Ships & Modules

A lot of people missed another note in the patch that brought the Tier3 ships: Player ships now drop more salvage than they previously did. Exhumers can drop 0-3 Intact Armor plates which can really balance out the cost of the gank.

Moved from General Discussion.

How can you get 3+ macks per tornado loss?

True, but I'm just trying to illustrate that it IS profitable.

You can gank miners all day, in T2 Tornados, without insurance - and STILL come out well ahead, just on drops and salvage alone - OUTSIDE of other 'arrangements' made with Miners.

This is important for two reasons:
You can gank profitably with destroyers, but it requires a group of like minded individuals.

Solo ganking with Tornados is easier because it does not require coordination with others. Unfortunately, many have the flawed perception that they will gank Exhumers at a loss - which limits ganking to players with wealth to burn.

This is false - you can solo gank miners all day, with T2 Tornados, and earn ISK! Ever since releasing the Tornado, ganking Exhumers has actually become a viable profession - and a fun one too.

What would you rather do?
Gank miners, get KMs, laffs and tears at a loss?
Or gank miners, get KMs, laffas and tears - and earn ISK doing it?

Most botted/afk macs don't initiate warp when a tornado arrives in belt. Tornados will probably fire 3 volleys in 0.5 before concord arrives. The volley damage is larger than the typical crap fit mack - which is about 9k ehp. The cyclic dps is normal, but due to the volley its frontloaded, and massive when measured over a small finite number of volleys.

If its botted/afk you can use your scout to check the fit to choose the victims without scaring the horses, so you can choose to pretty much ensure you get 3 kills if there are plenty in an ice belt.

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Due to the low EHP, a gank tornado is itself very gankable, but its unlikely you'll achieve that at the moment of belt conflict even if you have a brutix or tornado sitting there yourself. All you can really do is randomly patrol and randomly gank tornados, which might make you some very angry new acquaintances.

Such is the security of high security :)

Its cute when carebears speculate on things they don't understand. Most of these kills are happening in 0.7 ice belts.

No wonder why tornado sells more than the other 3 tier3 bc-s alltogeather :P
CCP should look into arties , those are definately broken.

oh my corp wants me to buy tornado too , im so insulted :(

LOL. what?

Just because you can instapop several Exhumers in a row? Hardly makes it overpowered. Just efficient in this 'brave' new era of 'no insurance for gankers'. And , besides - it has less to do with the artillery and more to do with the Tornado itself.

Carebears whine, gankers adapt and improve their methods.

If you have to go back to popping one Exhumer at a time like with the old Tempests, well, you are taking a loss on each kill - and that stacks up if you are trying to kill hundreds of them (mostly botters).

Why you want to take the bread out of my mouth? Jerk.

- I think the Tornado is quite fun - a huge improvement for the ganking profession.
- There is plenty that can be done about it, but most miners don't bother because it slows down their mining or is hard to automate.
- I don't believe that miners have some kind of 'right' to mine unmolested. If you undock, you are in a combat zone. End of story. If you want to make ISK without getting ganked, stick to station trading in Jita until you go insane.

-RMT leader? Hell no, I earned my billions the honest way. Killing carebears and investing the profits from their broken ships into other things that make ISK.....like building more Hulks and Mackinaws.

I've just noticed that there are two kinds of ice-mining botters.
Type A) The hardcore, Chinese sweatshop kind with generated names, that never speak, block convo, identical fits, never reply and die in droves. If you do enough damage, you eventually hear from the ringleader.

Type B) The more casual players looking for easy ISK while they are at work. Their Mackinaws faithfully mine and unload like clockwork all day, until you kill them. Then the pod floats there for hours - or better yet, flies back and forth until you pod them a couple minutes later.

I've noticed that botters are much more likely to pay large sums of ISK to be left alone. I don't have a problem with taking their ISK because I have no way of knowing 'for sure' if they are botting, CCP doesn't give us the tools to know for sure and they prefer 'technical means' of identifying them to behavioral analysis. All I can do is report them every day I see them.

Actual living miners are fun too, because they tend to get upset when you kill them, and are fun to chase down and pop, and watching them go through one fail-fit after another.....

If you get ganked you are doin it wrong, try again.
The tornado is an excellent ganking machine, however all ganks on subcapitals (not counting orca) are very easily avoided if you fly the right ships, and you fly them good, to haul your precious goods. cov ops cloaky hauler for one is virtually impossible to gank in highsec unless its on undock.