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Warfare & Tactics

 
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New AF'S
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McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#1 - 2012-01-25 10:59:33 UTC
I recently joined RvB and in the process of relearning PvP after 3/4 year of abstinence, so I'd like to use those along with T1 stuff because they seem very capable right now. Basically I'd like to hear general opinions about them, how they do vs destroyers and T1 cruisers especially, strengths and weaknesses and tactics. After some EFt warrioring it seems to me that Harpy is the overall best AF right now because of ideal slot layout, insane range for a frig, good DPS and tank and ability to perform well with rails as well as blasters, c/d?
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#2 - 2012-01-25 11:30:54 UTC
McRoll wrote:
I recently joined RvB and in the process of relearning PvP after 3/4 year of abstinence, so I'd like to use those along with T1 stuff because they seem very capable right now. Basically I'd like to hear general opinions about them, how they do vs destroyers and T1 cruisers especially, strengths and weaknesses and tactics. After some EFt warrioring it seems to me that Harpy is the overall best AF right now because of ideal slot layout, insane range for a frig, good DPS and tank and ability to perform well with rails as well as blasters, c/d?



A well-fit destroyer will wreck an AF. The whole point of destroyers is to wreck frigates and they do that very well.

T1 cruisers are less clear. If a T1 cruiser is specifically set up to crap on frigates (AML caracal, neuting/webbing dual 180 rupture...) then it will win. Otherwise, the AF stands a good chance. Afterburner + nos are good mods to have when engaging larger ship classes.


The main downside of the Harpy is that it's a brick as far as frigs are concerned.
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#3 - 2012-01-25 11:47:02 UTC
Hmm when I look at the EHP/DPS numbers, a Harpy could outlast a Thrasher due to way higher resists and can apply as much DPS, I think around 300 with light neutrons or around 200 with rails at greater distance. Don't hang up on numbers, I cannot look up my fits right now but as fas as I remember it looked better on paper. I think it would be very close.

Also, it does around 2200 m/s with MWD, all the shield tanked AF's are pretty similar. I try to fit them with MWD's now because I want to utilize the bonuses. Harpy is best suited to that because of slot layout, shield tank and great range, it would kite an AB frig to death using a web and rails.

But anyway, lets discuss this and hear more opinions, will provide some fits later on.
Paradox H
EVE University
Ivy League
#4 - 2012-01-25 14:20:53 UTC
McRoll wrote:
it would kite an AB frig to death using a web and rails.



If you're in web range you're also in scram range so there goes your mwd... will look forward to your fits

Assault ships are certainly going to be a lot more interesting now!
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#5 - 2012-01-25 14:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: McRoll
By this I am assuming he doesnt land to zero on you. If you come into his scram range your MWD shuts off but you also have your web applied to him and your previous speed might be enough to carry you out again.

Its theory and can go either way and depends on what ship your enemy flies. I just mean that it helps you control range and you can apply some volleys on him before he scrams you and can apply his damage. Kiting in frigs is difficult because everything happens so fast and I need to fly the Harpy a bit before I can evaluate this.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-25 14:49:58 UTC
You should also avoid Arbitrators and Vexors in an AF. 5 light drones can ruin your day. They also often fit neuts.

I cant speak to the other races, but the enyo and ishkur both got a good buff. The ishkur is more tanky or ganky and the enyo is more tackley and ganky. I think they are better heavy tackle with the MWD bonus. A corpmate says neuts will still screw them. But that is the case for any tackler. We will see how they shake out.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#7 - 2012-01-25 14:52:10 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
A well-fit and expertly piloted destroyer will wreck an AF if the AF pilot makes mistakes or isn't paying attention. The whole point of destroyers is to wreck frigates and they do that very well...

Missed a bit so I filled it out for you.

In high-/lowsec where you have loads of stuff to warp-to-zero on (including enemies), destroyers rarely get to take full advantage of their superior tracking/dps .. I have personally taken down well fit Trash in Punishers in FW so sincerely doubt AFs will much resistance unless the pilot is new to the frigate class.

The Wolf/Ishkur are still Gods among men while the Caldari hulls are close to joining the pantheon .. most surprising to me is that the Jag seems to have lost a bit of power 'relatively', still trying to figure it out but think that an armour/eWar fit might be really, really nasty.
Klown Walk
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-01-25 15:17:15 UTC
I got a pvp fitted retribution down to hull before dying by a mistake in a merlin, so I don´t think they are much better.
Skelee VI
Appetite 4 Destruction
#9 - 2012-01-25 15:30:19 UTC
Klown Walk wrote:
I got a pvp fitted retribution down to hull before dying by a mistake in a merlin, so I don´t think they are much better.

You suck LOL. How you get beat by a merlin. Retribution should have chewed it up.
the buff on Af are nice but you still have to be careful, especially with destroyers like a thrasher if fitted to kill frigs. I think you have to decide betwwen brawler fit or kite fit then go from there.


Klown Walk
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-01-25 15:57:49 UTC
Skelee VI wrote:
Klown Walk wrote:
I got a pvp fitted retribution down to hull before dying by a mistake in a merlin, so I don´t think they are much better.

You suck LOL. How you get beat by a merlin. Retribution should have chewed it up.
the buff on Af are nice but you still have to be careful, especially with destroyers like a thrasher if fitted to kill frigs. I think you have to decide betwwen brawler fit or kite fit then go from there.




I used the merlin... and you can active tank it well, I took 7300 dmg before dying.
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#11 - 2012-01-25 16:43:18 UTC
I came up with this for Harpy so far:

[TEST Harpy, rails]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Faint Warp Disruptor I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I

125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Ancillary Current Router I



[TEST Harpy, blasters]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Both fits have 2200 m/s, around 11,5 k EHP and deal between 200-300 DPS for rails/blasters. They only work with serious fitting skills and genolution+ pg implants though, but one can remove tre launcher or downgrade guns. Haven't managed to fit other af's so that they surpass this in overall effectiveness.
Paradox H
EVE University
Ivy League
#12 - 2012-01-25 18:45:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Paradox H
McRoll wrote:
I
[TEST Harpy, blasters]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Both fits have 2200 m/s, around 11,5 k EHP and deal between 200-300 DPS for rails/blasters. They only work with serious fitting skills and genolution+ pg implants though, but one can remove tre launcher or downgrade guns. Haven't managed to fit other af's so that they surpass this in overall effectiveness.


Just a thought on the Blaster fit (am at work so all this is un-tried) could you drop the neutrons to ions and then swap out the ACR for a damage rig and achieve similar dps? Or maybe t2 one of the other mids? Or keep the mids as are and fit a nos or neut in the empty high slot?
river Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-01-26 00:06:36 UTC
I dont get how your supposed to solo in an AF with a MWD and scram. The enemy dessie/frig will most likely have a scram. Even with a web i think your still a little screwed or am i missing something? I dont have much pvp experience
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#14 - 2012-01-26 01:20:33 UTC
Guys check out some cool fits for my beloved harpys:

[Harpy, RailHarpy - Pitbulls not mine]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25

75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I


[Harpy, Blarpy buffer]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1MN Afterburner II
Invulnerability Field II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
[empty high slot]

Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I

^^16.5k ehp with 300 dps

[Harpy, Ion Medium SHield Boosted]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Medium Shield Booster II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I

Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
[empty high slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Stukkler Tian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-01-26 02:00:41 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
[quote=Kahega Amielden] the Jag seems to have lost a bit of power 'relatively', still trying to figure it out but think that an armour/eWar fit might be really, really nasty.



a td armor jag is now really nasty just fit ab web td scram then dcu 200plate sar and adaptive or explosive resist and with a vamp and 150s and it is the sickness. Tried it a few times before the patch with horrible results but the new tracking bonus along with an extra low for resist mod makes the armor jag a very dangerous boat (the jags ability to dictate range actually matters before that ability was hunky dory but you couldnt really use to your advantage.)
ps. still hate this buff
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#16 - 2012-01-26 07:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: McRoll
river Zateki wrote:
I dont get how your supposed to solo in an AF with a MWD and scram. The enemy dessie/frig will most likely have a scram. Even with a web i think your still a little screwed or am i missing something? I dont have much pvp experience


It depends on many things, where and how you solo and against who. I fly mostly in a gang in RvB for now, so for me it is more important to be fast and catch somebody and be able to maintain range or to gtfo if odds are bad, so I prefer MWD for that task.

If I would do a 1v1 I'd choose an AB however because you know that your opponent will engage you. It allows you to fit more stuff and you have more cap in addition to be able to move faster while scrambled.

For engaging cruisers, it's difficult to say. If you land to zero, AB is better for orbiting and mitigating damage of course but a nano Ruppie or similar is gonna ruin your day if you start farther away with AB. I dont have experience in soloing cruisers with new AF's so I hope somebody will give tips.

Edit: @Paradox: you can certainly downgrade but I wanted Neutrons to achieve highest possible range with blasters and Null, otherwise one can use a t2 anc router rig and downgrade guns to cram a small nos in there or other t2 rigs all depending on wallet
Din Chao
#17 - 2012-01-26 15:58:08 UTC
3/4 year abstinence?!

I'd rather kill myself...
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#18 - 2012-01-27 07:18:26 UTC
Well, it became quite boring searching for targets in highsec wars in my old corp who would never come out and lowsec piracy wasn't that exciting as well after a while, just farming dudes on gates. Solo wasnt really an option because I didnt want to spend hours flying around and I'm not exactly rich in terms of isk.

RvB is probably best if you want to log in and have decent PvP within an hour.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-01-29 17:27:46 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
A well-fit and expertly piloted destroyer will wreck an AF if the AF pilot makes mistakes or isn't paying attention. The whole point of destroyers is to wreck frigates and they do that very well...

Missed a bit so I filled it out for you.

In high-/lowsec where you have loads of stuff to warp-to-zero on (including enemies), destroyers rarely get to take full advantage of their superior tracking/dps .. I have personally taken down well fit Trash in Punishers in FW so sincerely doubt AFs will much resistance unless the pilot is new to the frigate class.

The Wolf/Ishkur are still Gods among men while the Caldari hulls are close to joining the pantheon .. most surprising to me is that the Jag seems to have lost a bit of power 'relatively', still trying to figure it out but think that an armour/eWar fit might be really, really nasty.


And you of course have been out practising in these new Assault Frigates since they came out not just playing numbers in EFT?

You are a very good pilot when you actually fly, but the last time I saw you do it was last year....

(http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=960693087)

Get out and TRY them!!
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#20 - 2012-01-29 22:00:57 UTC
Well, basically, you had better kite cruisers, because a neut will still ruin your day, just as it always has.

AFs are now more viable, but they are still frigates, and vulnerable to the things frigates have always been vulnerable too.

Be seeing the OP around Ako I guess, Red is best :)