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Player Owned Customs Office: Your feedback on the past month

First post
Author
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#161 - 2012-01-26 09:00:31 UTC
A couple nights ago, we started seeding fights by reinforcing a couple POCOs, and one of the owners retaliated by reinforcing one of our friendly COs. All three timers finished yesterday within two hours of each other. The result was a lot of running around, one big gang brawl at one POCO, two careless dreads ganked at the other, and two offices dead (one on each side).

To quote a fellow pirate "these POCOs are the best thing CCP has done for lowsec in years". They create big fights away from gates and stations, which are more fun and more deadly.

The main problem with POCO combat that I see is how hard it is to defend them vs attacking them. This is a recurring problem with all structure fights.

If the defending fleet wants to repair the customs office, they have to bring shield transporters. This forces them to either bring a shield-only fleet, or somehow compromise their fighting ability by bringing shield logistics to an armor fleet. This doesn't matter much in a huge fleet, but for a small-medium one, it can be a huge deal.

Also, the unresisted HP is very rep unfriendly. A single T2 large transporter repairs 85 hp/s, so a logistics with 4 of them repairs 340 hp/s. A battleship, on the other hand will have around 2-3 times that dps. So repairing COs takes longer and is more boring than shooting them.

This leads more and more to winning the fight over the customs office, then not bothering to rep, which ends with the POCO dead a few hours later to a couple patient ships. Not a problem if you are using them to bait fights, as you can always just anchor a replacement, but can be an issue if you want to recover your investment (no, loot doesn't really count for that).

Fixing those issues for good would require a rethink of the structure siege model, I suspect.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#162 - 2012-01-26 14:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nekopyat


Well, that kinda describes dreads in game already, well, at least dreads with no history. I imagine if EvE worked like the real world there would be all sorts of intermediate and prototype ship designs floating around.

Though now I am having happy memories of putting BS guns on my 'cane... simply because I could.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#163 - 2012-01-26 15:17:30 UTC
Nekopyat wrote:


Well, that kinda describes dreads in game already, well, at least dreads with no history. I imagine if EvE worked like the real world there would be all sorts of intermediate and prototype ship designs floating around.

Though now I am having happy memories of putting BS guns on my 'cane... simply because I could.


Yeah, it does, doesn't it. Funny that.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#164 - 2012-01-26 19:38:22 UTC
Small/Med size corps are at a greater disadvantage. Having a POCO is like painting a big target on your back for wardecs

I was going to launch on with my alt's indy corp. But thought better of it.

FC, what do?

Tierius Fro
Coronado's Cross
#165 - 2012-01-26 19:46:37 UTC
I do not like how the "cargo bay" works. I have factory planets that produced advanced items and with each load I sent down 10k M3 worth of mats. Before I do that I send up my advanced items and any leftover mats. If I have leftover mats in the custom office that i just brought up from the surface and I load my 10k M3 batch into the customs office (which I have to do because my hauler is just over 10K), then it automatically stacks everything. And so I cannot just send everything down because it is over 10k. I now have to juggle the mats back and forth between my hauler and the customs office, so nothing stacks and messes up my 10K batch.

Be nice if the customs office behaved just like cargo bay, in that it does not automatically stack.

Sorry, did not read this entire thread to see if this has been mentioned.

Fro

http://ridingevewormhole.blogspot.com/

corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2012-01-27 09:36:39 UTC
it has added a few options to wh space you have something to hit now if peopel pos up as a bit of a FU to them for not fighting and gives you the potential to wait and take them out or just chain collaspe leave a scanner in and come back next day
Gustavus Adolphus
Croatoan Enterprises
#167 - 2012-02-08 11:29:59 UTC
CCP, any more updates for this FAIL, or is it just being quietly pushed aside, payoff for Mega Corp PVP, mission completed, mission success.
Salcon Cliff
Zephyr Corp
V.A.S.T.
#168 - 2012-02-08 15:28:57 UTC
As a w-space corp, we have found the new POCOs to be quite nice. We have a fairly low tax rate (but not zero) which allows us to fund the POS fuel. The savings in taxes has been huge. So far, no one has tried to assault our POCOs, but we should have a significant force available to defend them if someone does.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
Feign Disorder
#169 - 2012-02-12 06:18:15 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Hello and a happy new year!

We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.

Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.

1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?

2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?

3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?

4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?

5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?


Best regards
CCP Omen


1. The NPC custom offices have too much ehp. it's not fun bashing them. TIMERs can be a huge issue and i'm usually asleep when they come out of rienforcment mode.

2. I personaly had several fights over them. I'd rather fight over a poco then a pos.

3. Yes i do.

4. PI I would say has become more relevent.

5. nope not here though some fights over them.
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#170 - 2012-02-13 18:13:05 UTC
As an independent dealing in low-sec PI, it's been business as usual for me. The change in plan to implement the IB COs was key to keeping things running smoothly for me, thanks go out to CCP for that. No bugs to speak of, no camps of death waiting for me, but no epic stories to tell either.

2 of the 5 planets I work from have had the IB CO replaced with POCOs. One is offering a 10% tax rate, the other has a 17% tax rate. I've not run into any issues with having a planet's CO destroyed and not immediately replaced.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#171 - 2012-02-17 15:02:55 UTC
Just a bump as I 'd like to continue seeing people post their opinions on this topic.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2012-03-09 04:14:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Andre Vauban
Seriously, give the POCOs some resists. It takes longer to repair a POCO than it does to reinforce it.

.

Kile Kitmoore
#173 - 2012-03-09 19:01:51 UTC
POCO's are great, anything player made and destroyed is a good idea. Heck take it a step further and make Command Center's player made!

