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Most ice miners are bots! *SHOCK* (not really...)
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#81 - 2012-01-22 21:14:26 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
In this case, the solution envolves explosions! Who can have a problem with that? Roll

This is a great point. Explosions make everything better.

Wonder what the numbers on the upcoming Hulk hunt will be like.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
DIsposible Hero
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-01-24 01:56:35 UTC
I like the idea someone posted a few pages back about podding them, then tracking down their pods and podding them again so they lose SP. If these people have bots mining all day every day, chances are the loss of a few barges will be annoying, but ultimately still a net win. Now if they actually lose the ability to fly their ships and had to re-train.... Twisted

What does it take to gank a pod, incidentally? Could it be done with a rookie ship? I'd be more than happy to create a junk alt purely for the purposes of killing pod miners.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#83 - 2012-01-24 07:32:12 UTC
Hm, you raise an interesting possibility. Alphapodding the bot repeatedly. How far back would it set that character back?

No idea how much damage you need to kill a pod before concord gets there.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#84 - 2012-01-25 19:00:24 UTC
You can save yourselves some time by avoiding ganking actual players. Type "If you are not a bot, tell me the sum of twenty three and fourteen" into local. A few real players will enter 37. The rest you blow up. Less ships you need pop, sooner you can move on to the next system.

And yes, I have ice mined and I have avoided betting ganked by talking to the local bot gankers in local.

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Msgerbs
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-01-26 07:41:24 UTC
I'm curious how 3 catalysts kills an Orca. Please, share your secrets to success!
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#86 - 2012-01-26 08:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Xen Solarus wrote:
YAY to you guys! Keep up the good work! Not sure why people have a problem with this, you sure as hell won't find people that use bots on the forums. Killing bots = more profits for people that don't use bots.
In this case, the solution envolves explosions! Who can have a problem with that? Roll


Killing bots will help more legit players to replace them in the demand vs offer economics.
It'd be a tangible help on new players.

It won't bring in the fabled profits though (after a spike right after bots are all dead), because if you replace 1000 bots with 1000 players, prices stay the same. Of course the players won't mine 23/7 so there will be an increase, let's say 20-25% of revenue but it won't make mining the new emergent profession.


Alavaria Fera wrote:
Hm, you raise an interesting possibility. Alphapodding the bot repeatedly. How far back would it set that character back?

No idea how much damage you need to kill a pod before concord gets there.


If you pod them, they will respawn in a station with clone support. The pod will go in and out of there, unless you know where this "there" is (could be 20 jumps away) you will get only 1 pod.

If you were so persistent to go hunt them so far, then you'll need to do potentially hundreds of jumps per "cleaned" system, hindering the bot killage more than if you just pod them once.

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Lauren Cooper
Permanently Bewildered
#87 - 2012-01-26 16:23:09 UTC
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
Nekopyat wrote:
You do realize that ganking is one of the big reasons there are so many bots in the first place?

Bot miners can afford to replace ships easily, loosing a few hundred million in exhumer is not a big deal so it simply becomes a cost of doing business.

Human miners on the other hand play a lot less and their ROI is a lot lower, so often when they get ganked they simply do not return to mining, they can't afford it. So over time human miners leave the profession while the bot ones keep at about the same numbers.

So you are not doing some noble deed, you are making the problem worse.


Interesting point, but I disagree.

Bots exist because ice mining in high sec is (outside of ganking) completely risk free and exceptionally easy to perform. It is because it only takes ~12 mouse clicks every 10 minutes to make 6m/hr, that so many bots exist in the ice belts. It is so simple, I believe it would be possible to make an ice mining macro on one of those fancy logitech keyboards with the LCD screen. That's just not right.

By increasing the level of risk substantially, we hope to drive them out of ice mining by making it too much hassle.

Furthermore, we are ganking them repeatadly, making sure the cost of their ships is high.

And if you look closely at the link I posted above, that one bot operation is out 7 Billion isk now. With 4 mackinaws, that's going to take him some 10.5 days of non stop mining to make back. That ain't no pocket change, son.

Now you say we are driving out the real miners. I would say that if they are real miners, then they would get out of the belt after the first gank and stay safe. And this does happen. Often after the first gank, some small percentage of people will dock up and wait for us to finish killing the bots that remained in the belt.


We are only doing God's work here, people.



Bah...roleplayers...

Wait...what's that?

God just spoke to me through the Empress and he/she says you should stop ganking miners and go do something worthy of him/her. Most notably...he/she wants a tunafish sandwich and would like you to fly back to earth of old (through normal space) to get it. Off with you now...God/Empress looks very hungry and I hear tell they aren't particularly patient or forgiving.
Ihatemarco
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-01-26 18:01:51 UTC
Did he mention u can pay him 150mill isk so that he will set u too blue standing and "he will left u alone for the license period" . Does this mean u can ice mining with bot aslong as u pay him, seems hypocritic .
Duck Mouth
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#89 - 2012-01-26 18:07:33 UTC
Salcon Cliff wrote:
That is why I add a tank to my Mack (as opposed to optimizing) and keep an alt in a Vulture floating in system :).

