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Fix for the gank found! :D

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Honnete Du Decimer
#1 - 2012-01-25 00:04:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Honnete Du Decimer
Industrial fix:

I am think I have most easy idea for programmeur make all industrial player happy! Gate throw random place next system - no spawn at gate other side. Twisted
From that, guard for the gate must stop person reach enter. Fleet already can warp for one person but computer can also record which person are first for jump and put all same place.

Miner fix:

Player Mining Structure

I see these many threads and posts come and go. They all say same thing.

- Miner gank
- Incursion gank
- Industrial gank.
- Active mod gank
- Station gank.
- Ganker elude Condord and gank.
- Worm hole gank.

The common? It is the gank. Why the complain? We start play and we all know "EVE is harsh place" for player.

It is there in look you in face!

Problem is not EVE is harsh. Problem is EVE is harsh for only some player! It is harsh for player who work hard.

EVE is easy for player:

- who make alt and make destroyer.
- who hide main.
- who buy character
- who spoil fun for other.
- who do thing with no repercussion!

EVE is harsh universe for good people and is easy universe for people want pee in your wine.

Industrial:

Stage 1 - Avoid catch.
Stage 2- If catch fight for protect with escort.

Stage 2 impossible.

Honnete Du Decimer: I no want stop suicide gank but I want chance change way end and revenge on the real character.

1) More tank.
2) Shield transfer
3 a) Concord slower
or
3 b) Ganker war declare one person and they get "Concord is get bribed to look other way if you attack by someone."
4 a) All fleet get kill right or agg no matter system
or
4 b) All corp get kill right.

Quick fix is max 30 percent eHP for alpha. Need 4+ people for instant gank.

What risk?

Secret lock cargo ship when come out Amarr or Jita.
Scan cargo.
Good cargo? Tell gang on system exit gates "Shoot this one."

Boom! - is gone.

No risk, no warning, nothing - only dead and robbed.

Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Well, the OP allegedly wants to be able to attack all the alts and the main of the ganker, some disposable suicide ganker alt hardly matters to anyone, so killing them wouldn´t be worth jack. Being able to hunt down your main that you safely use for nullbearing ratting with your shiny officer-fitted ship, thats what could be called risk of receiving retaliation.

This would mean
1. that if you have multiple accounts, they can all be identified belonging to you.
2. if you get killrights for a player, you get killrights for all of his accounts.

Not neccessarily a bad idea. After all, being able to use multiple accounts to do all the risky things with worthless accounts and having everything valuable in safe accounts does make eve somewhat of hello-kitty online.

--------


I was merely thinking about a simple list of toons, where everyone can just see which toons are belonging together, and only that (no info on the account, just that those toons are apparently played from the same player, whoever that may be). Since the subscriber can also see the list, he would be able to tell if there are mistakes and could petition them

Like this ccp don´t need to verify anything. Everyone can see themselves in that list if all chars are correctly shown.

By the way, it´s not like i´m affected from gankers, i fly only pvp ships. However, i do look down on gankers because they don´t know their place, getting uppity with delusions of grandeur how 1337 they are when they are hardly better than prey themselves. So i´m just sympathetic with anything that makes them whine.


Merci.

Ganagati wrote:
...
The problem is that ganking requires no challenge. No risk. You know what you will lose- you plan it out. Your opponent has NO HOPE of stopping you. .


YES!

It is not die that is the problem. One reason I am love EVE is reason death is important. My ire it is with the way of no defend. No tactic.
EVE must equal harsh for the ganker!

Shazzam Vokanavom: "Anything that promotes further difficulty to ganking in high sec I agree with in prinicpal.

The imbalance afforded here is ridiculous.

There is no and hasnt been a working bounty system for ages. Other mechanics work in their favour, as per the mentioned war dec prinicipals, gankers can maniuplate the corporation systems too easily for reprisal.
Emphasis in this game seems to be it should be a risk/reward process. Yet the rewards for attacking soft targets with relative impunity does not reflect this model.

Gankers have it too easy. Make it harder, but don't eliminate it."

Amber Katelo wrote:
Funny thing is the "let us defend ourselves" is actually an argument for less Concord.
The answer given the current game mechanics is null sec.
I'd be in favor of Remote Shield Extenders, though. It'd be interesting to be able to defend against the initial alpha. This would also be a potential counter to blobs.


