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Orbiting Planets - like real space :o
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Hadez411
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-01-22 18:43:53 UTC
To add some intrigue to the game, I'd like to see planets actually rotate on these otherwise useless rings they sit on which are supposed to represent their orbital path.

Now, my assumption is that it would be too much strain to move them frequently, but how about at the end of each month? Or every half a year if thats too much? As often as possible would be great, but again I dont know howmuch that would drag out down time, or what kind of algorithm they could come up with and how efficient it would be to move the planets X distance around their orbital path and to re-locate the customs offices and other items anchored to the planet/moon.

It would make for more interesting game play though, bubbles would have to be re-positioned, certain gates would be great tactical areas to camp certain times of month/year depending on what lines up with what and howmany AU shorter or longer the warp becomes, putting people on or off directional scan. Im sure there's a ton of other things it would subtly affect, but those were the first to come to mind.


Any game breaking effects anyone can think of?
Atticus Fynch
#2 - 2012-01-22 19:51:25 UTC
Hadez411 wrote:
To add some intrigue to the game, I'd like to see planets actually rotate on these otherwise useless rings they sit on which are supposed to represent their orbital path.

Now, my assumption is that it would be too much strain to move them frequently, but how about at the end of each month? Or every half a year if thats too much? As often as possible would be great, but again I dont know howmuch that would drag out down time, or what kind of algorithm they could come up with and how efficient it would be to move the planets X distance around their orbital path and to re-locate the customs offices and other items anchored to the planet/moon.

It would make for more interesting game play though, bubbles would have to be re-positioned, certain gates would be great tactical areas to camp certain times of month/year depending on what lines up with what and howmany AU shorter or longer the warp becomes, putting people on or off directional scan. Im sure there's a ton of other things it would subtly affect, but those were the first to come to mind.


Any game breaking effects anyone can think of?



That would give a nice element of reality and randomness to the game. "Didnt I leave my pos here orbiting this moon? Oh wait, that was 6 months ago. Now where is it?"

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Vizvayu Koga
#3 - 2012-01-22 20:24:14 UTC
It's an interesting idea, I like it. The movement could be made daily during downtime I guess... that'd be less drastic.
It would affect bookmarks though... so they'll have to rethink the bookmark system.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#4 - 2012-01-22 20:45:51 UTC
Link it to exploration so that certain things happen when planets align.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#5 - 2012-01-22 20:58:23 UTC
If they did it realistically it onl only add small value,

However I did wished they did give it though but there are the tecnical issues with the bookmarks.

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Anasthasius Focht
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-23 01:02:51 UTC
As a space fan, I thought of this already and appreciate the suggestion. However i think this is a rather big thing to implement :/
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#7 - 2012-01-23 01:40:36 UTC
Anasthasius Focht wrote:
As a space fan, I thought of this already and appreciate the suggestion. However i think this is a rather big thing to implement :/


Meh biggest part would be the bookmarks what appens if a planet runs into a bookmark in space? what about the bookmarks already near the station? and from the looks of it they're shoving the book

its easy to marry a 'clock' to a circle though so having planets orbit thier stars and moons orbit is not imposisble or hard in eve.

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Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-01-23 02:20:01 UTC
Bookmarks within 5000 km of a station would need to rotate with the station facing (for Undock Instant bookmarks to work.)
Bookmarks within say 1 AU of planets, moons, etc would need to rotate with the solar body facing. Bookmarks beyond these limits would need to rotate at a rate equal to a planet at that range around the star. (The Up/Down axis would be ignored for bookmark movements beyond being dragged up or down with planets, moons, asteroid belts, etc.)

The problem with making them move in real-time is that our ships would be left behind without having a speed equal to the nearest body and our engines varying that.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#9 - 2012-01-23 02:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
the issue with the bookmarks could be solved relatively easy. To create a new bookmark you would have to add a "point of reference" which must be a celestial or a station. Default reference point is the sun.

(converting old locations shouldn't be that difficult to automate)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#10 - 2012-01-23 02:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Bienator may have created the most elegant solution its math based the databases should be able to handle that probably much better than the current xyz system.

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Vizvayu Koga
#11 - 2012-01-23 03:17:19 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
the issue with the bookmarks could be solved relatively easy. To create a new bookmark you would have to add a "point of reference" which must be a celestial or a station. Default reference point is the sun.

(converting old locations shouldn't be that difficult to automate)


That may work... but IMO the default point of reference should be the nearest celestial, gate or station. Same for the auto-conversion, because if we take the sun as the default point of reference we could end with a lot of broken bookmarks and very angry mobs.
Hadez411
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-01-23 14:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Hadez411
Droxlyn wrote:
Bookmarks within 5000 km of a station would need to rotate with the station facing (for Undock Instant bookmarks to work.)
Bookmarks within say 1 AU of planets, moons, etc would need to rotate with the solar body facing. Bookmarks beyond these limits would need to rotate at a rate equal to a planet at that range around the star. (The Up/Down axis would be ignored for bookmark movements beyond being dragged up or down with planets, moons, asteroid belts, etc.)

The problem with making them move in real-time is that our ships would be left behind without having a speed equal to the nearest body and our engines varying that.



Well that was part of the intrigue to me, not being able to have age-old bookmarks for things like insta warps and gate camp spots in line with certain planets/stations.



Maybe for the pos bookmarks, they could change it so that if you bookmark a structure like a station, pos or ship maint array, you will warp to that specific structure ID wherever it's current XYZ location is, rather than fixed co-ordinates.

Furthermore, what about floating ships in a pos? they aren't really anchored. A decision would have to be made as to whether they get left behind or not.
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-01-23 16:55:05 UTC
Hadez411 wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Bookmarks within 5000 km of a station would need to rotate with the station facing (for Undock Instant bookmarks to work.)
Bookmarks within say 1 AU of planets, moons, etc would need to rotate with the solar body facing. Bookmarks beyond these limits would need to rotate at a rate equal to a planet at that range around the star. (The Up/Down axis would be ignored for bookmark movements beyond being dragged up or down with planets, moons, asteroid belts, etc.)

The problem with making them move in real-time is that our ships would be left behind without having a speed equal to the nearest body and our engines varying that.



Well that was part of the intrigue to me, not being able to have age-old bookmarks for things like insta warps and gate camp spots in line with certain planets/stations.



Maybe for the pos bookmarks, they could change it so that if you bookmark a structure like a station, pos or ship maint array, you will warp to that specific structure ID wherever it's current XYZ location is, rather than fixed co-ordinates.

Furthermore, what about floating ships in a pos? they aren't really anchored. A decision would have to be made as to whether they get left behind or not.


Making new bookmarks for a day would be tedious and boring. Low-sec survival rewards the prepared, and undock instant warp bookmarks are a critical part of this survival.

Bookmarks need to move with the system, they're "gravity signatures" in in-game lore.

Ships floating in a POS have the same velocity as the POS itself, so it would make sense that they would maintain their relative positions. Besides, there are crews on the ships that you left behind that can manage thrusters to maintain their relative position in your absence.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#14 - 2012-01-23 17:01:36 UTC
The point of reference bookmarks yeilds another advantage
You can clock all the bookmarks with thier points of reference allowing them to 'obit' as well.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#15 - 2012-01-23 17:02:24 UTC
Hadez411 wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Bookmarks within 5000 km of a station would need to rotate with the station facing (for Undock Instant bookmarks to work.)
Bookmarks within say 1 AU of planets, moons, etc would need to rotate with the solar body facing. Bookmarks beyond these limits would need to rotate at a rate equal to a planet at that range around the star. (The Up/Down axis would be ignored for bookmark movements beyond being dragged up or down with planets, moons, asteroid belts, etc.)

The problem with making them move in real-time is that our ships would be left behind without having a speed equal to the nearest body and our engines varying that.



Well that was part of the intrigue to me, not being able to have age-old bookmarks for things like insta warps and gate camp spots in line with certain planets/stations.



Maybe for the pos bookmarks, they could change it so that if you bookmark a structure like a station, pos or ship maint array, you will warp to that specific structure ID wherever it's current XYZ location is, rather than fixed co-ordinates.

Furthermore, what about floating ships in a pos? they aren't really anchored. A decision would have to be made as to whether they get left behind or not.



You make the entire grid orbit not the object within.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Lucjan
Deutzer Freiheit
#16 - 2012-01-23 21:27:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucjan
Very good idea, yet an old one. Was shot down by the devs a few years ago when they asked the speaker during a QA somewhere "Why?" and he didn't have a good answer.
The answer is simply, immersion.

The effect of this can already be predicted by the new introduced nebula. It may still just be a novelty effect but I love them and everyone would love orbiting solar systems with the gameplay changes it would bring.

One side effect to watch out for would be distant bookmarks on some grid that could orbit into another grid and u may end up in a celestial body or something.

Less importantly , I'm from Duripant. Our stupid station is in perpetual darkness yet receives sunlight magically from the stars direction. This would finally fix this minor issue.
Hadez411
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-01-24 00:06:54 UTC
True, moving the whole grid would be the best idea. Keeps all your short distance bookmarks the same and allows the angle of approach to change with the orbit when going from one orbiting grid to another.
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-01-25 02:24:10 UTC
If the planets moved in real time and you found Mars, then to follow Mars, your ship would need to fly at 47.9 km just to chase it.
If you warped to where your bookmark is at one moment near Mars, and it took you 10 seconds to get into warp and 10 seconds of flying, you would be 500km away from your bookmark when you landed.

(Pretending that things moved in game)
Clearly, the computer has to figure out where you need to go before you go into warp and aim ahead of the moving target, and when you land, the warp drive kicks you out going in the direction of the local frame of reference when landing. Which is pretty cool when you fly to an incoming celestial. (IE, you get kicked going 50km/s backwards upon landing.) And all speeds are then based upon the local frame of reference (the nearest celestial). Which makes that label telling you what the closest thing at the top left under the system name really important.

It would be an amazing feat of math to move the Eve Universe. It would be cool to watch too.
Vizvayu Koga
#19 - 2012-01-25 02:31:35 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
If the planets moved in real time and you found Mars, then to follow Mars, your ship would need to fly at 47.9 km just to chase it.
If you warped to where your bookmark is at one moment near Mars, and it took you 10 seconds to get into warp and 10 seconds of flying, you would be 500km away from your bookmark when you landed.

(Pretending that things moved in game)
Clearly, the computer has to figure out where you need to go before you go into warp and aim ahead of the moving target, and when you land, the warp drive kicks you out going in the direction of the local frame of reference when landing. Which is pretty cool when you fly to an incoming celestial. (IE, you get kicked going 50km/s backwards upon landing.) And all speeds are then based upon the local frame of reference (the nearest celestial). Which makes that label telling you what the closest thing at the top left under the system name really important.

It would be an amazing feat of math to move the Eve Universe. It would be cool to watch too.


And all that is without taking into account gravity force, right?
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-01-25 02:48:59 UTC
Vizvayu Koga wrote:
And all that is without taking into account gravity force, right?

Gravity is Acceleration and has nothing to do with instantaneous velocity.

I'm not sure why the Eve sub-warp drive system is sticky to the local orbiting path. For some reason, you can only slow your orbit or speed it up by the same amount, or even go perpendicular to it by the same magnitude. I'm guessing there is something the drive grips into from local gravity wells.
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