Do the bot miners use haulers or just fill their hold and run back and forth?

I do ice mine when I spend some time afk/distracted (feeding the kids or cleaning up around the house, etc.), so I could see my pod floating for a while, but probably not more than 10 minutes in an absolute worst-case scenario (i.e. you ganked me right as I walked away from the computer).



My main's mack has 2 invulns, booster, scram, and T2 drones!! And I only go AFK for short periods of a minute or two and a time. I'm just waiting on the day someone tries to gank my main... they'll be upset :/

No ice mining in this toon yet, but will have similar setup when I do.
Msgerbs
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-01-26 20:04:19 UTC
Duck Mouth wrote:
Salcon Cliff wrote:
That is why I add a tank to my Mack (as opposed to optimizing) and keep an alt in a Vulture floating in system :).

Do the bot miners use haulers or just fill their hold and run back and forth?

I do ice mine when I spend some time afk/distracted (feeding the kids or cleaning up around the house, etc.), so I could see my pod floating for a while, but probably not more than 10 minutes in an absolute worst-case scenario (i.e. you ganked me right as I walked away from the computer).



My main's mack has 2 invulns, booster, scram, and T2 drones!! And I only go AFK for short periods of a minute or two and a time. I'm just waiting on the day someone tries to gank my main... they'll be upset :/

No ice mining in this toon yet, but will have similar setup when I do.

lulz. Pure lulz. The 2 booster, scram, and T2 drones won't help. Once they shoot, they're dead, with no interaction needed from you. 2 invulnvs help, but with the rest of your lulzy stuff in mid you're not getting the tank you should be. Use shield extenders and invulns, not... a scram and booster...
Kelsi Darr
Orbital Express LTD
Trystero GmbH
#91 - 2012-01-26 20:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelsi Darr
With glacial mass ice hard to buy, I decided to grab some to cook some cubes for a POS of ours last night as I drowsily sat in front of my monitor. "I'll watch local," I lied to myself. "Surely I'll see if anyone strange warps into the belt." A bit later I tabbed back from downloading the latest EFT version only to find myself locked up by... a couple of Drakes!? Where's the alpha strike in those!? (I presume HAMs, but still that's not much alpha.)

I accepted the convo request as I warped off to station.
Me: "Ack!"
Them: "You haven't moved in a bit."

I'm not at my home setup, so I don't have it line by line with me. And I don't know if I was just being trolled by target locks without follow-through. But in case the guys who were there were actually hunting bots (they weren't below -5 yet), then my thanks for giving me a nice chat and not just an opening salvo. ^_^ (I did decide to go to bed at that point!)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#92 - 2012-01-26 20:39:15 UTC
Yeah, they say after a while every miner starts to look like a bot.

The ice mining mechanics in particular encourage this.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ehn Roh
#93 - 2012-01-31 23:05:27 UTC
Nekopyat wrote:
You do realize that ganking is one of the big reasons there are so many bots in the first place?

So you are not doing some noble deed, you are making the problem worse.


This is utterly ridiculous. If you're trolling, well done.
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-02-01 14:19:29 UTC
Kelsi Darr wrote:

I accepted the convo request as I warped off to station.
Me: "Ack!"
Them: "You haven't moved in a bit."

Hmm .. typical low grade gankers who know nothing about mining ice..
Did you have orca support?
Takes me about 3 hours to fill an orca with a single mack...
And I don't move at all during that time ..
But then I'm not afk either..(at least not for longer than it takes me to get a drink)
Hans Tria
Dark Matter Inc
#95 - 2012-02-01 23:58:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Tria
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
A few friends and I are currently on a purification pilgrimage to the regions of Heimatar, Metropolis, and Molden Heath (that'd be Minnie Ice belts); our goal is to purify the belts of all ice mining bots and lazy AFK miners by sending them to the deity of their choosing. I realize that the purification process is messy and that sometimes honest miners get caught. I make no apologies for this. As is said, you need to break some eggs to make an omelet.

During the pilgrimage I've been keeping some numbers; you honest ice miners might be interested in these statistics.

The data covers the 393 exhumer kills during the months of December and January.

. . .

Out of these kills, a whopping 328 of the remaining pods remained in the belt for greater than 10 minutes after their ship was destroyed.

. . .

Out of these 328 pods, an alarming 113 of the pods continued to warp back and forth to the station after having their ship destroyed.

That's 34.4 percent of remaining pods continue to warp between station and belt in a pod after having their exhumer purified.



Honestly, I think if you want CCP to do something about this, FRAPS this activity and then get some gaming sites to publish it. Ultimately, CCP makes too much money from bots and all their accounts to do anything about it unless botting starts costing them subscribers. In order for it to start costing them subscribers, you need to advertise the extent to which this goes on in Eve. This is exactly the kind of information that will get people who are considering picking up Eve to choose another option.

Edit: To be clear, I am not suggesting that pods that stayed in belt were bots, they were probably afk mining. However, pods that continue to warp back and forth and clearly bots.
Dai'nin Roi'nin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-02-02 02:33:04 UTC
That's all well and good and I applaud your zeal against bots.
However I think that the mechanical cause of botting is what needs to be examined and exterminated.

And that cause is the tedious inactivity that is required in mining!


In EVE:

Mining = fun, like yolk = stiff white peaks.

Mining = fun, like a flat tire = getting my ass to work on time.

Mining = fun, like an arrow in the knee = acrobatic skills.

Mining = fun, like castration = progeny.

Mining = fun, like a sawed off shotgun in a backpack = a gold star.

Mining = fun, like stupid parents = healthy kids.

Mining = fun, like rap = good music.

Mining = fun, like politicians = honest men.



TL: DR :: :: Mining sucks, fix it.
Hyrath Rotineque
Dagger-1
The.Enclave
#97 - 2012-02-02 12:56:18 UTC
Been wondering why the Minmatar ice prices have been so volitile over the past week. I saw you in one of the ice belts about 2 weeks back when you were killing a bunch of people and using a Basi as your target to warp to. I didn't think that you were going to keep at it but anyway thanks!
Slver Wolf
Asus Industries
#98 - 2012-02-02 23:11:21 UTC
You ever think what you're doing is causing people to leave the game? It's the same with hulkagedden.. Let's kill all the passive players that just want to do their own thing, happily mining away. That sounds like a great idea *sarcasm*

I really don't understand how multiple accounts(which is illegal in every other game in existence) is legal, but a guy spending hours macro mining is illegal.. Get some priorities straight here, a game shouldn't be JUST about getting the owners of it money..
Aral Gnik
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-02-03 20:26:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Aral Gnik
As a parent of this toon, I am a little disgusted at people that take killing supposed robominers into their own hands, at least in high sec.

Avanzado and his corp of two knuckledraggers (Macros' Bane) are on a mission to rid the belts of robominers, so that real miners can profit. Albeit a seemingly noble endeavor, this cretan and his crew are definitely misguided.

He supposedly has undisputable proof that he killed a robominer. What he accomplished was ruining the game for a young player who was sick home from school, mining semi-afk, went to the restroom and returned to panic at the computer...her hulk was toast. Sadly, she has no funds with to buy another, so instead of doing a service, Avanzado has just ruined it for a kid. A shame really. This account may go idle in the end. It is the mall cop mentality: too much power, a little self-righteousness, and little IQ...one can presume.

I'll grant you that her practice of semi-afk mining and going to the restroom while in 0.6 space was not advisable, she is forbidden from chatting in local or outside of our corp, due to language mainly. I should of put her up in 0.9 space somewhere, so bad on the parent too.

The methodology of putting math in local doesn't always work, and alas, someone gets pOOfed because of self-righteousness and a flawed methodology. Feel free to poke fun at Avanzado, set him to Terrible, and do collect the reward for podding him.Evil

Help protect the miners and industrialists, we make your ships, modules, and ammo!

Best regards,

Parent of Aral Gnik and EVE pilot since '08
Avanzado
Macros' Bane
#100 - 2012-02-03 21:05:35 UTC
Such sweet macro tears.

You've been caught, and this acting bit is the only leg you've got to stand on.

Honest miners who sit with me in local day in and day out are catching on. If all I wanted were dead Hulks, hell, I could kill well over 10 a day.

-Avanzado


Aral Gnik wrote:
As a parent of this toon, I am a little disgusted at people that take killing supposed robominers into their own hands, at least in high sec.

Avanzado and his corp of two knuckledraggers (Macros' Bane) are on a mission to rid the belts of robominers, so that real miners can profit. Albeit a seemingly noble endeavor, this cretan and his crew are definitely misguided.

He supposedly has undisputable proof that he killed a robominer. What he accomplished was ruining the game for a young player who was sick home from school, mining semi-afk, went to the restroom and returned to panic at the computer...her hulk was toast. Sadly, she has no funds with to buy another, so instead of doing a service, Avanzado has just ruined it for a kid. A shame really. This account may go idle in the end. It is the mall cop mentality: too much power, a little self-righteousness, and little IQ...one can presume.

I'll grant you that her practice of semi-afk mining and going to the restroom while in 0.6 space was not advisable, she is forbidden from chatting in local or outside of our corp, due to language mainly. I should of put her up in 0.9 space somewhere, so bad on the parent too.

The methodology of putting math in local doesn't always work, and alas, someone gets pOOfed because of self-righteousness and a flawed methodology. Feel free to poke fun at Avanzado, set him to Terrible, and do collect the reward for podding him.Evil

Help protect the miners and industrialists, we make your ships, modules, and ammo!

Best regards,

Parent of Aral Gnik and EVE pilot since '08