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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Fix for the gank found! :D

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Honnete Du Decimer
#121 - 2012-01-26 21:32:06 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Maybe suggest way to give real chance change gank outcome instead of shoot all idea down?


Maybe you need to have it emphasized more.
.


No. You ignore problem and say way to work with current mechanics. Is no use, problem and thread like this will come again and again.

PMS [:p]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#122 - 2012-01-26 21:34:35 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:

No. You ignore problem and say way to work with current mechanics. Is no use, problem and thread like this will come again and again.


Because there will be carebears who refuse to tank their ships or fly them properly again and again. And I will be here to tell them to learn to fly their ships and stop asking CCP for the solutions they already have access to... again. and. again.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Honnete Du Decimer
#123 - 2012-01-26 21:38:27 UTC
Merdi. Tank mean nothing. Alpha can destroy and cloak no work when target. There is hidden lock and fast lock.

PMS [:p]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#124 - 2012-01-26 21:44:37 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Merdi. Tank mean nothing. Alpha can destroy and cloak no work when target. There is hidden lock and fast lock.


A deep space transport can have a buffer of over 40-50k EHP. You need multiple battleships to alpha that, at which point it is no longer worth the price.

The Cloak+MWD trick does not care about fast targeting or hidden targeting. Simply use it whenever there is anything possibly threatening you and you're safe. T1 industrials can't pull it off (not enough powergrid for MWD), but they should never be used for high value transport anyway.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Honnete Du Decimer
#125 - 2012-01-26 22:12:43 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
[####].

PMS [:p]
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#126 - 2012-01-26 22:19:26 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Merdi. Tank mean nothing. Alpha can destroy and cloak no work when target. There is hidden lock and fast lock.


A deep space transport can have a buffer of over 40-50k EHP. You need multiple battleships to alpha that, at which point it is no longer worth the price.

The Cloak+MWD trick does not care about fast targeting or hidden targeting. Simply use it whenever there is anything possibly threatening you and you're safe. T1 industrials can't pull it off (not enough powergrid for MWD), but they should never be used for high value transport anyway.


That's 40-50K without sacrificing too much cargo capacity, either. A mastodon with 2x LSEs and a DCII, otherwise filled with cargohold mods and rigs, will have 45.6K EHP, and this is with 23K cargo.

...that's 5 tornados to alpha it.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#127 - 2012-01-26 22:20:11 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
[####].


what is this i don't even

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Honnete Du Decimer
#128 - 2012-01-26 22:45:01 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
... A mastodon ...


100M hull + +

Cargo scan ship one place, check value, blow away and they no see ambush.

PMS [:p]
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#129 - 2012-01-26 23:04:36 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
... A mastodon ...


100M hull + +

Cargo scan ship one place, check value, blow away and they no see ambush.


and the 5 tornados needed to alpha the thing would be at least 300-400m

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#130 - 2012-01-26 23:22:59 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
... A mastodon ...


100M hull + +

Cargo scan ship one place, check value, blow away and they no see ambush.


and the 5 tornados needed to alpha the thing would be at least 300-400m



You can get an Occator up over 150k EHP for less than 400m. You need ~20 tornados to gank that. With a bit more effort, you can get it over ~200k. Or use an Orca which also can get over 200k, and can hide valuable cargo perfectly.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#131 - 2012-01-26 23:57:50 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
... A mastodon ...


100M hull + +

Cargo scan ship one place, check value, blow away and they no see ambush.


and the 5 tornados needed to alpha the thing would be at least 300-400m



You can get an Occator up over 150k EHP for less than 400m. You need ~20 tornados to gank that. With a bit more effort, you can get it over ~200k. Or use an Orca which also can get over 200k, and can hide valuable cargo perfectly.


Or you can create a "Wah! CCP! Save me from making intelligent choices!" thread for... 0 ISK Bear

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#132 - 2012-01-27 00:01:54 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
... A mastodon ...


100M hull + +

Cargo scan ship one place, check value, blow away and they no see ambush.


and the 5 tornados needed to alpha the thing would be at least 300-400m



You can get an Occator up over 150k EHP for less than 400m. You need ~20 tornados to gank that. With a bit more effort, you can get it over ~200k. Or use an Orca which also can get over 200k, and can hide valuable cargo perfectly.


Or you can create a "Wah! CCP! Save me from making intelligent choices!" thread for... 0 ISK Bear


My suggestions are more effective per isk spent. (Depending on where you stand on dividing by 0)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#133 - 2012-01-27 02:10:41 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:


My suggestions are more effective per isk spent. (Depending on where you stand on dividing by 0)


^^ This made me laugh.....

The truth is, EvE is a game of risk vs reward. Doing something the most efficient way, is often the riskiest way. Part of the game is balancing this!!

Imagine my car is on the other side of a thief's road-block, and I want to store my expensive birthday presents in it. If I'm an unarmed weakling, should I:
  1. Run through the road-block and hope he doesn't take my stuff?
  2. Give it to my 150 kg martial arts buddy and let him take it through the road-block?
  3. Insure it with a professional courier and let them navigate the road-blockf?
  4. Hide the expensive stuff in my sock, so if I'm stopped and searched, they won't find anything worth taking... and might let me go unscathed.


All these options exist in EvE... It's not a perfect analogy, but the point is, reasonable options exist. Just because people ignore them is not a reason to nerf the thief (surely, he's got a wife and five kids to feed!!)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#134 - 2012-01-27 06:20:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


My suggestions are more effective per isk spent. (Depending on where you stand on dividing by 0)


^^ This made me laugh.....

The truth is, EvE is a game of risk vs reward. Doing something the most efficient way, is often the riskiest way. Part of the game is balancing this!!

Imagine my car is on the other side of a thief's road-block, and I want to store my expensive birthday presents in it. If I'm an unarmed weakling, should I:
  1. Run through the road-block and hope he doesn't take my stuff?
  2. Give it to my 150 kg martial arts buddy and let him take it through the road-block?
  3. Insure it with a professional courier and let them navigate the road-blockf?
  4. Hide the expensive stuff in my sock, so if I'm stopped and searched, they won't find anything worth taking... and might let me go unscathed.


All these options exist in EvE... It's not a perfect analogy, but the point is, reasonable options exist. Just because people ignore them is not a reason to nerf the thief (surely, he's got a wife and five kids to feed!!)


e. Stroll in without being aware there is a highwayman there at all. He might just be an innocent bystander standing on the side of the road with his knife out like that.

Edit: Then, complain about the lack of security in public at night, and propose to impeach the city council and the mayor.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#135 - 2012-01-27 06:28:56 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


My suggestions are more effective per isk spent. (Depending on where you stand on dividing by 0)


^^ This made me laugh.....

The truth is, EvE is a game of risk vs reward. Doing something the most efficient way, is often the riskiest way. Part of the game is balancing this!!

Imagine my car is on the other side of a thief's road-block, and I want to store my expensive birthday presents in it. If I'm an unarmed weakling, should I:
  1. Run through the road-block and hope he doesn't take my stuff?
  2. Give it to my 150 kg martial arts buddy and let him take it through the road-block?
  3. Insure it with a professional courier and let them navigate the road-blockf?
  4. Hide the expensive stuff in my sock, so if I'm stopped and searched, they won't find anything worth taking... and might let me go unscathed.


All these options exist in EvE... It's not a perfect analogy, but the point is, reasonable options exist. Just because people ignore them is not a reason to nerf the thief (surely, he's got a wife and five kids to feed!!)


e. Stroll in without being aware there is a highwayman there at all. He might just be an innocent bystander standing on the side of the road with his knife out like that.

Edit: Then, complain about the lack of security in public at night, and propose to impeach the city council and the mayor.


f. Shoot the thief, clear the roadblock, skip down the road whistling "Dixie"

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#136 - 2012-01-27 06:31:11 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
f. Shoot the thief, clear the roadblock, skip down the road whistling "Dixie"


You forgot taking the thief's stuff, then taking a picture of his dead body, all his belongings, yourself and your weapon, and then bragging to your friends with it.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#137 - 2012-01-27 06:32:45 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
f. Shoot the thief, clear the roadblock, skip down the road whistling "Dixie"


You forgot taking the thief's stuff, then taking a picture of his dead body, all his belongings, yourself and your weapon, and then bragging to your friends with it.


Couple of Photos of you teabagging his corpse wouldn't be out of place either.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Honnete Du Decimer
#138 - 2012-01-27 13:16:35 UTC
What risk?

Secret lock cargo ship when come out Amarr or Jita.
Scan cargo.
Good cargo? Tell gang on system exit gates "Shoot this one."

Boom! - is gone.

No risk, no warning, nothing - only dead and robbed.

PMS [:p]
Mag's
Azn Empire
#139 - 2012-01-27 15:12:39 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Eve is PvP centric and always has been. But some people think they know best and want it changed.


PVP is player versus player. Conflict. Gank is not fight. Gank is slaughter. You defend weak play. You defend exploit for poor design.
It's still PvP, whether you like it or not. I defend the game and how it was designed.
You don't like it's design and claim exploit where there isn't one, that's your weak argument and nothing else.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#140 - 2012-01-27 16:19:36 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
What risk?

Secret lock cargo ship when come out Amarr or Jita.
Scan cargo.
Good cargo? Tell gang on system exit gates "Shoot this one."

Boom! - is gone.

No risk, no warning, nothing - only dead and robbed.


He's are associated risks:
1.) They shoot it, and it survives because it's has enough tank --- then they lose ships and gain nothing.
2.) They destroy it, and NOTHING of value drops --- Then they lose ships and gain nothing.
3.) They scan ships for HOURS, and don't find any ships worth shooting -- Then they lose time and gain nothing.

Are the potential losses they suffer greater than the potential losses of a badger pilot that buts everything he owns into his ship loses it... no.

Did the badger pilot have options to limit the risks to his time and property, yes.

One core philosophy of EvE's is you have to mitigate the risks to your own assets. CCP will NOT protect you from gankers, they will NOT protect you from Scamemrs, they will NOT protect your assets from Thieves, and will NOT refund your ship when it's destroyed by Players. All CCP does is create tools and mechanics to allow the player methods and options to keep his stuff safe, but its up to the player to use those mechanics.