EVE General Discussion

To the people who are quitting because you cant afford to plex multiple accounts if vanguards get nerfed I say **** off you lazy greedy cheap bastards.

Nerf Vg's by 20% and buff others by at least 20%. Make raw ISK from all sites down to 60% and LP up to 40% to trickle some ISK into the economy instead of flooding it.

Level 5 missions were moved from high for being too profitable and too easy and we see the same thing with incursions. Raises the possibility of moving level 5 missions back to high.

Make CONCORD loyalty point stores need insignias, possibly non player created objects as well for some items (perhaps rethink the no salvage and have a few items drop in sites), to force the same market PvP that many other PvE users need to do. Or remove all insignias from all loyalty point stores.

No payouts at all until incursion mothership is killed. Reduce the amounts paid depending on time taken to kill the mothership by five percent each hour starting two hours after it is sighted. have a one percent chance each hour that the mom is not killed for sansha to take full control of a system and give no payout. Have a big countdown timer so players can see how long it has been since mothership has been killable.

Incursions are not invasions. Sansha should not sit there for a week so no one week long incursions. Force people to move about more.

Have more random events related to incursions. Varied waves, roving sansha support fleets that need to be probed down and killed or they can warp into a site, and anything else to break up the monotony of incursions. Even have seven or eight incursions spawn in high at the same time to stretch resources as long as sansha have a chance of winning the incursions somehow.

Dont have the crap sansha withdrawing, let sansha take full control of a constellation if they are not defeated quick enough and have any adjacent constellations with incursions have slightly more ships and be slightly harder to defeat. Every day sansha control a constellation make it a little harder to retake it.

Let sansha attack POS's to remove abandoned or undefended POS's.

Dont let vanguards lower influence penalties.

A lot of people are making claims to a community and the use of voice comms as if it is something really important in incursions. It is not. incursions are boring and the only reason you do them is for the massive amount of ISK you get for no real effort or risk and you dont give a flying **** about any community or comms as long as the ISK is flowing.

The comms for an ota might go "Align down gate", "Logis L up", "Go go go", "deltole is primary", "deltole", last deltole", "drones in and align". That is it again and again. All that changes is the target order for other sites and saying to the ore dropper to go.

The community? Only used to find fleets, people have nothing in common and the only reason there is any interaction is to find fleets. Some interaction is better than none but dont kid yourself in thinking there is a community here.

2) is actually a reason why incursions as they currently stand are utterly awful. There's, y'know, risk inside wormholes. That's why the rewards are high. Taking that level of reward but stripping it of all the risk and effort needed and dumping it in hisec for the masses is a bad thing, it isn't balanced and skews (even more so) the distribution of players through the different types of areas and gameplay.

Lowsec is small and incursions are a pita for day to day roaming. No thanks, one is plenty.

L4 missions vary way to much, and are far less risky to provide the kind of rewards you're suggesting. The NPC's in L4's are far less tanked than that of an Incursion Sansha. There is a much greater risk of loosing your ship, despite the fact that it takes 2 logi's and 7/8 other non-shiny ships for DPS to kill off the site. I understand that many people want Incursions Nerfed as far as payout, but, to bring it to L4 levels is not smart when it comes to the risk involved in killing the Incursion specific NPC's. Your suggestion is way to generalized to be taken seriously IMO.

Far too much tears and stupidity in this thread from people who seem to hate the fact people are rolling isk in highsec, deal with it

If Incursions end up paying as much as L4's no one will do Incursions, what's the reward in taking the time and effort to form up a fleet when you could spend that time making isk solo?

Nerfing VG pay so it's less than an L4 for the average fleet will result in less people doing Vanguards. Nerfing the Blitz without affecting the pay will keep them open to casual low DPS pug fleets while shiny fleets will look to Assault/HQ's for better income (which need reworking for isk/hr to be more attractive)

Incursions shouldn't however, be farmed for weeks on end. Put up a 4 day timer before the Mothership can spawn, if Nation influence is at zero as soon as day 4 hits, Mom is up. The mothership then has a 72 hour timer before it despawns, thus giving most incursions a week to be cleared.

Asking for the ships to have drops and salvage will kill off pug fleets, they are not standard rats. Also more random drops is going to hit the mineral market harder, and miners have it bad enough as it is.

That's the short version of it, I'll come up with a more thorough responce for sites types later. Yes Incursions need to be fixed, the focus needs to move away from Vanguards and endless farming needs to be dealt with.

I feel that something that should be re-iterated is that EVE is, at it's core, a player vs. player experience. This is even expressed in the indirect competition of mining, industry, and research; and the direct competition of the market and PvP combat.

EVE has always appeared to maintain a balance between risk and reward, but I also feel that it is worth noting that there is a difference between difficulty and risk. It should be noted that the implication has always been that the risk is due to threat of other players involvement. NPC's represent difficulty. Other players represent risk. No carebear has ever sat on a gate leading to low-sec, afraid to jump, because the NPC's at the gravimetric site he found might be too strong for him.

In the current EVE implementation, the reward : difficulty : risk ratio scales inversely proportional to the security status of the system in most cases. Still there are some exceptions, such as Class 1 wormholes where the reward and diffulty are low to moderate yet the risk is extreme because you risk losing your ship, your pod, and (if your clone is not sufficiently updated) weeks off your training queue.

Conversely, high-sec incursions allow for extreme rewards, high difficulty, and almost zero risk.

Incursion Bears have managed to find a way to band together to overcome a difficult task and make a profit. Good for them. I don't run incursions, but I do feel that the fact that my null-sec alliance periodically has a day where we all pack up and jump clone to high-sec because "that's where the ISK is" indicates a problem with the current system.

My suggestion, then is to introduce some actual risk into incursions.

Option 1: Treat Incursion constellations as low-sec in terms of concord response. Fleets will learn to watch their D-Scanner and pick up some PvP experience along the way.

AND / OR

Option 2: Lower the security status by 0.1 for each time period (24 hours?) the Incursion is in effect. When the security status reaches 0.0, Sansha has "taken" a constellation and the Incursion spreads to a nearby constellation. Once the incursion has been cleared, the security status will return at a rate of +0.1 per day until the systems return to their natural security status.

This will encourage people to clear the entire Incursion faster, and will introduce enough risk (not difficulty) to justify the rewards.

AND / OR

Option 3: Allow corporations and alliances (but not individual players) to join Sansha as a Faction Warfare participant in which they may participate in open PvP in Incursion zones. Allow us to set up / take bunkers (or whatever) to reinforce the incursion in an area. Incursion bears could take their LP to concord; we could take our LP to Sansha. This could be expanded by having hidden Sansha agents that must be scanned down in highsec that offer missions (that must be completed by a large group, similar to anti-incursion fleets) that could actually trigger an incursion (such as destroying a concord facility in the system). With a system like this, flesh out Incursions into a truly immersive experience for everyone. Incursions would be less mechanical, and feel *real* for everyone involved. This option allows for both PvP (to have some actual risk in Incursions) and deply immersive player-driven role-playing, as well as providing what is essentially a high-sec war mechanic that is not easily avoidable.

Sadly Miilla can't post here herself. As surprising as it might sound, her spelling is not the reason.

Miilla > i bet once the bar on CONTROL of incurions heads towards 0% effective the rewards will stop paying out or go low
Miilla > so thatll slow up farming lol

Depending on your activity and the time incursions are up they are already on the level of level 4 missions (ISK/hr). Sometines you waste so much time with travel and fleet search they that you need several hours of constant fleet action to make up for this.
Sometimes you end up instantly in a good fleet, end up winning all contested sites and you do way more than in l4s.
And sometimes you just move your ship(s) over to the incursion and it gone before you actually did make decent protif.

While I agree that vgs are dull and are to good in comparsion to other sites, I see a problem in decreasing vg income without reducing some of the factors mentioned above. Longer incursions, and better progression for forming fleets to step from scouts up to vanguards to assaults and hq would be very nice. As well downgrading should be as easy as possible imo. Fluid game play and such, sitting in chat and looking for fleet is not challenging, its not fun, it simply adds nothing to the game.

CCP, never take something away from high-sec and put it exclusively in null sec. I agree with making it more profitable in null/low sec but never remove it entirely unless it is removed from the whole game. If the null-dwellers want more people out there with them then maybe they should work on better recruiting or maybe a tourism outreach program.

CCp if you listen to this kinda junk just remove the incursions .