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Boycott the CSM selection process and vote
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2012-01-26 23:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
All voting systems are flawed in some way. The "direct/poll" voting system that you wave around as "better" is no exception to this.

How did you Veterans start?
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#22 - 2012-01-26 23:27:15 UTC
How can we get better represented in the CSM?

I know guys! Lets not vote!

so maintain the status quo...good idea OP
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-01-26 23:28:28 UTC
Vote Nicolo da'Vicenza for CSM7
Ban NPC Corps
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#24 - 2012-01-26 23:29:15 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Stupid question but... if we don't vote, and the null fiolks vote who they want in, don't we just lose?


No message, we just suffer for stupidity and lack of organization.


you are literally the one person outside of null sec that actually has a brain and understands this
met worst
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-01-26 23:31:08 UTC
Rene Fullchest wrote:
There is a HUGE problem with boycotts, or, more specifically, those that think that any boycott can ever actually achieve what they want it to.

The very fact that one thinks that they need a forum post to attempt to garner more who think thusly is evidence that a boycott can never work.

I don't care where you are from, but a simple study of general political science will tell you that calls for a boycott only work against your own self interests.

The ONLY to effect change is to participate.

So you'd rather vote in (and by proxy, support) a flawed system?

Seems to be an aggregate view coming out (of the predictables) that CCP can't think for themselves. The CSM is but one small part, but, after reading the latest minutes and listening to the "campaigning", one cannot help but feel that the biased and misguided belief that the CSM will be "majority representation" under the current system may well be skewing what the majority really want.

We simply do not know (and quite possibly never will) because the current process disallows any fair selection.
met worst
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-01-26 23:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: met worst
XXSketchxx wrote:
How can we get better represented in the CSM?

I know guys! Lets not vote!

so maintain the status quo...good idea OP

And what candidate would stand (and win) under the premise of falling on his own sword against the very system he despises?

Think man. All CSM members get in - all using the flawed method, one thinks the CSM should be restructured and they ALL vote to fall on their swords in agreeance.

How quaint.

ED: You must remember that the CSM is NOT the ruling body. CCP can make the call w/w/o your vote. They need a pretext to do so. An even lower vote count and lack of interest could be the grenade pin they need.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-01-26 23:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
met worst wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Vote for Newt Gingrich and he promises to give us the moon! Big smile

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/newt-gingrich-promises-build-moon-colony-2020-u-211103078.html

The other 6.8 billion people in the world don't agree

Or care.

Bit like CSM politics really.

But let's call it a democracy all the same shall we?


They will care when we put a giant layzor on it Cool





Also vote Darius III

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#28 - 2012-01-26 23:59:56 UTC
Just vote me in as a write in.

I promises to do sweet **** all for my entire term. Odds are pretty good I won't even be bothered to get on the Icelandic gravy train...er...plane.

I can't be bought because I'm already rich and frankly, I just don't give a **** about what any of you think. I only care about the needs of Mr. Epeen.

Actually, come to think of it, I'm pretty much like the current CSM..

As you were.

Mr EpeenCool
Bartholemu Fu-Baz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-01-27 00:00:17 UTC
met worst wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Stupid question but... if we don't vote, and the null fiolks vote who they want in, don't we just lose?

No message, we just suffer for stupidity and lack of organization.

An even greater lack of interest (than previously) let's CCP become aware (if they aren't already) that the CSM does NOT neccessarily represent the majority and reduces the CSM's belief it is a "representative entity".

This could force a better and fairer system. CCP is quite aware that there are issues. Maybe they need to understand how bad it really is.

Keep in mind this is my view and just like any political agenda, my stance is for doing nothing to prove the point.

Not simply doing something within a flawed system, calling it a democracy and be damned the consequences.





I suspect you'll need something a bit more aggressive than sitting and doing nothing during the voting process to "force" change. I think that's what people are trying to tell you.
Adunh Slavy
#30 - 2012-01-27 00:06:46 UTC
met worst wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Can we write in Ron Paul?

IBTL

/me googles Ron Paul and says...

"Only an American would think the rest of the world cares about American politics."

And wtf should thread be locked? You disagree or sumtin?



To the quote, he's the only one of the canidates that would stop dropping bombs and printing dollars, so yeah, it should matter to you. He's the American version of Dan Hannan and Nigel Farge.

As for the IBTL, politicis is a no-no on EveForums, so was a bit of foreshadowed sarcasm.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Rene Fullchest
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-01-27 00:14:33 UTC
met worst wrote:
Rene Fullchest wrote:
There is a HUGE problem with boycotts, or, more specifically, those that think that any boycott can ever actually achieve what they want it to.

The very fact that one thinks that they need a forum post to attempt to garner more who think thusly is evidence that a boycott can never work.

I don't care where you are from, but a simple study of general political science will tell you that calls for a boycott only work against your own self interests.

The ONLY to effect change is to participate.

So you'd rather vote in (and by proxy, support) a flawed system?

Seems to be an aggregate view coming out (of the predictables) that CCP can't think for themselves. The CSM is but one small part, but, after reading the latest minutes and listening to the "campaigning", one cannot help but feel that the biased and misguided belief that the CSM will be "majority representation" under the current system may well be skewing what the majority really want.

We simply do not know (and quite possibly never will) because the current process disallows any fair selection.


