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Fix for the gank found! :D

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Valei Khurelem
#101 - 2012-01-26 17:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Quote:
Sorry, but the game is not how the video made it out to be. Maybe this is where a lot of the aggro comes from?


I think it is the case that CCP falsely advertise any kind of skill or free flight mechanics that work in this game at all, if you look at the trailers they're nothing like what the actual game is most of the time, that said though, MMORPG games companies in particular use these kind of tactics with cinematic trailers in order to sucker people in to buying it.

It's a shame they don't spend more time on the actual game making it like how they want it to be rather than dicking people about all the time and making promises they don't keep.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#102 - 2012-01-26 17:47:14 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:
Sorry, but the game is not how the video made it out to be. Maybe this is where a lot of the aggro comes from?


I think it is the case that CCP falsely advertise any kind of skill or free flight mechanics that work in this game at all, if you look at the trailers they're nothing like what the actual game is most of the time, that said though, MMORPG games companies in particular use these kind of tactics with cinematic trailers in order to sucker people in to buying it.

It's a shame they don't spend more time on the actual game making it like how they want it to be rather than dicking people about all the time and making promises they don't keep.

The Dominion trailer was good in this respect. There's little fancy "lookit me, I'm doing cool flying" and more "suddenly... HOTDROP" and "OHGODTHATDOOMSDAY".

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Honnete Du Decimer
#103 - 2012-01-26 18:28:58 UTC
Akatenshi Xi wrote:
As it stands a lot of ships can't stand a suicide gank period. ...


No see problem with this?

PMS [:p]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#104 - 2012-01-26 18:41:48 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Akatenshi Xi wrote:
As it stands a lot of ships can't stand a suicide gank period. ...


No see problem with this?

Nope. There's always going to be a bigger ship (or collection of ships) that is able to instantly kill you. It's the alpha game. It's up to the person flying the ganked ship to ensure that it is not profitable, not fun, and overall not worth it for people to gank him.

This includes fitting a tank to make ganks harder, not flying inappropriately expensive goods in cheap/weak ships, and shielding transported goods from scanning via the "double wrap" trick.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Honnete Du Decimer
#105 - 2012-01-26 18:47:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Honnete Du Decimer
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Nope. There's always going to be a bigger ship (or collection of ships) that is able to instantly kill you. It's the alpha game. It's up to the person flying the ganked ship to ensure that it is not profitable, not fun, and overall not worth it for people to gank him.

This includes fitting a tank to make ganks harder, not flying inappropriately expensive goods in cheap/weak ships, and shielding transported goods from scanning via the "double wrap" trick.


This happen for MMO but you stand in door and only 1 maybe 2 people reach you. You in tank behind hill can shell many. There no way for one in EVE but there way for RL one or few to defeat many.

I am see something about make lock time more slow when other people lock you. I think this good mechanic. Zerg is rubbish.

PMS [:p]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#106 - 2012-01-26 18:58:52 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:

This happen for MMO but you stand in door and only 1 maybe 2 people reach you. You in tank behind hill can shell many. There no way for one in EVE but there way for RL one or few to defeat many.

I am see something about make lock time more slow when other people lock you. I think this good mechanic. Zerg is rubbish.

There are ways to take on multiple people as one person. If you're fast and have the range (like a Vagabond or a Cynabal) you can do "drive-by" shootings to pick off their weaker targets.

You can also draw off their tacklers and kill them before their "heavy firepower" gets there to help them.

You can also do gate-jumping games. Let most of them aggro you, then jump through and take on the 1-2 who were able to follow you.

You likely won't be able to kill all of them, but you can win a battle of attrition. "1 vs many" is not an easy fight, but it is possible.

You can also count it as a victory if you deny them a kill (by not dying to a suicide gank, for example). If you survive a suicide gank, you could also be evil and have a small gun fitted on your hauler, and shoot back while CONCORD kills them. That way, you get a kill.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Honnete Du Decimer
#107 - 2012-01-26 19:04:13 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
...
There are ways to take on multiple people as one person. If you're fast and have the range (like a Vagabond or a Cynabal) you can do "drive-by" shootings to pick off their weaker targets.
...


Is only work for newbs. You no can warp disrupt so far so just warp away.

Rest - yes, true. We are go around main point and main reason these thread always come. You are no talk anything for fix that.

PMS [:p]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#108 - 2012-01-26 19:06:37 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
...
There are ways to take on multiple people as one person. If you're fast and have the range (like a Vagabond or a Cynabal) you can do "drive-by" shootings to pick off their weaker targets.
...


Is only work for newbs. You no can warp disrupt so far so just warp away.


Overheated Warp Disruptor II disrupts to 28 km. When you have a cruiser that goes 2500+ m/s non-overheated and can kill interdictors in only a few shots, you can get some pretty sweet kills. It's very risky, though.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Velicitia
XS Tech
#109 - 2012-01-26 19:29:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:
Sorry, but the game is not how the video made it out to be. Maybe this is where a lot of the aggro comes from?


I think it is the case that CCP falsely advertise any kind of skill or free flight mechanics that work in this game at all, if you look at the trailers they're nothing like what the actual game is most of the time, that said though, MMORPG games companies in particular use these kind of tactics with cinematic trailers in order to sucker people in to buying it.

It's a shame they don't spend more time on the actual game making it like how they want it to be rather than dicking people about all the time and making promises they don't keep.



Most of the trailers look like they make use of the "advanced camera controls" option -- it lets you anchor the camera to something, but have it watch something else (so you can have flybys and the other stuff that's in the trailers). Though, yes they do use cinematic scenes where you most likely can't get those angles (e.g. the CQ from the crucible trailer).


The other thing is, they can re-run the same 4 second scene 97 times to get the shot "just right", whereas we don't get that luxury (unless, ofc, we're making a video with our mates, and don't kill each other at every "take").

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2012-01-26 19:39:02 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:
Sorry, but the game is not how the video made it out to be. Maybe this is where a lot of the aggro comes from?


I think it is the case that CCP falsely advertise any kind of skill or free flight mechanics that work in this game at all, if you look at the trailers they're nothing like what the actual game is most of the time, that said though, MMORPG games companies in particular use these kind of tactics with cinematic trailers in order to sucker people in to buying it.

It's a shame they don't spend more time on the actual game making it like how they want it to be rather than dicking people about all the time and making promises they don't keep.



Most of the trailers look like they make use of the "advanced camera controls" option -- it lets you anchor the camera to something, but have it watch something else (so you can have flybys and the other stuff that's in the trailers). Though, yes they do use cinematic scenes where you most likely can't get those angles (e.g. the CQ from the crucible trailer).



They have both the advanced camera controls, as well as much tighter control of all of the ships running around, and can of course film stuff from many angles at once to get the coolest possible angle.
Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2012-01-26 19:45:02 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:
Sorry, but the game is not how the video made it out to be. Maybe this is where a lot of the aggro comes from?


I think it is the case that CCP falsely advertise any kind of skill or free flight mechanics that work in this game at all, if you look at the trailers they're nothing like what the actual game is most of the time, that said though, MMORPG games companies in particular use these kind of tactics with cinematic trailers in order to sucker people in to buying it.

It's a shame they don't spend more time on the actual game making it like how they want it to be rather than dicking people about all the time and making promises they don't keep.


Hang on...

You are just no finding out that the trailers for things are not like the real things ?

Welcome to the world dude.

All games makes themselves look way better than they are to play. So do adverts. So do movie trailers.

It's not false advertising, they just want you to see 'the best' of what they have to offer, so you buy them. Why do think the single from an album is always the best track ? And why do you think most WoW adverts are totally unrelated to gameplay ? Because if you just showed normal people pictures of people standing still and pressing the attack button then it would make the game look terrible.

The point about eve's trailers is that they show how the game is inside your head. If you've ever been in a big fleet op where theres warping around and jumping caps and counter drops and stuff, it feels exactly like that. It feels awesome, even though you spend most of your time zoomed right out and not even seeing whats happening on field.
Honnete Du Decimer
#112 - 2012-01-26 20:04:41 UTC
Quick fix is max 30% eHP for alpha. Need 4+ people for instant gank.

PMS [:p]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#113 - 2012-01-26 20:10:50 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Quick fix is max 30% eHP for alpha. Need 4+ people for instant gank.


Why yes, I do want to promote more blobbing too.

No.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Honnete Du Decimer
#114 - 2012-01-26 20:13:43 UTC
4+ ships suicide ... less chance gank worth do and more chance change outcome if not many. Also, need some skill and co-ordinate - not shoot ducks like is now.

PMS [:p]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#115 - 2012-01-26 20:22:51 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
4+ ships suicide ... less chance gank worth do and more chance change outcome if not many. Also, need some skill and co-ordinate - not shoot ducks like is now.


A few reasons why this would be a bad idea:


  • It doesn't work because people will just start using more autocannons, blasters, and drones for suicide ganking (which can get off 4+ shots)
  • It nerfs solo play a lot. If you have an enemy trapped in a station and are sitting outside in your arty Hurricane waiting to kill him,
    • he can re-dock twice over by the time it takes you to fire 4 shots.
  • It nerfs anti-support roles in big fleets, and gives fast tacklers an unnecessary buff (you'd be able to charge headfirst at an arty ship and not even care)
  • It makes arty useless.
  • It makes no sense. Why would six 720mm shells not be able to kill a shuttle 50m long in one shot? Or, even less sensically, a barrage of eight 1400mm shells?


Many of these "simple changes" are not that "simple". The simplest thing is for industrials to just fit tanks, but we all know that won't happen.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Honnete Du Decimer
#116 - 2012-01-26 20:32:59 UTC
Nothing make sense in submarine space.

PMS [:p]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#117 - 2012-01-26 20:37:00 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Nothing make sense in submarine space.

Thank you for that deep, well-researched and well-reasoned answer. Your logic surpasses and transcends all need for an argument, and I lie here completely broken and with absolute conviction that your point of view is clearly the superior one.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Honnete Du Decimer
#118 - 2012-01-26 21:05:11 UTC
Maybe suggest way to give real chance change gank outcome instead of shoot all idea down?

PMS [:p]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#119 - 2012-01-26 21:28:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Maybe suggest way to give real chance change gank outcome instead of shoot all idea down?


Maybe you need to have it emphasized more.

Petrus Blackshell wrote:
A 1-week old character cannot kill a Hulk unless the Hulk pilot is an absolute failure and flies a 100% untanked Hulk. Put a couple invulns in those spare midslots. See suicide gankers be sad.


Ranger 1 wrote:

1: If your activities are being done in a vessel capable of resisting attack for a time, fit it to that end instead of for maximum short term profit.

2: If your activities require a ship that is basically indefensable (the more common occurance) your objective is to be aware of the approach of potential threats and evading them before they can attack... using the plethora of tools at your disposal to do so.


baltec1 wrote:
The tank on a T2 hauler is so good I would happily go up againts just about anything solo if only it had a gun slot.


Ranger 1 wrote:
I believe his point was that even the lowly Itty 5 (and lets face it, few people that use a hauler can't fly one of these) can be fit to withstand a typical gank attempt quite nicely.


I don't like endless and pointless repetition, but I will state how existing in-game mechanics can save you from a suicide gank:


  • Fit a tank
  • Use the right ship for the right task
  • Use intel to know what's coming
  • Use the cloak-MWD trick
  • Use the double-wreapping trick
  • hink about what you do and learn from mistakes


Believe it or not, suicide ganking requires more skill than mindless point-and-shoot. Similarly, hauling does too. There are tricks to doing both correctly. What a concept, requiring player skill to be safe/successful!

Nothing is broken about suicide ganking. Move along and learn to play.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#120 - 2012-01-26 21:30:57 UTC
CCP, please use a proper BBCode parser. Until then, my post is here: http://pastebin.com/r6fMhY8G

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)