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the dumbing down of names to bring in new blood?

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Barakkus
#141 - 2012-01-26 20:34:40 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The less time you have to spend fighting the game, the more time you have left over to play it. Any simplification which increases the amount of time players can be interacting with each other, while keeping the interaction sufficiently interesting, is a good simplification.

Or, put another way, how good a player you are should be defined by how good your decisions are, not by how many tasks and lists you've memorized.

(We could add a window that doesn't let you undock until you can identify the NPC corp a random logo belongs to, and people could spend a lot of time learning all the logos, and become "really good" at "the undock quiz", but it would still be a terrible mechanic.)


"Quad LiF Fueled Booster Rockets" are now known as "Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
"Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters" are now known as "Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I"
"Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive" are now known as "Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I"

These are the meta mwd modules you usually go with. The prefix is different for all three sizes and are in no way aptly named. Limited sounds like something you'd rather not use, gotta be a downside with one of those.

How is this a simplification? You've traded one set of obfuscating names for another, confusing old players without helping new players one iota.


Yeah but now I don't have to remember where to put the damn dash in Y-T8, I always got that messed up.
The old names were just complication for complication sake, <3 the new names.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2012-01-26 20:46:01 UTC
IT IS OK IF THESE KINDS OF THINGS CAUSE ONLY 20% OF PEOPLE GET PISSED FROM WHICH ONLY 5% UNSUB!!!
IT'S NOT MUCH AND IS CLEARLY BETTER THAN HAVING NO PISSED PEOPLE.

True emoragers surf with caps lock on!

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2012-01-26 21:15:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Barakkus wrote:
Yeah but now I don't have to remember where to put the damn dash in Y-T8, I always got that messed up.
The old names were just complication for complication sake, <3 the new names.


No offense, seriously, but this reads as a confession of failure,
if you're not able to remember this simply, little thing ...

It takes like five seconds of conscious thinking to implant the right order into memory ...
OlRotGut
#144 - 2012-01-26 21:18:43 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Barakkus wrote:
Yeah but now I don't have to remember where to put the damn dash in Y-T8, I always got that messed up.
The old names were just complication for complication sake, <3 the new names.


No offense, seriously, but this reads as a confession of failure,
if you're not able to remember this simply, little thing ...




Why should he be forced to? Why does a game have to be nonsensical to most users to make it "hard-core" or "good".

Now I agree the new names leave somewhat to be desired; they are however, a step in the right direction in getting some uniformity for modules, searches, and ease of use. Now if we could just get the meta-level in the icon like the Tech II or faction stuff has.
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#145 - 2012-01-26 21:21:21 UTC
CCP Lemur wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
there is complexity that revolves around decisions and trade-offs.

then there is complexity that revolves around memorizing random stuff.

One type adds to the game, the other doesn't.


This fine lady hits the point home. Yes, people love the old names and we all got accustomed to them since back in the days. But I like the new system way better since I don't have to go through dozens of clicks and comparisons to find the thing I want. So no meaningful complexity at all is lost only a naming scheme that was based on randomness alone.


You could just memorise the names and effects of modules and gain an 'advantage' over other players. This is what is supposed to happen in immersive and 'complex' games. You don't even grasp what people are trying to 'get at' here.

Lol @ those trying to argue that majority rule is a good idea... Most people are not able to look at the big picture.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2012-01-26 21:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
Complex = more playing time before dying to boredom
Simple = less playing time before dying to boredom.
Complex = more variety in loot
Simple = less variety in loot
Complex = takes practise to master
Simple = anyone can master right away
Complex = More rewarding over time
Simple = More boring over time
Complex = Gives opportunities to those who study and learn
Simple = Takes opportunities away from those who have learned
Complex = Less people doing business with
Simple = More people doing business with
Complex = What eve is about and why people keep playing it day after day.
Simple = Boring and doesn't belong to game where everyone try to find ways to be more efficient in complex world.
Epic Subscription Mass murder = Trying to change complex to simple.

This is our game - you devs are here to make it better, but it is not your call to decide what is best for us. Stop forcing s*it!

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Barakkus
#147 - 2012-01-26 21:29:04 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Barakkus wrote:
Yeah but now I don't have to remember where to put the damn dash in Y-T8, I always got that messed up.
The old names were just complication for complication sake, <3 the new names.


