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AF changes not quite what was needed
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Kumq uat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-01-26 05:35:25 UTC
I am glad you got around to looking at AF's CCP. I really am. I really think you need to reconsider the class bonus they now have. An AB bonus just makes so much more sense than making them a more heavily armed interceptor. An AB bonus would give some variety to the trend of MWD ON EVERYTHING that is the mindset of most people. I for instance love getting in my AF with a burner and halo implants and the MWD bonus just makes me kinda meh. I am also not sure just how well a blaster ship can track with that MWD cranking it around taking it way out of range.

If you could reconsider this I would be most thankful.



PS. Your extra bonus to the Ishkur was laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.
Khrage
#2 - 2012-01-26 06:38:35 UTC
cry some more.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-01-26 06:41:26 UTC
We've been over this ∞ times already.
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
#4 - 2012-01-26 06:41:42 UTC
Khrage wrote:
cry some more.



Cry some more about him crying.
Elessa Enaka
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-01-26 06:46:01 UTC
Kumq uat wrote:
I am glad you got around to looking at AF's CCP. I really am. I really think you need to reconsider the class bonus they now have. An AB bonus just makes so much more sense than making them a more heavily armed interceptor. An AB bonus would give some variety to the trend of MWD ON EVERYTHING that is the mindset of most people. I for instance love getting in my AF with a burner and halo implants and the MWD bonus just makes me kinda meh. I am also not sure just how well a blaster ship can track with that MWD cranking it around taking it way out of range.

If you could reconsider this I would be most thankful.



PS. Your extra bonus to the Ishkur was laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.


Yeah, I took my Wolf out tonight for the first time since the patch and I have to say that I agree with you about an AB being a better choice.

I tried it with a MWD and it just didn't feel right, replaced the MWD with an AB and it felt like home.

Please at least consider it CCP.

Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been Eve is a great game if you can get past all of the asshats....
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#6 - 2012-01-26 06:47:28 UTC
You don't have to use a mwd on them. Besides, If someone puts a scramble on you, it's completely useless.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#7 - 2012-01-26 06:53:47 UTC
MWD bonus is useless for me, I use my Retribution to help new players with L1s and L2s etc, and MWDs can't be used in mission space. So an AB Bonus would suit me allot more.

Also agree with the fact that giving it a MWD bonus steps on the toes of the interceptors.
Hecatonis
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-01-26 06:58:24 UTC
i also have to agree, have an afterburner bonus would help add diversity to the game.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#9 - 2012-01-26 07:11:15 UTC
MWD bonus really steps on the toes of combat ceptors (Claw, Taranis, Crusader, Crow), which don't get point range bonuses, and are somewhat slower than their tackle ceptor counterparts. Combat ceptors are now the class that most need a look-see.

However, an AB bonus would not have been a solution, as was demonstrated in the past when CCP tried it on SiSi a couple of years ago. It resulted in grossly overpowered AFs.

CCP and CSM discussed doing an AB buff (trying again) but decided against it because while in theory it sounds like a cool idea, in practice it is nigh-impossible to balance: it will either be too little (and thus an insignificant AF buff) or too much (and thus make AFs completely broken).

The MWD bonus lets you do what combat ceptors are built for doing: charge (somewhat) directly at bigger enemies without taking much damage on your flight in, then play the role of heavy tackle + DPS from up close, getting under their guns if possible. Because they are so heavy and sport small guns, though, AFs can forgo the MWD for an AB instead, and become the ultimate frigate-sized slugger ships, while retaining decent DPS. Both roles work well, but require drastically different fits.

And again, for emphasis: You don't have to fit a MWD.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-01-26 07:23:56 UTC
Caldari 5 wrote:
MWD bonus is useless for me, I use my Retribution to help new players with L1s and L2s etc, and MWDs can't be used in mission space. So an AB Bonus would suit me allot more.

Also agree with the fact that giving it a MWD bonus steps on the toes of the interceptors.

They changed (almost all) missions to allow MWD in them months ago already :P
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#11 - 2012-01-26 07:24:30 UTC
St Mio wrote:
Caldari 5 wrote:
MWD bonus is useless for me, I use my Retribution to help new players with L1s and L2s etc, and MWDs can't be used in mission space. So an AB Bonus would suit me allot more.

Also agree with the fact that giving it a MWD bonus steps on the toes of the interceptors.

They changed (almost all) missions to allow MWD in them months ago already :P

Some newbie missions still don't.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Hecatonis
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-01-26 07:38:00 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
MWD bonus really steps on the toes of combat ceptors (Claw, Taranis, Crusader, Crow), which don't get point range bonuses, and are somewhat slower than their tackle ceptor counterparts. Combat ceptors are now the class that most need a look-see.

However, an AB bonus would not have been a solution, as was demonstrated in the past when CCP tried it on SiSi a couple of years ago. It resulted in grossly overpowered AFs.

CCP and CSM discussed doing an AB buff (trying again) but decided against it because while in theory it sounds like a cool idea, in practice it is nigh-impossible to balance: it will either be too little (and thus an insignificant AF buff) or too much (and thus make AFs completely broken).

The MWD bonus lets you do what combat ceptors are built for doing: charge (somewhat) directly at bigger enemies without taking much damage on your flight in, then play the role of heavy tackle + DPS from up close, getting under their guns if possible. Because they are so heavy and sport small guns, though, AFs can forgo the MWD for an AB instead, and become the ultimate frigate-sized slugger ships, while retaining decent DPS. Both roles work well, but require drastically different fits.

And again, for emphasis: You don't have to fit a MWD.


well worded, it is so rare on these forums
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#13 - 2012-01-26 08:30:36 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
St Mio wrote:
Caldari 5 wrote:
MWD bonus is useless for me, I use my Retribution to help new players with L1s and L2s etc, and MWDs can't be used in mission space. So an AB Bonus would suit me allot more.

Also agree with the fact that giving it a MWD bonus steps on the toes of the interceptors.

They changed (almost all) missions to allow MWD in them months ago already :P

Some newbie missions still don't.


Bug report it.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-01-26 08:44:59 UTC
They said they wanted to enable MWDs in all missions ( http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1376276&page=1#13 ) So yeah, bug report it :>
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#15 - 2012-01-26 09:10:17 UTC
I was fine with my Ishkur just the way it was.

These new additions are gravy and I'm sure not going to complain about them. If I feel the need to put a MWD on it I will do it knowing that it's a little bit better than it was. If I stick with an AB then I'm just as happy with the thing as I was before.

Mr Epeen Cool
JamesCLK
#16 - 2012-01-26 10:19:09 UTC
Sigh... and then there was whine about changes that had absolutely zero negative impacts on an underused ship-class.

The MWD bonus makes AFs useful as heavy tackle in fleet situations and makes them semi-viable kiting platforms (if you weren't afraid of the kiting jag before, now you should be); It means that they won't get volleyed as much while trying to catch kiting cruisers and the like too, which is good! Any speed bonus would have moved them dangerously far into combat inty role territory, which would be terrible; an AB bonus is entirely un-needed - HACs don't have them either but tbh they'd be lucky to get a similar sigrad role bonus.

Sure, for fleet work a faction frigate or combat inty might do a better job at tackling, but those ships don't exactly boast a lot of tank - or gank (the new Enyo especially is a DPS monster in a frigate husk) for that matter. The AF combines the three into a nice balanced mix for any frigate fleet.

For solo work you should just see the MWD sig bonus as a free side order of fries with your steak; but it is just that: a free side order - so you shouldn't be complaining because it doesn't have your favorite compliment of salt and vinegar -- IMHO.
So go slap an AB on your AF, just like before, and revel in the fact that you're not being bound by the unbendable rules of the "if it has bonus, you fit bonused module" crowd.


NB: For those interested, Azual did a very nice blog entry on these new changes over in the blog pack; go check it out, then figure out why these changes are terrific and CCP Tallest is a god amongst developers.

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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-01-26 10:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
"a more heavily armed interceptor"

"interceptor"

*LOL*

Interceptor = fast as hell, high warp speed.
Assault frig = slow as the rest, usual warp speed.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-01-26 11:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
MWD bonus really steps on the toes of combat ceptors (Claw, Taranis, Crusader, Crow), which don't get point range bonuses, and are somewhat slower than their tackle ceptor counterparts. Combat ceptors are now the class that most need a look-see


AFs have been so bad that people preferred to fly combat interceptors instead for damage dealing. These new AFs are not stepping on the combat interceptor's toes, they are reclaiming their intended role.

As for actual interceptor work, there is no need to worry, interceptors are still a lot better at it.
Solj RichPopolous
F I G H T C L U B
H A R D L I N E R S
#19 - 2012-01-26 11:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
YOU NOT DOING IT RIGHT.

My AF goes 2500 m/s on AB who needs a MWD.

This is heavy tackle try getting 1 of those off your ass with a nice little tank and going that fast, guns flat out miss and missiles do jack all for damage. Bout the only savior is long range webs or heavy neuts.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#20 - 2012-01-26 11:23:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
Basically the MWD bonus gives you a choice. You can fit an AB as most did before, enjoying the low sigres and functionality even if scrammed. OR, you can fit and MWD, which with reduced sigres make it possible to act as a chaser tackler with a bit more punch and tank than an interceptor (but still slower) without beeing shot to pieces immediately due to the huge bloom. Or you can fit both. Dual prop setups are definitly possible on some AFs.

Secondly, yes - some of the new bonuses are "lamer" than others. If you look closer though, you find that the "lamer" bonuses are applied to the AFs previosly thought of as the strongest ones, while the more awesome bonuses are applied to the previously weak ones. Its called balancing. And in the case of AFs, the playing field just got way more level.

For example, the Ishkurs new bonus is kinda meh, while the new bonus to the Enyo is awesome. Now, pilots have a real choice. Enyo or Ishkur? previously that question wasnt even asked. Peope always chose the Ishkur. Now both are viable choices.
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