Link alts.
Link accounts.
Corp kill right.
Fleet aggression even other system.
Ganker "war declare" one person with anonymous notify.
Bigger tank for time react and friend defend. (More time Concord come)

There many way fix this problem and fix normal war declaration mechanic. Go see idea forum. Is possible but desire is no there. CCP scared these ganker people quit game.

Lexmana wrote:
And we don't cry on the forums for CCP to protect us.


Not ask CCP protect. Ask CCP give chance defend self and fight back where matter to attacker.

PMS [:p]
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-01-25 00:15:55 UTC
Instant gratification types that heard about this game from a friend of theirs they use to play WoW with... came to EvE, got blown up, lost their stuffs, and are now bitter.

Half of them havn't been ganked, killed or even logged into the game in a few months, but they won't stop posting... its just the way of all things sadly.
Tiberius Sunstealer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-25 00:17:17 UTC
It is all the World of Warcraft players that feel death should have no repercussions other than a minor hindrance. They also believe highsec should mean that no PVP is allowed ever.
Honnete Du Decimer
#4 - 2012-01-25 00:18:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Honnete Du Decimer
Idea developer are work on is for make lock more slow for enemy the more enemy who target you.

Small ship are should be difficult shoot. Also, why aim perfect first time shoot? Maybe gate like station we must come through gate already maximum speed?

Maybe some absorb thing? Industrial and mining barge are take 30% of alpha damage only but all other ship are take 60%? Like in build damage control.


Lexmana wrote:
... In fact they say it is a "cold harsh universe".


Only for people play one character - one account.

No warn, no time, gone instant.
Second throw away alt come loot and friend for you no can shoot them.
Third alt no one know. Is so much happy have many ISk and no person can kill or find him.

EVE is easy walk on cake for ganker.

Valei Khurelem wrote:
[
So why does EVE have to be the same?

Quote:
If you think playing EVE online is a repetitive and boring task that is your problem. I just play the game and I think it is exciting even when i fail and get ganked.


You definitely need to find something to do in life, here are options I want to have in EVE if someone attempts to gank me

. Badass self-destruct sequence which does AOE damage to anyone around the ship when it explodes, damage done should be based on the size of the ship and whether there are explosive materials in the cargo hold i.e actual explosives or ammunition etc. yes, I lose the ship, but I want to be able to take down you lot as well, I'd love it if the closer you flew to the enemy before they shoot you the more damage is done

. We can get drones as industrials so why not allow us to reprogram our mining lasers to turn onto the enemy?

. Having a warp disruptor countermeasure that actually works would be nice too so we could slip away and **** off our pursuers, I already had a thread on this in features and ideas so go look for it you lazy wankers

. Use the asteroid belts we were just mining in for cover to hide behind and take out enemy using free flight which would need real skill rather than just an omgwtf battleship

. Allow us to turn off our ship systems to hide from sensors or local chat as you warp in so you can't find us easily

Why can't I do any of this when exploring in the game or going into dangerous areas for more supposedly profitable stuff? Oh wait, I can't, because there are gank groups on forums that seem to have taken to using the same cowardly tactics on forums that they do in the game which is to scream like chavs and gang up on small groups of people until they're forced to run away and hide in stations when they realise they're outmatched because they don't want to be challenged in the game.




Xolve wrote:
Instant gratification types that heard about this game from a friend of theirs they use to play WoW with... came to EvE, got blown up, lost their stuffs, and are now bitter.

Half of them havn't been ganked, killed or even logged into the game in a few months, but they won't stop posting... its just the way of all things sadly.


It is instant gratification children who want blow up thing that no fight back. Same people are want steal freighter full of the hard work. Same people who no go find real fight.

Same people who no want chance that person they attack - the friends are come and kill them.

Tiberius Sunstealer wrote:
It is all the World of Warcraft players that feel death should have no repercussions other than a minor hindrance. They also believe highsec should mean that no PVP is allowed ever.


Is not correct. War declaration mechanic must fix. PvP must have research, plan, strategy.

I want PVP. I want find player main. I want chance justice and revenge where hurt. They are hide. They are cowards. Game make easy for them be little spoil child.

I am talk the people who hit, steal and run then are hide. No penalty. No revenge. No risk. EVE is not harsh for these people.

PMS [:p]
Ai Shun
#5 - 2012-01-25 00:28:44 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
It is instant gratification children who want blow up thing that no fight back. Same people are want steal freighter full of the hard work. Same people who no go find real fight.