No offense, seriously, but this reads as a confession of failure,
if you're not able to remember this simply, little thing ...

It takes like five seconds of conscious thinking to implant the right order into memory ...


Good software design is based on usability. There's no need to try and remember useless things like what a Catalyzed Cold Jet Arc Trustmasterthingamabob and a Lif Fueled Catalyst Cold Jet Arc Thrusmasterthingamambob and which is an afterburner, which is a microwarpdrive and which is a cruiser/frigate/battleship module. There's something to be said for usability. Having to remember where to put the dash in something like that is just another example of useless complication.

I always hated trying to figure out what missiles I needed to get out of hangars unless I had list view or icon view turned on for the container so I could see the colors to figure out the damage types instead of having to right click > show info all the time. I don't use missiles very often and having arbitrary and inconsistent naming made it just that more irritating to figure it out.

They really need to work on more conformity in naming conventions. The use of 'Prototype' and 'Scout' needs some love too.

Usability > random, inconsistent names

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
Barakkus
#148 - 2012-01-26 21:31:55 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
The renaming of modules does not bother me one bit. I understand why and agree with the changes.

What I think would be a nice addition is the ability to sort by meta level and an option to turn on "Show meta level" that would put the meta level in the lower left of all item icons.

This would allow everyone to have their cake and eat it too.


That's already in there btw, they added meta level to the container view over a year ago. Just right click in the container headers to turn it on. Made my life so much easier when sorting garbage from decent mods when I used to mission.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2012-01-26 21:53:30 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Complex = more playing time before dying to boredom
Simple = less playing time before dying to boredom.
Complex = more variety in loot
Simple = less variety in loot
Complex = takes practise to master
Simple = anyone can master right away
Complex = More rewarding over time
Simple = More boring over time
Complex = Gives opportunities to those who study and learn
Simple = Takes opportunities away from those who have learned
Complex = Less people doing business with
Simple = More people doing business with
Complex = What eve is about and why people keep playing it day after day.
Simple = Boring and doesn't belong to game where everyone try to find ways to be more efficient in complex world.
Epic Subscription Mass murder = Trying to change complex to simple.

This is our game - you devs are here to make it better. It is not your call to decide what is best for us.

Please stop confusing tedium for complexity. Also it should be clear at this point that there are many who like the general direction this is going. There are plenty of actual mechanics to make the game complex, and that is where the complexity should be. Simple naming does not mean a simple game.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#150 - 2012-01-26 21:55:01 UTC
Barakkus wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Barakkus wrote:
Yeah but now I don't have to remember where to put the damn dash in Y-T8, I always got that messed up.
The old names were just complication for complication sake, <3 the new names.


No offense, seriously, but this reads as a confession of failure,
if you're not able to remember this simply, little thing ...

It takes like five seconds of conscious thinking to implant the right order into memory ...


Good software design is based on usability. There's no need to try and remember useless things like what a Catalyzed Cold Jet Arc Trustmasterthingamabob and a Lif Fueled Catalyst Cold Jet Arc Thrusmasterthingamambob and which is an afterburner, which is a microwarpdrive and which is a cruiser/frigate/battleship module. There's something to be said for usability. Having to remember where to put the dash in something like that is just another example of useless complication.

I always hated trying to figure out what missiles I needed to get out of hangars unless I had list view or icon view turned on for the container so I could see the colors to figure out the damage types instead of having to right click > show info all the time. I don't use missiles very often and having arbitrary and inconsistent naming made it just that more irritating to figure it out.

They really need to work on more conformity in naming conventions. The use of 'Prototype' and 'Scout' needs some love too.

Usability > random, inconsistent names

They could have just added the meta number and module type to the name. Someone said that had already been suggested in feature and idea-threads. What was the possible downsides of that solution?
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2012-01-26 22:21:13 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:

A 'nova' is also a cataclysmic nuclear explosion in a star.
Not to be confused with supernova, which is just a much, much, much more powerful variety.



Right, and why is it called that? because ancient people thought it was a NEW star being was born in the sky.

Literally, they were saying "Hey, look at that NEW STAR in the sky!" because the reaction made it glow brightly. They weren't saying, "Hey! That cataclysmic reaction in that star is really making it glow brightly."