The one thing I really hate however is the absolute lack of communication about the status of a planet I am on which I don't own the POCO. If the POCO owner changes taxes, you are in the dark until you visit it. If the POCO is attacked, you can't even try to help the owner defend it. Some type of notification system would be helpful.

Let the owner name the custom office and maybe even give it a BIO type screen so the owner can leave messages for existing or future tenants.

While on the subject of PI, time to consider some new products PI can produce or more uses for the crap stuff that are hardly used.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#174 - 2012-03-10 09:17:13 UTC
Kile Kitmoore wrote:

While on the subject of PI, time to consider some new products PI can produce or more uses for the crap stuff that are hardly used.


Such as implants!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=900908#post900908

Which would be a good way to create demand for a lot of the "biological" PI ingredients which don't get used for much else. Those blueprints should also pull in ingredients from other supply sources such as T1 salvage (more "unwanted" stuff that could use a boost in demand), advanced materials from moon (fullerides, carbides, etc) and even regular T1 minerals.

Nothing added down the road should ever pull from a single supply source. By pulling even trace amounts from other areas of the game you ensure that the market continues to be strange and wonderful.

(Implant blueprints should probably only be done as BPCs - which will allow them to be dropped as loot from rats / exploration or sold by the LP stores, without flooding the market long-term.)
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#175 - 2012-03-10 12:22:10 UTC
Kile Kitmoore wrote:

While on the subject of PI, time to consider some new products PI can produce or more uses for the crap stuff that are hardly used.


If we can't hope for new sources of demand for the out of favor PI products, then please let us reprocess them to make something useful. It's painful seeing the markets flooded with junk that'll never sell at the value of the inputs, and not being able to do anything to fix it.

On topic, another one of the IB COs I frequent has been replaced by a POCO with 10% tax, and I still have yet to run into a planet with no CO or one with a gank waiting for me.
ROCK MELTER
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2012-03-11 01:23:17 UTC
Kile Kitmoore wrote:
POCO's are great, anything player made and destroyed is a good idea. Heck take it a step further and make Command Center's player made!

The one thing I really hate however is the absolute lack of communication about the status of a planet I am on which I don't own the POCO. If the POCO owner changes taxes, you are in the dark until you visit it. If the POCO is attacked, you can't even try to help the owner defend it. Some type of notification system would be helpful.

Let the owner name the custom office and maybe even give it a BIO type screen so the owner can leave messages for existing or future tenants.

While on the subject of PI, time to consider some new products PI can produce or more uses for the crap stuff that are hardly used.


Communication is key. Should get mails on everything you mentioned AND also when it is destroyed. One of my planets had it's POCO destroyed and there is no way for me to retrieve anything from the planet now. A mail on that would of been nice.

Naming the POCO just like a POS is a great idea!

Repping takes way to long. Needs to be shortened somehow.
ROCK MELTER
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2012-03-11 01:32:22 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Feedback from low sec militia pilot:

6. They badly need a corporate hangar, or the ability to host corporate contracts from peoples personal hangars at the POCO. I can only imagine the lack of this was a ******** oversight since they are CORPORATE structures.


Agreed! This would help out a lot with logistics.
Dograzor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2012-03-12 12:22:58 UTC
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?

Taxes are horrid, as long as you are not in an alliance that actively holds space/sov that can defend their POCO's with taxes on 0%, you cannot make a decent profit out of PI. Price drop has also kicked in on materials on the market, so PI itself is now more worse then it was.

2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?

Yes, that is the positive side of the POCO's, more ways to **** people off = more fights.

3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?

Negative, it has turned out to be the opposite. The people who can fully benefit from this feature are the larger sized alliances who can defend their space at all time. I myself am more of a nomadic player in a medium sized corp, our corp moves from region to region, so defending poco's/space is not something we do.

4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?

Less, PI itself has become too much of a hassle now due to the taxes and the price drop on the market. I am running PI on my industrial character and I am considering letting it go because the prices are just not worth it.

5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?

Nope.

Kile Kitmoore
#179 - 2012-03-12 16:06:48 UTC
Dograzor wrote:
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?

Taxes are horrid, as long as you are not in an alliance that actively holds space/sov that can defend their POCO's with taxes on 0%, you cannot make a decent profit out of PI. Price drop has also kicked in on materials on the market, so PI itself is now more worse then it was.

2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?

Yes, that is the positive side of the POCO's, more ways to **** people off = more fights.

3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?

Negative, it has turned out to be the opposite. The people who can fully benefit from this feature are the larger sized alliances who can defend their space at all time. I myself am more of a nomadic player in a medium sized corp, our corp moves from region to region, so defending poco's/space is not something we do.

4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?

Less, PI itself has become too much of a hassle now due to the taxes and the price drop on the market. I am running PI on my industrial character and I am considering letting it go because the prices are just not worth it.

5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?

Nope.




All good points, so the question is would anyone pay Dust merc's to defend their planets?
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#180 - 2012-03-13 13:42:17 UTC
Kile Kitmoore wrote:

All good points, so the question is would anyone pay Dust merc's to defend their planets?

Not unless CCP improves the actual PI game play (new products, new planetary structures, population control). Continuing to "sugar coat" a lacking feature with elements that add nothing to the feature itself, except making it more inconvenient, is a brain dead approach. Best exemplified by how you can operate and fight for a POCO and have fun with that without ever touching a planetary extractor or product.

The absurd situation will be enforced when DUST mercs get tones more fun and engaging game play out of wasting my planetary facilities than the puny amount I get out of pressing a button one time every week.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook