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Lets talk about the Legions Subsystems.
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Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#1 - 2012-01-24 04:00:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivory Kantenu
-Why is it that the Legions Covert Ops subsystem lacks a damage bonus? In a PVE Standpoint (Wormholes and Low Sec mostly) you should have almost no cap issue running the standard defensive setup and 2 CR IIs and an Afterburner. This ship is far out-shined by the Proteus and Loki especially in such areas. In a PVP Standpoint, the Legion lacks the burst that the Proteus / Loki have by quite a bit.

-The Legion Drone subsystem needs a buff, or a replacement of some kind. Its damage is very far behind what a Proteus can do with the same kind of setup. The Cap Bonus on this subsystem is, again, completely unneeded, as you will be running 4 Turrets MAX on this ship. Perhaps an additional low slot for an extra heat sink / defensive mod so you can throw a buffer in the rigs?

-The Energy Parasitic Complex needs a range bonus, otherwise you're wasting your time flying an overly expensive Curse / Pilgrim. The risk is not often worth the reward.

My top 3 complaints. Feel free to add / debate, but try to keep it civil. Thanks. :)

-Edit-

Ill throw this in as well since it will be brought up.

Referring back to the Covert Ops subsystem, the Cloak-i and Cloaking Proteus are awesome Cov-Ops boats compared to what the Legion can do in PVP Situations. At the same rate, the Tengu may not have a damage bonus, but it has a great range advantage.

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Renarla
#2 - 2012-01-24 04:22:05 UTC
Ivory Kantenu wrote:
-Why is it that the Legions Covert Ops subsystem is the only subsystem in the game without a damage bonus? In a PVE Standpoint (Wormholes and Low Sec mostly) you should have almost no cap issue running the standard defensive setup and 2 CR IIs and an Afterburner. This ship is far out-shined by the Proteus and Loki especially in such areas.


Ivory Kantenu wrote:
In a PVE Standpoint far out-shined by the Proteus


Ivory Kantenu wrote:
PVE Proteus


Lol
Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#3 - 2012-01-24 04:33:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivory Kantenu
Considering the Proteus is capable of soloing L5s, yes PVE. Hard concept, I know.

Next terrible moronic troll, please. Roll

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Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#4 - 2012-01-24 19:12:47 UTC
Guessing no one is interested on beating on this supposed dead horse then?

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Frank Pannon
Emerald Swine Escavations
#5 - 2012-01-24 19:29:07 UTC
Legion is still one of my dream future ships, do not crush my dreams Cry

Hope this thread will have some good fits and arguments pro and against.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#6 - 2012-01-24 19:49:56 UTC
Yes some of the Legion Subs suck.
Cloaky one is a joke. It either needs the cap bonus swapped out for a damage bonus, or for its slot layout to change. If it gave an extra low/high instead of an extra mid it could work. As it stands you end up with bugger all damage and bugger all tank if you try and make it do damage.

Range bonus instead of amount bonus on the Parasite sub would be awesome, but can imagine a lot of people not being keen on that idea.
Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#7 - 2012-01-25 03:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivory Kantenu
Mr Floydy wrote:
Yes some of the Legion Subs suck.
Cloaky one is a joke. It either needs the cap bonus swapped out for a damage bonus, or for its slot layout to change. If it gave an extra low/high instead of an extra mid it could work. As it stands you end up with bugger all damage and bugger all tank if you try and make it do damage.

Range bonus instead of amount bonus on the Parasite sub would be awesome, but can imagine a lot of people not being keen on that idea.


Seeing as the Power Grid would start to get a bit tight at that point for PVE, an extra low might work out better than an extra high, but compounding it with the PGM Subsystem would also mean you could run a 2 Active Rep setup much better, for the cost of cap management.

The range bonus for the system is the only way I see it working out better in the end. The Curse / Pilgrim are just so cost effective at what they do, and losing a Legion is so not worth it compared to losing a Curse or Pilgrim. That, or possibly bumping the bonus to 12.5%. 15% seems like overkill.

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Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-01-25 16:46:03 UTC
t3 layout, and subs need to be looked at across the board. Some are worthless, and some *cough* *cough* tengu are godly that everything else just pales in comparison.
Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#9 - 2012-01-25 17:32:38 UTC
+1 to all of op's thoughts. And not for the sake of just buffing the legion.

Fix covops sub by merging it with drone sub (duh like the pilgrim)
new laser sub

Range bonus to neut as well or even switch the amount for range.

Fixed.
Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#10 - 2012-01-25 17:41:00 UTC
Good luck getting a response, I tried drumming up support a month or 2 ago to little effect.
Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#11 - 2012-01-26 03:05:00 UTC
Cheers for the input so far guys. :)

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Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#12 - 2012-01-26 03:51:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aestivalis Saidrian
An idea for reorganizing the offensive subsystems on the Legion.

On the current Liquid Magnifiers:
Remove the range bonus, keep damage and capacitor usage in place. Enjoy being a Super Harbinger

Raveshow of Death Subsystem, which replaces the drone subsystem.
Optimal Range Bonus:
Tracking Bonus:
Comes with 6 high slots/6 turret slots.

Assault Optimization:
Give HMLs some love and let them have the damage bonus as well.
Add a 25m3 Drone Bay with 25 bandwidth.

