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0.0 fix - Nurf Moon Goo!!

Author
Ehn Roh
#61 - 2012-01-24 19:08:47 UTC
Ned Black wrote:
The major problem with moon mining is that it is completely static. If you have a tech moon then you have free isk in abundance.




Until someone takes it from you.

EVE still needs more reasons not just to kill your neighbor, but kill specific ones in specific places and steal their stuff. This is one of those reasons.
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-01-24 19:27:09 UTC
Andski wrote:
clearly there are no massive conflicts and battles taking place over moons, nope not at all

the DRF and ncdot/raiden/PL took over the north for gudfitez


You know once upon a time people took space, well just to take space. Then again once upon a time most mods were T1/meta. You can excuse folks for being a bit pissy when they realize that 0.0 alliances are taking a cut of a huge number of market transactions (much more then where possible when supply was bottlenecked by limited T2 BPO availability).

So yeah we want to take your cash cow out, roast it, and have a BBQ.

Also Moon Goo as a PI good would be cool.
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-01-24 19:33:16 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
[

would you like to post your accounts please? I mean dont you and goons feck over their own new members by scamming them?

Jeezzz


Um Goons are actually pretty good about not scamming folks who are cluefull enough to join the SA website. On the other hand SA gets your $10 on the deal.
Plyn
Uncharted.
#64 - 2012-01-24 20:04:55 UTC
+1 for making moons work like PI... AND rotation... both at the same time if it could be managed, but I doubt that would happen.

PI: Alliance members get to profit some off of good moons, as opposed to them being "alliance owned only" which they typically are. Alliances still make good iskies off of the moon being mined, as they surely own the customs office and will get a cut. Could add moon levels to DUST with cool reduced gravity crazy fights.

Rotation: Tech depletes slowly as it is harvested, as do all the good ones, eventually moon becomes barren. Other moons start to yield the good stuff, cyclical. More people that come to feast on the good minerals, the faster the moon depletes. Make space feel big again. Make dotlan moon charts pointless. Let people's eyes widen when they survey the moon they were going to set up on and suddenly discover a gold mine that no one knew was there.

It's less about "oh noez who owns all the good moons this season?!?!", or "all the stuff is bunched up!". It's more about making game content dynamic. Sure it'd be a hassle for some people, but no one said it should be easy. I love the idea of discovering new things, or finding out that something isn't what everyone thought it would be.

It would be a huge conflict driver, as alliances are forced to move around trying to keep tabs on where they should strike next. Which region has the best combination of moons this season, easier to defend, and easiest to take?

Even if it did affect T2 production, which I doubt it would have as huge an impact as everyone is trying to claim (just would be different people selling the tech at different times), is that a bad thing? Are alternating periods of stability and instability a bad thing for markets? This would actually make market pvp 100 times better.

It's whatevs, though. Arguing about this kind of stuff is like trying to argue with people about religion. Everyone has their own idea of how everything works, and they'll be damned if you could convince them one iota of anything went the other way.
SenshiMaru
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#65 - 2012-01-24 20:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: SenshiMaru
sasuk wrote:
put moon goo in 0.5 and 0.6 systems that would sort out the issue lol


What about 0.4 moon mining? The material is there, but it is unaccessible.
Orion Guardian
#66 - 2012-01-24 20:41:20 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Orion GUardian wrote:
I believe that most Alliance leaders do not **** their members, but I thinks its highly possible some do (especially my enemies :P) I am quite content with getting my ships replaced ;) Free Scimitars!


Let me tell you about OWN alliance and how they were allowed to live in Deklein with Tech moons, they only partially reimbursed their pilots for some fleet ships, and how TEST sent a UN aid convoy of badgers to anchor cans full of water, grain and livestock outside their station to help their impoverished peoples.

They eventually got kicked out and paid White Noise something like 40bn a month to rent a constellation in Vale with no access to tech, which they could afford due to hoarding their moon income and exploiting their members.

I'd like to think that cases like OWN are rare.


would you like to post your accounts please? I mean dont you and goons feck over their own new members by scamming them?

Jeezzz



You got that very wrong

Goons NEVER **** goons they only scam other people. The so called "new members" are just scammed and never made members. Afaik only members of the "Something awful" forums can become Goons through the forum (and the forum has a entrance fee to hold of spammers)

Anyway: No I am not a Goon and this IS my main Account. You can find this character and his corp+alliance ingame I just don't see a point to have it display in the forum so it becomes a factor in my arguments everytime.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#67 - 2012-01-24 21:00:03 UTC
I dunno about anyone else, but I know plenty of people who hold personal moon mining ops in 0.0. Alliances need the high paying moons to pay the bills and make sure I can keep getting blown up, but the low end ones can be claimed by anyone whos corp trusts them with the roles to run one. Fill out the proper forms(to prevent fighting with each other over moons) and hooray, your own personal moons.

