These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

War Declarations and Joining / Leaving a Corporation and / or Alliance
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mentalsmith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-01-25 05:05:29 UTC
Is effing lame.


Alright, I suggest that there be some drawbacks from declaring war.

If a Corporation declares war upon another, ALL recruiting efforts must be put on hold until after war has ceased. Meaning, You can join a corp, but can't participate in the war, or must wait for a period of time for CONCORD to register you as a combatant or part of the corp, or whatever.

If you leave a corporation during war, you should still be declared upon for up to 24 hours after you leave, as the request to be removed from combatant status by concord must be registered and approved.

I say CONCORD in all of this because outside of high and .5 sec, it really doesn't make a difference, and should not be penalized. HOWEVER, in Security statuses above .5, it's kinda lame that you can drop corp, go out and run missions for a half hour or mine and such, and then dock and join back up.

Bumping people away from the station is a pain, but at least it's a way that you can deal with people camping on the station. Having them drop corp so they can move ships and supplies all over the place is really frustrating though.


Again:

In High Security: Players must be in a corp for [24 hours] before allowed to participate in war. Players will remain in war up to [24 hours] after declaring war.


Why: It annoys me that this particular Merc Corp can simply sit in station and drop corp whenever they need to do stuff. I may be in a high sec corp, but at least I'm not this much of a wimp.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#2 - 2012-01-25 07:59:23 UTC
Feel better now?

Anyway, CCP is reviewing how to change the wardec mechanics but it's in the incubation stage so who knows when all this nonsense will be fixed.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-01-25 08:33:55 UTC
While I applaud your idea, I think we can try to do something a bit more binding than this suggestion. That way it's a fix that cuts both ways. When you're a carebear 24 hours of war following you isn't enough. How about if I can't hop into a dec you can't shed a dec?

To be clear: I am not trolling. The war dec mechanics are broken. Your fix only really helps carebears. I know it's hard enough to get fighting in highsec at the best of times. Let's throw *all* the highsec dudes a bone, no matter what part of the food chain they're on, yeah?

(I don't really feel like this post was up to snuff, but it's late and they can't all be gold.)

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#4 - 2012-01-25 09:30:35 UTC  |  Edited by: sYnc Vir
Or you could jump into this Low Sec place, and bring the war to whomever you like. I will never understand the appeal of clubbing baby seals in high sec. Its worse pvp then the "Lock, F1, Lock F1" blob warfare down in null.

If you're an honest to god pvper, go to the place pvp is your only daily.

Also, not for nothing but things like Dec Shields cost alot of money to set up, not to mention the time and isk to train a toon to sit in it. If you don't like like the baby seals using this as get out, then you always have the gank o dessi.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#5 - 2012-01-25 21:56:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Outz Xacto
Psychotic Monk wrote:
While I applaud your idea, I think we can try to do something a bit more binding than this suggestion. That way it's a fix that cuts both ways. When you're a carebear 24 hours of war following you isn't enough. How about if I can't hop into a dec you can't shed a dec?

To be clear: I am not trolling. The war dec mechanics are broken. Your fix only really helps carebears. I know it's hard enough to get fighting in highsec at the best of times. Let's throw *all* the highsec dudes a bone, no matter what part of the food chain they're on, yeah?

(I don't really feel like this post was up to snuff, but it's late and they can't all be gold.)


First if we took everything the OP said I agree with you its very one sided. However, just examining the follow period:

The 24 hour period is a benefit to both sides, preventing abusive war dec use to simply grief the decced corp and preventing carebears from simply logging in leaving corp then rejoining when done playing for the day.

I think you'd agree if someone is declaring war on a corporation, and then avoiding their own war dec because they dont want to pvp is contradictory. Need a "War decs, you're doing it wrong".jpg for this type of thinking. As such a 24 hour follow period for the war deccer is only to prevent stupid shinanigans, in the event someone is actually leaving the corp, its not so long that it makes leaving pointless.

I suppose we could argue the duration of the war dec follow period mechanics, could be something that is based off the remaining period of the war dec to a minimum duration of say somewhere in the range of 6-12 hours.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#6 - 2012-01-25 22:58:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
Psychotic Monk wrote:
While I applaud your idea, I think we can try to do something a bit more binding than this suggestion. That way it's a fix that cuts both ways. When you're a carebear 24 hours of war following you isn't enough. How about if I can't hop into a dec you can't shed a dec?

To be clear: I am not trolling. The war dec mechanics are broken. Your fix only really helps carebears. I know it's hard enough to get fighting in highsec at the best of times. Let's throw *all* the highsec dudes a bone, no matter what part of the food chain they're on, yeah?

(I don't really feel like this post was up to snuff, but it's late and they can't all be gold.)



Then i start lot of alt corps and wardec all biggest corps for ever so people can never change corporation again or those corporations can not join alliance
Mentalsmith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-01-26 00:35:09 UTC
I did not mean for it to seem like I was trying to protect care bear corps at all. If my suggestion does this, then it should be slightly altered.

The point is that I don't particularly like the constant PvP of nullsec or low sec, so I don't do it. I'll be honest, this is my first war, and If all war is like this in high sec, it should be removed from high sec all together.

The cool down for high sec for leaving the corp is probably the best option, though the time frame can be adjusted. Maybe a 12 hour cool down instead of 24.

The only thing I would alter is preventing people joining a corp that is currently at war in high sec from participating in that war dec.


This way, if you declare war and then you can't do anything like our enemy at this time, they can't drop and do stuff and then join up and start trying to gank us again.

This means that at some point, you will run out of people to fight us if they all keep trying to dodge the war, and you will be forced to call truce. If you want to fight at full strength, you'll have to call a truce and redeclare again.