Covert Ops:
10% Drone HP/Damage
10% RoF Bonus
10% Capacitor usage Just Because.
NO. BAD MEDIUM SLOT. BAD. GO TO LOW WHERE YOU BELONG.

You get two turrets. Enjoy being a Super Pilgrim.


Yeah, the Covert Ops subsystem on the Legion is a bit obnoxious on the turret bonuses BUT, you get three turrets at the cost of the Interdiction Nullifier. Or do what I did and go 5 turrets/Heavy Neutron Blasters. :/ Like so.

[Legion, Hurrlegion]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Large Shield Extender II
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Khanid Navy Warp Scrambler
Republic Fleet 10MN MicroWarpdrive

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Hybrid Collision Accelerator II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Legion Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Legion Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier

58k EHP, 452 DPS at All V.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-01-26 11:10:54 UTC
I posted this in another Legion Thread. think it was the Christmas wishlist one.

Alticus C Bear wrote:

Defensive

Adaptive Augmenter - 7.5% Cap reduction and at least 50% bonus to armour repair range, I understand the reluctance to replace logistics ships but this sub should at least be viable and it is the cap use and range that holds this back.

Offensive
On paper you look to have a good spread of capability but some are just subpar. Generally I would up the drone compliment

Drone Synthesis Projector - 75mbit bandwidth

Liquid Crystal Magnifiers - 25mbit drone bay and bandwidth

Assault Optimisation - A third missile bonus probably explosion velocity

Electronics

Energy Parasitic Complex - don’t see this used a lot either so how about a further 25mbit drone bay and bandwidth. Combined with the Drone sub you now have 100mbit bandwidth, it can also be used to buff the other offensive subs but you are more likely to use the weapon hard points than neuts, still this would give a Laser Legion 50mbit bandwidth and give the covert sub some drones.

Prop Subs

Wake Limiter - Proteus has this, it is not used. The bonus needs to be more like the Inty bonus; it is already the slowest subsystem.

Those are my ideas anyway, whatever happens don’t just buff the legion look at all subsystems for all ships
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#14 - 2012-01-26 14:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:
Raveshow of Death Subsystem, which replaces the drone subsystem.

Just NO!

Belive it or not but there are many who aktual like the drone sub as it is nearly perfekt for exploring.

[Legion, Drone Explorer]
Damage Control II
3*Imp Navy Heat Sink II
Imp Navy Medium Armor Repairer

Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner
Analyzer II
Codebreaker II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II
4*Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M

Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
MORE DRONES

562 DPS, 283 max defence, 27k EHP, tons of CPU and Grid left to use other stuff.

Get right of this stupid NERV "cap usage" and give it a true bonus is all it needs.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#15 - 2012-01-26 16:08:27 UTC
Relax man, drone bonuses got moved to covops, along with a Not Crap Rate of Fire bonus.
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-01-26 16:12:09 UTC
Ivory Kantenu wrote:
Guessing no one is interested on beating on this supposed dead horse then?

I'm sorry. I stopped training for a Legion long ago. Even though it looks very pretty.

I guess I'll have to do with a Loki and Tengu.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-01-26 16:31:54 UTC
Frank Pannon wrote:
Legion is still one of my dream future ships, do not crush my dreams Cry

Hope this thread will have some good fits and arguments pro and against.



you can Cov-Op fit a legion and still get 300 DPS out of it.. which aint bad IMO.

I've been playing around with a Legion Cov-Logi fit for small gang support in WHs may not be the best thread for it but here it is.

HIGH
Cov Ops Cloak
Sisters Probe Launcher
Med Remote AR II
Med Remote AR II
Med Remote AR II
Med Energy Transfer II
Med Energy Transfer II

MED
Cap Recharger II x4

LOW
EM Hardener II
Therm Hardener II
Kinetic Hardener II
DC II
Cap Power Relay II

(Armor Resists 81/75/86/83) A therm hole but not a big one What?)
(Ehp 34.3K)

RIGS
Med CCC I x3

SUB SYSTEMS
Augmented Cap Res
Emergent Locus
Adaptive Augmentor
Chassis Opt

Its cap stable but, no burner, no armor rep, and lots of slots dedicated to capacitor plus a SS and all the Rigs. However I think in a small Legion Gang it would be able to RR and Cap up two or three Ships and it should come as a surprise at first at least. Obviosuly its vulnerable to Neuts and ECM.

Thoughts?

Has anyone tried this before? You'll all say go with the Guardian, but you can't Cov-Op fit a Guardian Pirate

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#18 - 2012-01-26 17:27:19 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:
Raveshow of Death Subsystem, which replaces the drone subsystem.

Just NO!

Belive it or not but there are many who aktual like the drone sub as it is nearly perfekt for exploring.

[Legion, Drone Explorer]
(His set up)

562 DPS, 283 max defence, 27k EHP, tons of CPU and Grid left to use other stuff.

Get right of this stupid NERV "cap usage" and give it a true bonus is all it needs.


Good luck running decent sites with that defense. You maxed out the dps at the cost of all the defense. Point being, some subs are lacking and need looking at.

My suggestions again: merge cov and drone sub, new laser sub (WITH DRONES and rof) plus range on ewar sub.
Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#19 - 2012-01-28 03:00:44 UTC
Daily bump. :)

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Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#20 - 2012-01-28 04:39:55 UTC
I reposted this info in General with little interest What?
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