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They won't stop at nerfing the Drake...
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#121 - 2012-01-25 00:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Xolve wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:
One day, I hope to be as 1337 as you.

Mother of All Gods be praised, that day is not today.


Oh so you've fallen victim to my riveting tales of exploits and battle prowess, and all the other reasons I'm better then you, huh? ShockedRoll Because you know- thats all that I do, stroll around the forums and profess my awesomeness and superiority to the pleeb like masses of high sec and the lowliest of carebears. Get a grip space friend.

Go back to spewing out diatribes about how amazing High Sec is, and how the Drake isn't imbalanced in comparison to other Battlecruisers; and while you're at it please make mention of why people should be permitted to farm high sec incursions for the maximum duration of their life because after all thats what the devs had envisioned all along; and finally please talk at length as to why lowsec isn't broken and is chock full of content.

I might be a whole list of things, but at least delusional isn't one of them.

Pubbie.


*pleb. Pleeb is not a real word.

I am better than you. Ha!

Edit:
Mag's wrote:

Not quite as beautiful as this spot.

Edit: damn it.

I'M BETTER THAN YOU, TOO! HA!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#122 - 2012-01-25 00:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

I found the soundtrack for this thread.

That was Beautiful.
Not quite as beautiful as this spot. P

Edit: damn it. EvilLol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Alara IonStorm
#123 - 2012-01-25 00:42:17 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

I found the soundtrack for this thread.

That was Beautiful.
Not quite as beautiful as this spot. P

You missed. P

Your sense of Humor lacks Tracking Computers. Lol
Mag's
Azn Empire
#124 - 2012-01-25 00:43:54 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:

That was Beautiful.
Not quite as beautiful as this spot. P

You missed. P

Your sense of Humor lacks Tracking Computers. Lol
I know right. I need to pick myself up some officer ones. *heads off to the market* Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#125 - 2012-01-25 00:45:00 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

*pleb. Pleeb is not a real word.

I am better than you. Ha!


My posts are more entertaining (and I have more Spacebook likes then you (so your argument is invalid (style points for super nested parenthesis)))
Mag's
Azn Empire
#126 - 2012-01-25 00:47:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Xolve wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

*pleb. Pleeb is not a real word.

I am better than you. Ha!


My posts are more entertaining (and I have more Spacebook likes then you (so your argument is invalid (style points for super nested parenthesis)))
I just thought you meant the plural of pleb tbh. Internet language is always in flux and now I'm rambling.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#127 - 2012-01-25 00:51:51 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Berendas wrote:
Why should the Tengu be spared? It's just as overpowered as the Drake is. *Points at the alliance tournaments*


[Queue Caldari pilots' victim complex]


In all fairness.. a Tengu plus Subsystems costs about 20-25 times what a drake does (and that is not factoring in mods..). So yeah in that price range I would expect it to perform on a much greater wavelength then a 20m isk battlecruiser.


No reason that it should outperform, by a comfortable margin, every other sub-capital ship (including all the other t3s).
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#128 - 2012-01-25 00:58:32 UTC
Anya Ohaya wrote:
Xolve wrote:
Berendas wrote:
Why should the Tengu be spared? It's just as overpowered as the Drake is. *Points at the alliance tournaments*


[Queue Caldari pilots' victim complex]


In all fairness.. a Tengu plus Subsystems costs about 20-25 times what a drake does (and that is not factoring in mods..). So yeah in that price range I would expect it to perform on a much greater wavelength then a 20m isk battlecruiser.


No reason that it should outperform, by a comfortable margin, every other sub-capital ship (including all the other t3s).


So something that costs 40M ISK fitted, should perform in a relatively plateau-esque capactiy as something that costs 700M (Tech 2) - 4b (100mn AB Deadspace/Officer) ISK fitted?
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#129 - 2012-01-25 01:01:44 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:
Just because something is an example of good game-design in a game that's mostly informed by bad game-design doesn't make it overpowered.


But it makes it out of step with the whole game, and not belonging with everything else. Ships are meant to have strengths and weaknesses, which define their role in fleets. The Drake and Tengu are "overall good", and thus fulfilled too many roles. If there were more ships like the Drake/Tengu, we would see more variation of ships being flown, sure, but if they're all good at everything, that results in far more blandness than everyone flying crappy ships that are crappy at different things.


So why not bring the other ships up to its' (arguable) standard, then?

Why does this seem so incredibly difficult? (Coding/game-design are not my areas of expertise to put it charitably, so any game-designers/coders/devs, please feel free to lend me your wisdom on this.)

In the name of every God that ever was/is/will be why, always, must we drag the exceptional down to a more mass-acceptable level of mediocrity, on the assumption that this is the only way to "fix" the "problem?"

And what is the problem here, exactly? I suspect that finding the answer to that with respect to EVE runs a bit deeper than just juggling a few stats around...Ugh

Anyone remember the old Mercedes-Benz adverts?

"Built up to meet a standard, not down to meet a cost?" Make the existing crappy ships good at different things (best example: Blackbird for T I and the Recon ships for T II), instead of uniformly crap-ifying everything (is that a word? It is now!) so the existing crap can look better.