They are pirates. Rob or plunder (a ship). This is a viable career in EVE Online. They are not children. Why should your way of playing trump theirs?

All you need to do is fly safe, watch your six and avoid them.

Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
I am talk the people who hit, steal and run then are hide. No penalty. No revenge. No risk. EVE is not harsh for these people.


That is not their problem. It is yours. You could make it harsh for them if you chose, but you do not. The sandbox allows them to do that and it allows you to retaliate. Or to avoid them.

Their risk is also there, but you do not punish them.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-01-25 00:30:51 UTC
[quote=Honnete Du Decimer] stuff about no repurcussions for unconsentual pvp[quote]

It happens, You get kill rights and then you can hunt.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#7 - 2012-01-25 00:31:11 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
EVE is harsh universe for good people and is easy universe for people want pee in your wine.


That's normally stated as "pee in your breakfast cereal", but I think your version is so, so much worse. Shocked

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Honnete Du Decimer
#8 - 2012-01-25 00:32:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Honnete Du Decimer
Xolve wrote:

It happens, You get kill rights and then you can hunt.


Hunt what? Ghost? It is not the real person. They do not care if it die. It is rubbish slave. CCP protect them.

Ai Shun wrote:

They are pirates. Rob or plunder (a ship). This is a viable career in EVE Online. They are not children.


Real pirates have one face. Yes can hide worm hole and system. Can have stronghold but real pirate can be catch.

PMS [:p]
Mag's
Azn Empire
#9 - 2012-01-25 00:34:34 UTC
Eve is PvP centric and always has been. But some people think they know best and want it changed.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Sicex
#10 - 2012-01-25 00:35:01 UTC
And scammers rely on people who don't read carefully enough... The entire game of PVP is built around taking advantage of those that you can take advantage of.

Choosing your fights, engaging only when you know you can win, bringing and having friends as backup... these are the tenets of EVE that everyone MUST learn because that is how we play the game. EVE is harsh is not a regional statement. It is a blanket statement for the game. All of EVE is harsh, even your perfectly safe High Sec. You agree to risk your ship and get it blown up by undocking.
Honnete Du Decimer
#11 - 2012-01-25 00:36:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Honnete Du Decimer
Sicex wrote:
And scammers rely on people who don't read carefully enough... The entire game of PVP is built around taking advantage of those that you can take advantage of.

Choosing your fights, engaging only when you know you can win, bringing and having friends as backup... these are the tenets of EVE that everyone MUST learn because that is how we play the game. EVE is harsh is not a regional statement. It is a blanket statement for the game. All of EVE is harsh, even your perfectly safe High Sec. You agree to risk your ship and get it blown up by undocking.


EVE is only harsh people play one character with one account. It protect people who know how go around system how find weak place. EVE is ease for the scavenger and the coward.

Mag's wrote:
Eve is PvP centric and always has been. But some people think they know best and want it changed.


PVP is player versus player. Conflict. Gank is not fight. Gank is slaughter. You defend weak play. You defend exploit for poor design.

PMS [:p]
Sicex
#12 - 2012-01-25 00:38:56 UTC
Just to throw this in here... A common mantra of EVE is: If it's a fair fight, you are doing it wrong.
Honnete Du Decimer
#13 - 2012-01-25 00:41:01 UTC
Sicex wrote:
Just to throw this in here... A common mantra of EVE is: If it's a fair fight, you are doing it wrong.


If it is a fair fight it is a gamble, a rush and it is a fun fight. With gank is no gamble. It is over before start. There is no alter when jump. There is no time react. There is no control. It is one easy way for ganker.

PMS [:p]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#14 - 2012-01-25 00:41:47 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Eve is PvP centric and always has been. But some people think they know best and want it changed.


PVP is player versus player. Conflict. Gank is not fight. Gank is slaughter. You defend weak play. You defend exploit for poor design.

PvP centric not in the way BF3 is PvP centric. Eve's PvP is completely player-defined, with very little rules tying you in -- a true sandbox is a dangerous place where anything can happen. Where there is so much freedom, there is imbalance, and people take advantage of that. That comes in the form of ganks, Falcons, and hotdrops, to name a few things.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#15 - 2012-01-25 00:45:19 UTC
It's not poor design, it's just that you don't have the mindset to appreciate that this is not a game that holds your hand and leads you across the road. I'm not a ganker but I appreciate that this happens and I take steps to reduce the chance of it happening. So can you but you'd rather blame someone else.

No matter what anyone here says you'll just keep saying that it's not your fault and the game is flawed, so those of us who can learn to survive in this game will continue surviving and those who can't will fall by the wayside, it's as simple as that.

I'm currently helping a small group of new players that have joined our corp, giving them advice about what can happen if they aren't careful and hopefully giving them a head start in being able to avoid those incidents and fend for themselves. At least they're willing to listen and appreciate that this game doesn't wrap you in cotton wool.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Tiberius Sunstealer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-01-25 00:48:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Sunstealer
OP. Try fitting your industrial ships to survive gank attacks long enough for backup to be called in because right now, it seems like you're complaining about your stupidity. It's also very ironic for a person to complain about people posting on their alts on an alt.
Ganagati
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-01-25 01:09:05 UTC
My problem with ganking is how Concord treats it. If an individual attacks a person, they should become KOS for everyone in that person's GROUP, not just corp, for at least 12 hours to a day. CONCORD should not shoot down a battleship if it retaliates against a suicide brutix who is shooting a hulk in that battleship's group.

The problem is that ganking requires no challenge. No risk. You know what you will lose- you plan it out. Your opponent has NO HOPE of stopping you. Your opponent's friends, shy of being in a corp with them, have NO CHANCE of getting you back. You lose 10-20 mil at most, your target loses nearby a bil.

I wish CONCORD would either do something about it or stay the hell out. Don't pick a halfway point, let the ganks happen and then WTFPWN everyone in the guy's group who wants a piece of the attacker later on. Make suiciders a KOS target to all involved for an entire day so that they suddenly have risk involved in what they are doing. Or nerf suiciding even more.

CCP: please either let the players handle suiciding and leave CONCORD out of it, or handle suiciding yourself and make it more costly to the attacker. Don't reward this carebearish behavior of risk free PvP.

.
Sicex
#18 - 2012-01-25 01:19:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sicex
Ganagati wrote:
You lose 10-20 mil at most, your target loses nearby a bil.


Yeah, you'd think people would start to realize that ganking does exist and that maybe they shouldn't fly a billion ISK spaceship around if they want to be left alone.............................. Ellipsis ftw.

I'm starting to think the 'well known' EVE mantras/tenets/sayings/wisdoms are not being passed on to the newer generations and that is the reason for all this crying?

So lets see:


  • Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose.

  • Just because you can fly the ship, doesn't mean you can use the ship.

  • New Eden is a cold, dark, harsh universe.

  • If it's a fair fight, you're doing it wrong.

  • EVE is PVP (As both market traders and combat pilots will tell you).


I'm trying to think of the others...

CCP continually states that your decision to undock is a decision to be a target.
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-01-25 01:48:19 UTC
Most ganks are an annoyance. The problem is volume and profitability. A couple groups of gankers give the game character. If something works for one group pretty soon you'll get a hundred guys trying it somewhere around Jita. This is especially a problem with haulers as anyone doing any halfway serious trade or industry can pack one to the point that a gank is profitable.

Really though, it's mostly the annoyance factor of getting alphaed. Going from full to pop in a non-combat ship in a non combat situation sucks.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#20 - 2012-01-25 01:52:11 UTC
Sicex wrote:
Ganagati wrote:
You lose 10-20 mil at most, your target loses nearby a bil.


Yeah, you'd think people would start to realize that ganking does exist and that maybe they shouldn't fly a billion ISK spaceship around if they want to be left alone.............................. Ellipsis ftw.

I'm starting to think the 'well known' EVE mantras/tenets/sayings/wisdoms are not being passed on to the newer generations and that is the reason for all this crying?

So lets see:


  • Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose.

  • Just because you can fly the ship, doesn't mean you can use the ship.

  • New Eden is a cold, dark, harsh universe.

  • If it's a fair fight, you're doing it wrong.

  • EVE is PVP (As both market traders and combat pilots will tell you).


I'm trying to think of the others...

CCP continually states that your decision to undock is a decision to be a target.


If you're losing a billion for a mission running ship or mining barge then just stop pimp fitting it as Sicex said. I knew before I got anywhere near running my first level 4 mission that throwing expensive modules on it would make me a likely target, so I trained up for tech 2 and only use relatively cheap faction mods at times which wouldn't make my ship that much more expensive to lose. My money is going towards getting myself sorted with some ships for low sec, I don't need expensive mods to run around high sec.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

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