It is what it is.

I vote for those I feel will best represent my views. If I am in the majority, those people get in they will be representing me. If I wind up in the minority, I know that most people don't share my concerns.

That's how politics works. It really is just that simple.
met worst
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-01-27 00:18:51 UTC
Bartholemu Fu-Baz wrote:
met worst wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Stupid question but... if we don't vote, and the null fiolks vote who they want in, don't we just lose?

No message, we just suffer for stupidity and lack of organization.

An even greater lack of interest (than previously) let's CCP become aware (if they aren't already) that the CSM does NOT neccessarily represent the majority and reduces the CSM's belief it is a "representative entity".

This could force a better and fairer system. CCP is quite aware that there are issues. Maybe they need to understand how bad it really is.

Keep in mind this is my view and just like any political agenda, my stance is for doing nothing to prove the point.

Not simply doing something within a flawed system, calling it a democracy and be damned the consequences.





I suspect you'll need something a bit more aggressive than sitting and doing nothing during the voting process to "force" change. I think that's what people are trying to tell you.

I got that bit but read my post #26. The CSM is NOT the ruling party and the decision to have/not have a CSM is OUTSIDE of the CSMs control anyway. You'd need a majority vote within the CSM to change itself. Ain't gonna happen.

Ever seen a politician vote AGAINST a payrise/perk (based on "principles") and get supported by his peers?

Regardless, the ruling body, (CCP), can disband/remodel the CSM if the consensus shows lack of interest for whatever reason. It does NOT need the CSM to make the call - the motivation can come from external factors.
Ai Shun
#33 - 2012-01-27 00:29:11 UTC
met worst wrote:
We simply do not know (and quite possibly never will) because the current process disallows any fair selection.


I don't understand this.

Everyone can stand. They just need the support to do so. There are powerblocks that has the support; although I do not know how they mandate and enforce the votes of their members. But for now, let's assume they can control the entire block vote.

So what is the problem?

There is no feasible candidate standing that can attract the support and vote of the apathetic group that does not care enough to field a candidate. They must either be happy with the current status of things and happy with the direction or they do not care at all or they feel it is a pointless exercise.

Of those three potential reasons (There may be more) the first and the second is understandable. The third? It is stupid, because it would not be pointless if they actually had a candidate.

So what is the solution?

You need a single candidate that can stand and attract the vote of those who don't care about the whole thing. There is no flaw in the CSM, no flaw in the process. The flaw lies with those that don't give a flying ****. And you are painting it as if they do.
Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-01-27 00:35:19 UTC
I interpreted your thread title as "Boycott the CSM selection process by voting." With this much confusion, I'll wind up voting for Pat Buchanan.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-01-27 00:36:03 UTC
Doing nothing is how you ended up with the current body for CSM 6 you idiot.
ILikeMarkets
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-01-27 00:38:50 UTC
I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I do disagree with how you want to do it. This helps the 0.0 bears more than it helps us. Not voting is effectively the same as voting for a 0.0 player, as 0.0 corps WILL vote for their own. So if we don't vote, we just make sure there is no competition for them.

Proof that capital ships are rare in EVE: http://imgur.com/gallery/jJJE1
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#37 - 2012-01-27 01:21:38 UTC
met worst wrote:
If you truly think as I do that the CSM selection system is flawed, pointless and no more than a 0.0 boys club, don't stand, don't select and don't vote.

If CCP can see that the CSM is wasted effort for THE MAJORITY (as it always has been), emphasise the irrelevance by treating it like the festering sore it has become.

Force the issue to a fairer method of representation. Better to have no system than a bad system.

Show your disgust. DO NOTHING.





Or do this and get someone that would fight fo you elected!

The Voice of Reason Party

We can make this happen!

Issler
met worst
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-01-27 01:35:19 UTC
ILikeMarkets wrote:
I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I do disagree with how you want to do it. This helps the 0.0 bears more than it helps us. Not voting is effectively the same as voting for a 0.0 player, as 0.0 corps WILL vote for their own. So if we don't vote, we just make sure there is no competition for them.

And you don't think that CCP - as the executive body - is going to sit up and notice the lack of efficacy of the current system when no-one can be bothered voting? It MUST already be in their radar range!

Perhaps you're not seeing what I am saying - 0.0 can HAVE the CSM under the current structure. A minority group can only govern with the SUPPORT of the majority. The CSM is NOT a ruling body and can be dumped/remodelled/restructred IF and ONLY IF CCP have the pretext to do so.

NOT voting or even totally ignoring the process will disempower the CSM. Utterly. CCP will be forced to restructure. They cannot act upon anything the CSM puts forward and claim a mandate to do so with such minimal support.

TBH, supporting the current system by using it will only fuel the status quo. Which, in fairness, is fine if it should go that way. But the message about the efficacy of the CSM needs to be sent to the executive body, not the voters.

My stance and my view is to boycott and kill the current process for want of a better one.

It's a political campaign and policy in and of itself.

SUPPORT INACTION.
Vyl Vit
#39 - 2012-01-27 02:04:09 UTC
Vote for me for CSM! I'm oblivious to anyone else's needs!!

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#40 - 2012-01-27 02:09:49 UTC
Please indeed do not vote.

We'll do our best to take up the slack for you.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?