That'd be like Aston Martin trying to dumb its' cars down to be more in line with those God-awful American SUVs...Blink Probably wouldn't succeed, they'd lose a lot of loyal customers, and the resulting product would still be just another generic piece of **** 3.5t suburban douche-mobile that rides, drives, and handles like a rolling boulder. LOL, I'll stop now before the analogy gets too much more mangledBlink

BCs and T3s are supposed to be versatile, that's their role, as far as I know. And I don't know if you can directly compare the Drake/Tengu, just because they're both shield-tanked missile boats. IMHO, the Drake's nearest equivalent is the Nighthawk. Arguably it needs fixing (the CSM Meeting Minutes touch on this specifically, IIRC)--never flown one, so wouldn't comment there--but you don't fix one thing by making another thing worse so the first thing can seem better in comparison, you fix the first thing by...well, buckling down and bloody well fixing it.

Fake-edit:

On second thought, I think I will mangle the car-analogy a bit more, because that is one of my areas of expertise: You don't improve an Aston Martin DB-12 by binning its' stock v-12 engine and swapping in a Chevy small-block--the automotive paragon of me-too, over-rated generic conformity--just because some bunch of trailer-trash with their beat-to-**** '78 Camaros don't approve of its' much higher capabilities, and is jealous of same...

Real-edit:

Grrrrrrr, sort your forum out, CCP...

Ni.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#130 - 2012-01-25 01:03:26 UTC
That dude said it all. PVE drakes will get nerfed and PVP drakes will get buffed. That's it, basically...

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-01-25 01:06:23 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:

Wall-o-text




You completely lost me.

I'm drowning in words, seriously.

What is this?
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#132 - 2012-01-25 01:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: sYnc Vir
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?

Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.

This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.


Adapt or die,


Ask an old Nos and Damp Domi pilot about nerfs.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#133 - 2012-01-25 01:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Xolve wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:

Wall-o-text




You completely lost me.

I'm drowning in words, seriously.

What is this?


Nope!

Learn to read and think about what you've read.

This is not applied quantum-physiscs, OK, it's not that hard.

E: I mean, really--I even used paragraphs and line-breaks! Roll

Ni.
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2012-01-25 01:26:06 UTC
If you are a Caldari mission runner, you are only in a Drake until you can fly something better (Raven/CNR, Tengu, or Golem).

As for PvP, did it become so much better somehow than a Hurricane that it deserves a nerf? What's next, nerfing the Caracal? :)

I don't get it personally, and I think complaints about the Drake are for some other unstated reason tbh.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#135 - 2012-01-25 01:27:19 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?

Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.

This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.


Adapt or die,


Ask an old Nos and Damp Domi pilot about nerfs.


Nos and Damp Domi pilots have become Neut and RR domi pilots i reckon..

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#136 - 2012-01-25 01:27:36 UTC
And i think that the world has moved on from that as well...

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#137 - 2012-01-25 01:30:43 UTC
Well at least speed-tanked Cyclones are cheaper, now if I can just get it to tur........ahhhhgh!!!

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#138 - 2012-01-25 01:40:14 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
That dude said it all. PVE drakes will get nerfed and PVP drakes will get buffed. That's it, basically...


If its' speed gets increased, and if its' sig-radius under MWD gets reduced to something smaller than the average capital-ship, then maybe...just maybe...it will be a successful re-invention of that hull.

Oh, hey, new Big Idea(TM):

Re-spec the role boni for tier 2 BCs:

Bin the command-link fitting thingy--leave that to the tier 1s, and give them the buffing they need in general--and re-tool a race/class specific role bonus for each. (Per-level percentage, so yes, essentially a third ship-skill bonus for the class. And why not? Just because T I hulls have always had only two boni for the ship-skill is not a good enough reason to keep it like that, by the way.)

Myrmidon--Role Bonus: (X)% reduction in speed/agility penalties for armour mods and rigs per BC skill level. And make it faster.

Drake--Role Bonus: (X)% reduction in MWD signature-bloat per BC skill level. And reduce its' base sig. And make it slightly faster.

Hurricane--This is a tough one: This ship's speed and double-damage boni, plus the ease of fitting it already make it extremely powerful, although it's balanced by the fact that it's not so easy or forgiving to fly as the Drake, or anywhere near as durable. Maybe swap slots about--8/5/5 instead of 8/4/6? Feel free to chime in with your ideas here.

Harbinger--I don't fly Amarr much, but these ships need more fitting-capacity (CPU? What CPU?), from what I can see. Maybe a reduction in neut capacitor-use? Optimal-range or tracking bonus? Again, those more experienced of these ships, feel free to chime in.

Ni.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#139 - 2012-01-25 01:44:02 UTC
Hainnz wrote:
If you are a Caldari mission runner, you are only in a Drake until you can fly something better (Raven/CNR, Tengu, or Golem).

As for PvP, did it become so much better somehow than a Hurricane that it deserves a nerf? What's next, nerfing the Caracal? :)

I don't get it personally, and I think complaints about the Drake are for some other unstated reason tbh.


^^This.

As for your question..."Nerf it because I can't fly/got beat by it!" basically.

Ni.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#140 - 2012-01-25 01:56:12 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Holy mother of all ragefits.
It needed more capitals tbh. P


Reading comprehension, and sarcasm-detection much?
Obviously you haven't.



Actually, no:

I was ignoring you, Mouth:

You're boring.

Ni.