those frigates will have buddies with them, making your rep bonus absolutely useless. Oh and they can't use frigates in lowsec since gate guns instapop them. If anything else other than a frig catches. e.g. sensor boosted legions you're toast.

Blockade runners don't have a lot of grid, therefore you won't be able to put much tank on it.

Oh and resist bonus also makes reps more effective. Taking less damage means you won't need to rep as much, therefore your reps are effectively able to tank more dps. Resist bonuses also are good for RR and Buffer.

Deep Space Transports should get a resist bonus instead of a repair bonus.

Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#26 - 2012-01-27 16:07:00 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
I use the rep bonuses and I find that the guys on battleclinic are very misleading on the subject as many don't do much trading/hauling.

The rep is great for getting past a few cheap frigs. Ussally the only kind of gangs fast enough to lock you down.
Getting back through a gate after they all opened up on you can be nice as you just fly on the other side.

Larger ships have the power to kill you before getting back to the gate but your already fast enough to avoid them.

If you take anything into a big mixed blob your probly dead especially in a bubble. Haulers are no different.

So why use the rep bonus? Because dying to 1 or 2 T1 frigates will suck if you don't.
Also the closer the def of a ship gets to the dps output of the attacking ship the more your rep bonus does compared to an effective health number. Yes the health would help v.s. larger ships but if they are on you your probly dead anyway. The rep bonus gives this class of ship a decent chance v.s. a few frigs.

Remember these are for low sec and it's best to use them as such. Don't try to get through bubbles and blobs with them. If you need to do 0.0 moves best to use a jump freighter to get past hostile areas.

They are working as intended.


This is about the worst post in S&M in awhile. If you get caught in a camp by "a few cheap frigs", you should die a firery death as you will be scrammed, and most likely have 4 or 5 webs on you. Your AB and obviously MWD will cease to do anything. No amount of active tanking is going to save you. The only thing that would save you is if they were all in ECM burst range and you cleared them out that way.

Not working as intended, and never have. They are the worst bonus on any ship in Eve by far.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#27 - 2012-01-27 16:12:33 UTC
active tank bonus helps when some little punk dictor nabs ya and is trying to solo you.
OninoTimmo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-01-27 16:33:17 UTC
Why not a cargohold bonus? They're already agile enough and warp fast enough and no other bonus makes it worth training Transport Ships past level 1? Before you cry OP it doesn't have to be a large bonus
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#29 - 2012-01-27 17:08:00 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
mxzf wrote:
GankuVerymuch wrote:
I agree agility on a BR would be a bit too much. But it's nice to see that I'm not the only one that noticed the active rep bonus is pretty useless.

Also I would love a second high slot. Strange Winmatar are the only ones that have one isn't it? But I don't want it to sound like another winmatar whine thread. Blink


It's also the only one that physically cannot carry a cruiser (10k m3) even with maxed out cargo and T2 rigs. It's a tradeoff.


Meaningless distinction if the destination allows you to manufacture and reproc with bearable efficiency.

A vexor is 4k m3 as mins and bpc.

425mm railguns offer 11:1 compression of mins I'm lead to believe. You can compare them to the battlecruiser you want to ship to figure out what ratio of guns and loose mins you need to move a stack of them, and then leave yourself some space for the fit modules too. If there is excess isogen or whatever, your BR is probably empty on the return trip anyway, can return that stuff to market loose.


So it's meaningless if you have the BPO, the required skills, a station / pos to build, and time on your hands to wait for the ship to be constructed.
Almost meaningless then.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#30 - 2012-01-27 18:29:01 UTC
Vile Coyote wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
mxzf wrote:
GankuVerymuch wrote:
I agree agility on a BR would be a bit too much. But it's nice to see that I'm not the only one that noticed the active rep bonus is pretty useless.

Also I would love a second high slot. Strange Winmatar are the only ones that have one isn't it? But I don't want it to sound like another winmatar whine thread. Blink


It's also the only one that physically cannot carry a cruiser (10k m3) even with maxed out cargo and T2 rigs. It's a tradeoff.


Meaningless distinction if the destination allows you to manufacture and reproc with bearable efficiency.

A vexor is 4k m3 as mins and bpc.

425mm railguns offer 11:1 compression of mins I'm lead to believe. You can compare them to the battlecruiser you want to ship to figure out what ratio of guns and loose mins you need to move a stack of them, and then leave yourself some space for the fit modules too. If there is excess isogen or whatever, your BR is probably empty on the return trip anyway, can return that stuff to market loose.


So it's meaningless if you have the BPO, the required skills, a station / pos to build, and time on your hands to wait for the ship to be constructed.
Almost meaningless then.



You don't need a bpo - cruiser bpcs fully researched for less than 200k, and industry 1, most characters have. A cruiser is unassembled in a BR, and pops out with no modules if you jettison, so you would need at least a hanger (cap or pos) to get the ship ready to use even if not brought in as mins.

Its pretty rare I would need only 1 cruiser in a place that needed a BR to get to, so I would be prone personally to wanting to move multiples this way in 1 trip. Yes a hac is less straight forward / less compressible.
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#31 - 2012-01-27 20:14:59 UTC
Tauranon wrote:

Its pretty rare I would need only 1 cruiser in a place that needed a BR to get to, so I would be prone personally to wanting to move multiples this way in 1 trip. Yes a hac is less straight forward / less compressible.


We agree there, usually if one cares enough to move a cruiser in a Transport, it's not a T1 cruiser.
Master Ventris
Rogue Pioneers
#32 - 2012-01-28 00:48:19 UTC
I believe the bonus is a legacy from before warp to 0 was implemented. It meant that they could tank null sec gate rats on approach to the gate.

But yeah, now its useless.
Katalci
Kismesis
#33 - 2012-01-30 08:18:49 UTC
Alua Oresson wrote:
Could be interesting to use one as a bait ship. I mean, could you see one running out of cap boosters?

87k EHP.
[Bustard, Surprise!]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Cynosural Field Generator I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-01-30 13:10:53 UTC
I agree the Rep/booster bonus is useless.

though agillaty is madness, if you're caught in a covert-opp BR in lowsec you are doing something wrong.
Even bubble camps in 0.0 give you a fair chance.

Problem is that the only usefull thing left if you remove speed and agility bonuses is cargo, which is about the only real drawback a BR has, not to mention the fact that it would make the already hardly used deep space transport even more useless.

So if you want to do something you should do the entire transport class.

Maybe give Deep space transports a bubble inmunity so there is a reason to use deep space transports in deepspace and a larger cargo bonus and give the BR a smal cargo bunus.
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