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Cost Effectiveness of T2 Ammo

Author
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
No Handlebars.
#1 - 2012-01-25 14:49:20 UTC
Running 0.0 Anoms in a tengu vs Sansha, getting about 400 DPS with T1 Thunderbolts which is enough, but its not exactly ganky, is cost effective to use T2 Missiles (High Damage/Precision), and how much isk will i burn through in comparison to using T1??

Thanks in Advanced
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2 - 2012-01-25 14:52:11 UTC
If you're running anoms and still wondering about the cost , something is going wrong

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Kaanchana
Tax-haven
#3 - 2012-01-25 15:01:55 UTC
You will have a noticeable difference in damage but since tengu has a boost only for kinetic damage, u won't match the full potential.

Also u'll have at least 2 volleys in space before the npc dies from the previous ones so that's 2 volleys wasted for every bs rat if you are orbiting at 50+ kms. You can avoid it if you are volley counting but its only practical for bc rats.

One trick i find useful is to switch targets to the next rat when the current target gets to1/4th structure damage. If you are orbiting at 60+ km then the volleys in space will finish him off. this way u don't have to count. But even this gets tedious after sometime so now i use only t1 missiles. A bit slow but it will get the job done anyway.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
No Handlebars.
#4 - 2012-01-25 15:14:34 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
If you're running anoms and still wondering about the cost , something is going wrong



Im running anoms, in Providence......

However Nightmare BPC this last weekend :D
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
#5 - 2012-01-25 15:42:33 UTC
Get a Golem or CNR ;)
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#6 - 2012-01-25 15:47:35 UTC
I believe that you may have missed my point.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
No Handlebars.
#7 - 2012-01-25 15:59:34 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
I believe that you may have missed my point.



My point was Provi isn't precisely valuable space, the rats aren't great compared to a lot of other places.

But yes, its not a huge cost, I guess Im just tight with my iskies.

And while a Golem or CNR might be better for some things, there tanks are significantly weaker when you count the speed and low sig of a Tengu, that and a cruiser sized hulls GTFO ability is very useful for null, not to mention being able to go cloaky nulli at a moments notice.
Squidgey
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-01-25 16:00:10 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Running 0.0 Anoms in a tengu vs Sansha, getting about 400 DPS with T1 Thunderbolts which is enough, but its not exactly ganky, is cost effective to use T2 Missiles (High Damage/Precision), and how much isk will i burn through in comparison to using T1??

Thanks in Advanced

2 million for every 3 thousand missiles.

If you really wanna know, find a mission with respawns (and bounties) and see what your ticks are with and without the ammo.

I personally think it is worth it, swapping back only when the exploded sig radius is causing a problem with my tank or I am shooting at cruisers.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
No Handlebars.
#9 - 2012-01-25 16:04:10 UTC
Thought they removed the penalties on T2 Missiles??
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2012-01-25 17:13:55 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Thought they removed the penalties on T2 Missiles??


Yeah, they said they were going to. Then it didn't happen. Go figure.
Fozzy Dorsai
Friendly but Irritating
#11 - 2012-01-25 19:41:50 UTC
I have run the test across a couple of missions I was farming one week and generally find that using T1 will save ISK and T2 will save time. Decide what is more important for you. I tend to just use T2 on the BS and T1 on everything else which helps the inner frugal.
That said, Tengu loses a lot of efficiency against BS heavy Sansha and Blood missions, so I'll typically use a CNR in those. Still the Tengu has more "fun" factor, IMHO.
Tierius Fro
Coronado's Cross
#12 - 2012-01-25 20:07:53 UTC
I almost never use T2 ammo in PVE, unless I fell like I need an extra edge. Even when I have run anoms in null sec.

http://ridingevewormhole.blogspot.com/

Spineker
#13 - 2012-01-25 20:58:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Yes T2 are worth every shot. There is no way to argue otherwise. If you are making the kind of cash I think you are I agree with the guy above you missed his point.

I can understand someone with no money trying to save a few isk per kill but really killign anons and worried about buying T2 missiles?

Faction now yeah that is a waste for PVE.


With Em Fury I get 601 DPS compared to standard 456 DPS

The idea that Tengu gimped without kinetic is also another myth. You still get ROF Vel and other bonuses regardless of missile used.
Spineker
#14 - 2012-01-25 21:10:48 UTC
Kaanchana wrote:
You will have a noticeable difference in damage but since tengu has a boost only for kinetic damage, u won't match the full potential.

Also u'll have at least 2 volleys in space before the npc dies from the previous ones so that's 2 volleys wasted for every bs rat if you are orbiting at 50+ kms. You can avoid it if you are volley counting but its only practical for bc rats.




Any missile boat driver should have volley count down as second nature.


Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#15 - 2012-01-26 00:19:54 UTC
Tierius Fro wrote:
I almost never use T2 ammo in PVE, unless I fell like I need an extra edge. Even when I have run anoms in null sec.


LOL, we all different.

I now virtually always use T2 ammo for PvEcombat - hisec, lowsec, nullsec, & w-space. I build my own, so usually cheaper than on-market, but also buy from market when I runout and am not near my own supplies.

I haven't done the math in any detail but my understanding / reasoning is that everything is quicker with t2 weapons / ammo, but that many things can also be done and done cheaper using T1 equivalents.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Spineker
#16 - 2012-01-26 00:55:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
It cost 14000 more isk to kill a 540k Gurista BS using T2, and you will kill it about 15 to 20 or so seconds faster. Just using that as a base line.


100 BS cost 1.4 million more ISK to kill using T2 missiles

However you make 54 million isk from the BS kills and you kill them faster at the tune of 25 mins to 30 mins faster.

SO if you think about it you will actually lose money using T1 ammo over the long run.

Because in that 30 mins you could have killed another 10 BS or FAR MORE and made another 5.4 million which is almost 4 times what you paid out for T2 missiles instead of wasting time and money with T1 missiles. UghLolShocked


Everyone straight now? Bear
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#17 - 2012-01-26 01:06:16 UTC
Spineker wrote:
Everyone straight now? Bear


as a row of tents.

oh, wait ....

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Mardero
#18 - 2012-01-26 04:03:28 UTC
How about faction ammo vs T2? Anyone prefer faction because of the drawbacks of T2?
river Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-01-26 13:12:55 UTC
Mardero wrote:
How about faction ammo vs T2? Anyone prefer faction because of the drawbacks of T2?


Too expensive for the dps increase. Its only really viable on those 4 gun ships with the bonus. Or laser crystals.
Katherine Starlight
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-01-26 13:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Starlight
do you count the time , 10 second reload times, needed to swap ammo to kill frigs? with T1 you can just spam on, shoot everything nonstop. it does not do "that" much difference in the end.
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