Nova means "new" to all romance languages first, way before it means anything else. This game isn't made only for English Speakers.

EVE is a game in space.
'Nova' is still a modern term for a nuclear explosion on a star.
It is also a very sci-fi name.
It fits.

No one cares about the Latin origins Roll
You could not complain about anything more pointless.
How about you complain about the Catalyst for a while? OH NOES THE GALLENTE SHIP CLEARLY ISN'T A SUBSTANCE WHICH SPEEDS UP A CHEMICAL REACTION WITHOUT BEING USED ITSELF. LET'S MAKE A THREAD.

Also, you're arguing against yourself. Piranha missiles have even less to do with explosions. The new missile names are more fitting than the previous ones Lol
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#152 - 2012-01-26 22:26:01 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Dumbing down eve requires removing water from the pool.

CCP has done no such thing in this manner.

They only changed the pool filters to get rid of some of the random stuff floating in the pool.


that's just not true.

it's more challenging to swim thru that pool whilst dodging the random stuff, therefore removing some of the random stuff effectively dumbs down the process of swimming thru said pool.

try again. Evil



The stuffs liquid.... it aint like the sea mines that SnI is.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#153 - 2012-01-26 22:31:19 UTC
Swimming in a dirty pool doesn't prove you're adept at swimming. It only proves you have no hygiene.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Adunh Slavy
#154 - 2012-01-26 22:56:36 UTC
Hrm ... does simplification of names dumb down Eve ... Depends on how you look at it I suppose. It does make it simpler to understand what a module does by the name, so in that sense it is "dumbed down". But it is also silly to name something with an obscure name that is not very descriptive.

One does not name a pumpkin pie, "October Orange Surprise Pie", that name would be non-descriptive, misleading and "dumb". "Pumpkin Pie" is much more informative and "intelligent", though must admit it keeps stupid people from expecting citrus based treats during Fall.

If CCP ever names pulse lasers as "Short Range Anti-Sansha Guns", they have clearly gone too far down the slope of over simplification.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2012-01-26 23:02:11 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Complex = more playing time before dying to boredom
Simple = less playing time before dying to boredom.
Complex = more variety in loot
Simple = less variety in loot
Complex = takes practise to master
Simple = anyone can master right away
Complex = More rewarding over time
Simple = More boring over time
Complex = Gives opportunities to those who study and learn
Simple = Takes opportunities away from those who have learned
Complex = Less people doing business with
Simple = More people doing business with
Complex = What eve is about and why people keep playing it day after day.
Simple = Boring and doesn't belong to game where everyone try to find ways to be more efficient in complex world.
Epic Subscription Mass murder = Trying to change complex to simple.

This is our game - you devs are here to make it better. It is not your call to decide what is best for us.

Please stop confusing tedium for complexity. Also it should be clear at this point that there are many who like the general direction this is going. There are plenty of actual mechanics to make the game complex, and that is where the complexity should be. Simple naming does not mean a simple game.


Even there are many who would want to drive their car on other side of the road, it's not very bright idea when you think about everyone involved.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2012-01-26 23:18:59 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
IT IS OK IF THESE KINDS OF THINGS CAUSE ONLY 20% OF PEOPLE GET PISSED FROM WHICH ONLY 5% UNSUB!!!
IT'S NOT MUCH AND IS CLEARLY BETTER THAN HAVING NO PISSED PEOPLE.

True emoragers surf with caps lock on!


You are batshit insane if you believe 60,000 people give a serious damn about these changes.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2012-01-26 23:36:46 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Complex = more playing time before dying to boredom
Simple = less playing time before dying to boredom.
Complex = more variety in loot
Simple = less variety in loot
Complex = takes practise to master
Simple = anyone can master right away
Complex = More rewarding over time
Simple = More boring over time
Complex = Gives opportunities to those who study and learn
Simple = Takes opportunities away from those who have learned
Complex = Less people doing business with
Simple = More people doing business with
Complex = What eve is about and why people keep playing it day after day.
Simple = Boring and doesn't belong to game where everyone try to find ways to be more efficient in complex world.
Epic Subscription Mass murder = Trying to change complex to simple.

This is our game - you devs are here to make it better. It is not your call to decide what is best for us.