Last addition to this is to have the truce include a cease fire agreement in which neither corporation can take aggressive action towards another without serious repercussions, either simply a fine or possible a piece of the security status of the corp.


In my opinion, these things would close the loop holes in high sec warfare that let it be used to grief other corps with little to no consequences to the person declaring.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-01-26 01:21:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
There is a side to the coin that you aren't considering, however. That is that the risk/reward ratio is way off for the various kinds of 'sec' out there.
The war dec hurts care bears because it endangers free income, which is part of the underlying issue, not something that needs protecting.
If the rewards possible in high sec were as modest as the risk- then I would agree completely.

Compared to the risk/reward of low sec, high is ridiculous. Null is slightly better, if you have the SP and wallet to really get into the end game industry only possible out there.

While I don't always agree with all of their ideas- look at these forums and notice all the threads about moving Ice Fields, Incursions, and other high isk grinding activities, to low sec.
Clearly, I'm not the only one that sees the fundamental balance issue in Eve is not this or that ship or module, but rather the entire nature of the risk/reward ratio for New Eden's various locales.

You want it to just be about ganking some poor newb in an Osprey. But it's much more involved than that. The war dec is underused in fact, although I agree it's also abused as often as not.

Lastly, and I'm not accusing anyone in this thread, I'm just generalizing- but most of the people that I know that share the complaints of war decs making it hard to **** roids while watching daytime television- are 'weekend PvP'ers'.
They want to jump a clone, dab a foot into low or null to hopefully pick up a kill mail- but then be able to 'tag safe' and not be touched.
That's sort of weak IMO, and I've been on the wrong end of a war dec as a total newb mission runner too. It was a mild inconvenience and I quickly learned that even care bears are BEARS and should have claws and teeth. It's a video game, don't be a pansy. Dock up, change to something with guns and do something about it. Better to die with honor than cower in the Captain's Quarters, Barbie
Switching off an entire game mechanic when suits your fancy once again defeats the entire premise of Risk/Reward.

When someone DECLARES WAR on you....if you aren't willing to risk undocking....then you shouldn't get any reward possible either. I know it sounds callous and pirate (I'm not BTW) but I'm only pointing to the fundamental notion of how New Eden is supposed to work!
Mentalsmith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-01-26 03:46:34 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:


When someone DECLARES WAR on you....if you aren't willing to risk undocking....then you shouldn't get any reward possible either. I know it sounds callous and pirate (I'm not BTW) but I'm only pointing to the fundamental notion of how New Eden is supposed to work!



I wanted to address this in particular. They declared on us, and we beat them at every turn and forced them into camping in their own HQ. They then started dropping corp to move ships around and get out of it.

Also, they would drop corp and find one of our guys mining, get accepted back into corp, kill him, and then leave the corp again, preventing us for retaliating.

These two examples are exactly the reason why it needs to be addressed, and hopefully in the ways that i specified above.





Again, I've never played a null sec character or in a null sec corp. To it's advantages and disadvantages I cannot attest, but to be able to do something like popping our miner and then dropping corp is pretty much the same thing that bothers you, people killing you and then retreating to a place where you can't retaliate.
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#10 - 2012-01-26 07:30:19 UTC
I like the idea of delays in joining or leaving a corp that's part of a wardec, or even locking membership while a 'dec is acive. The question that needs to be answered in those situations, though, is how do you prevent a corp from becoming permadecced to prevent griefing?

Some ideas, not necessarily well thought out, but off the top of my head:

1) Put any corp that has just been through a week-long wardec on a 48 hour immunity timer. While this timer is active, they can neither be 'decced, nor issue a 'dec, unless it is mutual.

2) Make a sustained wardec have en exponentially increasing fee. First week, it's X; second week, it's 2X; third week, it's 4X, etc.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#11 - 2012-01-26 22:35:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Griznatch
My idear: put timers on join/leave for corps regardless of war status. Example: if you join a corp you're stuck there for 48 hours, and/or if you leave a corp you cant rejoin that same corp for 48 hours. Increasing the timers during a war wouldn't be terrible either.


Being able to hop in and out of a corp a dozen times in a day is a joke, regardless of why you do it.

Edit: hey who stole my sig!?

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
Assyrinja
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-01-28 11:08:01 UTC
A few days ago were were wardecced by a corp who seems to avoid warfare. I just found out that members of the corp leave the corp during war for one or two days to do their other business like transports and then rejoin the corp.
Leaving the corp during a war surely is not an exploit but what about leaving for a day or two and rejoining just to avoid warfare or to do any other business ?
YUMAD BRO
ZZ Cow
#13 - 2012-01-30 19:25:46 UTC
Mentalsmith wrote:
[quote=Alaric Faelen]

Also, they would drop corp and find one of our guys mining, get accepted back into corp, kill him, and then leave the corp again, preventing us for retaliating.






If they are rejoining while in space to shoot you that is against CCP rules and is a banable offence.








NUBS
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#14 - 2012-01-30 20:22:19 UTC
But wouldn't preventing people from joining hinder larger mercs corps? For example, orphanage has multiple decs going on. To gain new members, they would have to drop all decs. Seems like you would be punishing the mercs company in this case.

And what of alliances? Would corps be unable to join is leave an alliance because of a war dec? My corp joins a new alliance that promises protection and fleet ops in case of war. After 2 days, I realize the alliance is a joke, poorly run, and not worth my corps' time. Am I stuck in this alliance for the rest of the war dec?

Now I'm not saying your idea lacks merit. A cool down time may be the best option. You just need to flush out the details more. and honestly, nothing may ever be perfect as hi sec wars are a tad screwy.
Borun Tal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-01-31 00:28:37 UTC
Mentalsmith wrote:
Is effing lame.


Sorta like wardec'ing easy targets (carebear corps)?

Playground bullies vs hardcore street fighting: which are you? Blink