Guess thats not as common as I thought, but I coulda sworn I've heard plenty of other people say they had personal moon goo.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Orion Guardian
#68 - 2012-01-24 21:03:57 UTC
Tallian: Ok I do not know anyone with a personal Moon, I know of Corporations getting Moons from Alliance though (mostly lower ends ofc) to finance their own agenda.

At least I dont know of that, may have eluded me ofc ;)
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-01-24 21:04:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kessiaan
I don't see anything wrong with high-end moon goo as it is right now. The big alliance need big assets to fight over, as has been said several times the money is used to fund alliance operations.

If people want to mine high-end moon materials elsewhere, perhaps randomly spawned discoverable deposits (which disappear once depleted) could be worked into PI somehow.

Any 'nerf' should be focused on increasing overall supply. I likes my cheap T2, thanks.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#70 - 2012-01-24 21:08:21 UTC
saltrock0000 wrote:
A Simple quote from another thread which i think deserves a thread of its own:

Moon mining has horribly unbalanced nullsec pvp. Remove moon mining and make people play eve to earn isk again so that the blobbers have to run around in pve ships and get shot at too.

Now this to me sounds like a eureka moment!


There's no real reason why moons specific materials shouldn't deplete and re pop at some random location.

I'm quite sure this would bring a lot more fights and ships destroyed, would also spare the gazillions free isk between more people = more conflicts, more explosions, more ships destroyed

yey, awesome stuff, sure.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-01-24 21:11:51 UTC
Kessiaan wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with high-end moon goo as it is right now. The big alliance need big assets to fight over, as has been said several times the money is used to fund alliance operations.

If people want to mine high-end moon materials elsewhere, perhaps randomly spawned discoverable deposits (which disappear once depleted) could be worked into PI somehow.

Any 'nerf' should be focused on increasing overall supply. I likes my cheap T2, thanks.


Your alliance mates and pos/stations/whatever stuff belonging to them IS the best asset you can have. You look dumb with your tech moons and no one to defend them with you/for you and a very good reason for grieffing corps/alliances to attack your stuff with corp A and sell you merc services with corp B.

Sometime people should make their brains work a little bit...
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2012-01-24 21:20:47 UTC
Orion GUardian wrote:
Tallian: Ok I do not know anyone with a personal Moon, I know of Corporations getting Moons from Alliance though (mostly lower ends ofc) to finance their own agenda.

At least I dont know of that, may have eluded me ofc ;)


... I have a personal platinum moon myself. It's not that uncommon.
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2012-01-24 21:32:01 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
There's no real reason why moons specific materials shouldn't deplete and re pop at some random location.


Here's 3 reasons:

1: Moon shuffling is a disincentive to combat - why would I invade your region full of tech moons if they were going to despawn and pop up somewhere else by the time we'd finished fighting over them? May as well sit tight and wait to see if next month's shuffle drops them into our lap.

2: Instead, it rewards low-risk, tedious and repetitive activities like flying around in a probing prowler moonscanning entire regions on a regular basis. Eve doesn't need more boredom, thanks.

3: It also benefits large alliances with the manpower to delegate enough players carry out organised scanning sweeps. The little 30 man lowsec corp might be sitting with a tech moon right under their nose but if they don't have enough masochists to spend hours of their lives looking for them the first they'll know about it is when us or PL or Solar Fleet plonk down a tower in their back yard.

Quote:
I'm quite sure this would bring a lot more fights and ships destroyed, would also spare the gazillions free isk between more people = more conflicts, more explosions, more ships destroyed


Except it would produce the exact opposite.

Tech is stupidly broken and badly needs to be devalued, preferably by switching the material requirements for the T2 production chain so the R64s and other R32s are in greater demand. Moon shuffling soves nothing.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Orion Guardian
#74 - 2012-01-24 21:46:11 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
There's no real reason why moons specific materials shouldn't deplete and re pop at some random location.


Here's 3 reasons:

1: Moon shuffling is a disincentive to combat - why would I invade your region full of tech moons if they were going to despawn and pop up somewhere else by the time we'd finished fighting over them? May as well sit tight and wait to see if next month's shuffle drops them into our lap.

2: Instead, it rewards low-risk, tedious and repetitive activities like flying around in a probing prowler moonscanning entire regions on a regular basis. Eve doesn't need more boredom, thanks.

3: It also benefits large alliances with the manpower to delegate enough players carry out organised scanning sweeps. The little 30 man lowsec corp might be sitting with a tech moon right under their nose but if they don't have enough masochists to spend hours of their lives looking for them the first they'll know about it is when us or PL or Solar Fleet plonk down a tower in their back yard.

Quote:
I'm quite sure this would bring a lot more fights and ships destroyed, would also spare the gazillions free isk between more people = more conflicts, more explosions, more ships destroyed


Except it would produce the exact opposite.

Tech is stupidly broken and badly needs to be devalued, preferably by switching the material requirements for the T2 production chain so the R64s and other R32s are in greater demand. Moon shuffling soves nothing.



This is how I know Eve to be true, yes.....
Umega
Solis Mensa
#75 - 2012-01-24 21:57:14 UTC
Just a friendly reminder for some people to add to their own mental equations of 'perfection in EVE'..

There needs to be reasons for people to fight. More than just 'I want to pew-pew'.. which isn't enough to fuel a player driven economy of pop-n-gone. You, I, everyone needs these '900 ships destroyed in last 24 hours in ::insert null/low system here::'

If you flood materials in all over the place. the desire to go fight for some things shrinks, cause quite simply you don't need to. And some of you will become what you seem to 'hate'.. fatcats, lazy and fat with no reason to change n adapt. Like it or not.. this is infact a stronger stigma tied to 'carebears' hugging highsec-only when you actually give it serious, unbiased thought. Chances of being uprooted lowering is a bad.. bad.. bad idea. Prime example.. Incursion debate. Players are having their Incursion money tree uprooted.. welcome to the feeling of being invaded and losing moons/systems/sanctums/and so on. Sucks doesn't it. Welcome to EVE.

Ontop of that.. a surplus of materials driving down profits. Sure you can argue.. lower costs will equal more pew-pew because of ship/mod cost. In my experince.. while I agree I am some one that will fight for absolutely no reason.. I think some of you are hypocritically in this arguement. Fighting some one for no reason is.. 'griefing'. You believe there should be a reason to fight between people. I also agree that fighting for a reason makes it feel.. Better, more fulfilling, and epic in quality...

Fighting for resources is fighting for Power. Don't take this way of overpopulating resources.. or there will end up being an empty void in EVE and it'll roll down a slippery slope to feeling utterly bland and tasteless.

And if you cut down on how much materials is coming in.. obviously costs will go up as supply goes down. CCP has to tight rope walk this.

And as someone else stated.. while in principle that idea of rotating moons will push fights around null/low.. from an RP athestics standpoint, UGH terrible to wrap around the notion.. lots don't care about such. Fair enough.. but one problem it will have is it will create a serious bottleneck in materials as people try to find the hot spots.. and then time spent to take them. And some wars take longer than a month.. even before the war ends, the materials move. Leaving not much chance, effort, ability to harvest n move.

And.. you can't fix stupid and some of you are just flat out stupid. Deal with it.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#76 - 2012-01-24 22:09:58 UTC
A little over a year ago we actually owned a tech moon. Had it most of a year. Turned a tidy profit. Almost bought a mother ship until we realized we had no use for one and it would likely be expoded immediately. So strange things can happen even with such valuable moons.

I used to be a fan of tech moons moving over time. I am starting to lose confidence in that as the correct solution. I would propose some combination of the following.

- Some scannable "new item" like comets for example. New mining skills and modules, maybe for the lowest of the T2 barges to make them interesting for folks not deep core mining. Put random moon minerals in these new elements. So they are active and spawn for limited periods. Maybe they end up mostly in low sec to make low sec interesting again.

- Make a replacement version of everything that needs Technetium that can be built with larger mount of lower materials. So Technetium could still be the "best" way to profit but make alternative "recipes" with more comment moon elements.

- Make every moon material available on every moon, but in very low mining rates for the rare stuff. So a variation of the suggestion to make it more PI like. This would let a smaller T2 building operation be able to source enough to support smaller qty production independently.

Anyways, I agree there is a problem with the price of Technetium (it is so valuble I felt it deserves capitalization) and like the idea of anything that makes fixed isk printing machines less common in Eve. I hope CCP takes a look at this soon. A number of good suggestions have been made to make the situation better. I hope the ultimate solution throws some of us miner types a bone and gives us a new dynamic mining experience.

Issler