Please stop confusing tedium for complexity. Also it should be clear at this point that there are many who like the general direction this is going. There are plenty of actual mechanics to make the game complex, and that is where the complexity should be. Simple naming does not mean a simple game.


Even there are many who would want to drive their car on other side of the road, it's not very bright idea when you think about everyone involved.

This argument works just as much against you as for you. To each of us it's the other one that seems to be on the wrong side of the road. I'm a fan of complex systems made from meaningful choices, but not tedious systems requiring investment of time or effort with no real return. Having to stall for a moment because I can't remember what the explosive heavy missile is called is not an asset to the game experience. I'd rather be fitting/flying/planning/playing the game in general than memorizing nondescript names with no real scheme. Tedium is boring, memorizing random things is tedious. It's not intelligent, thought provoking or beneficial. We need less of that.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2012-01-26 23:46:48 UTC
Are you guys out of your minds ?

Talking about "being forced" and "usability" and whatever.

Barrakus, you lame ass are using stupid excuses for not being willing/able
to use your brains for damn FIVE seconds ! One conscious thought !

Do you wonder why people everywhere get more and more stupid ?

The reason for this, you can find easily !

You only have to look into the mirror !
Tyraeil Starblade
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#159 - 2012-01-26 23:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyraeil Starblade
Grey Stormshadow wrote:

Complex = more playing time before dying to boredom
Simple = less playing time before dying to boredom.
Complex = more variety in loot
Simple = less variety in loot
Complex = takes practise to master
Simple = anyone can master right away
Complex = More rewarding over time
Simple = More boring over time
Complex = Gives opportunities to those who study and learn
Simple = Takes opportunities away from those who have learned
Complex = Less people doing business with
Simple = More people doing business with
Complex = What eve is about and why people keep playing it day after day.
Simple = Boring and doesn't belong to game where everyone try to find ways to be more efficient in complex world.
Epic Subscription Mass murder = Trying to change complex to simple.

This is our game - you devs are here to make it better, but it is not your call to decide what is best for us. Stop forcing s*it!


I'm assuming the OP and most of the haters in this thread haven't heard the adage: "Brevity is the soul of wit."

Also, I don't understand why people are mad about simplicity. You know, simplicity isn't a dirty word. There's a lot of elegance that is harder to attain in simple systems versus overwrought and unintuitive ones.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2012-01-26 23:47:18 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Complex = more playing time before dying to boredom
Simple = less playing time before dying to boredom.
Complex = more variety in loot
Simple = less variety in loot
Complex = takes practise to master
Simple = anyone can master right away
Complex = More rewarding over time
Simple = More boring over time
Complex = Gives opportunities to those who study and learn
Simple = Takes opportunities away from those who have learned
Complex = Less people doing business with
Simple = More people doing business with
Complex = What eve is about and why people keep playing it day after day.
Simple = Boring and doesn't belong to game where everyone try to find ways to be more efficient in complex world.
Epic Subscription Mass murder = Trying to change complex to simple.

This is our game - you devs are here to make it better. It is not your call to decide what is best for us.

Please stop confusing tedium for complexity. Also it should be clear at this point that there are many who like the general direction this is going. There are plenty of actual mechanics to make the game complex, and that is where the complexity should be. Simple naming does not mean a simple game.


Even there are many who would want to drive their car on other side of the road, it's not very bright idea when you think about everyone involved.

This argument works just as much against you as for you. To each of us it's the other one that seems to be on the wrong side of the road. I'm a fan of complex systems made from meaningful choices, but not tedious systems requiring investment of time or effort with no real return. Having to stall for a moment because I can't remember what the explosive heavy missile is called is not an asset to the game experience. I'd rather be fitting/flying/planning/playing the game in general than memorizing nondescript names with no real scheme. Tedium is boring, memorizing random things is tedious. It's not intelligent, thought provoking or beneficial. We I need less of that.


if you have problems memorizing stuff over time (which will btw happen without even trying), get some friends. That way you can ask from some experienced pilot who knows their stuff. That is called interaction in MMORPG (Massively multiplayer online role-playing game). If you don't like MMORPG style of game play, there is always home world or similar games where the learning curve is lower and interaction is usually limited to talking with yourself.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest