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So, is anyone actually reading the feedback on AF balancing?

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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#21 - 2012-01-22 21:57:45 UTC
Congratulations on missing the point. I'm not arguing that the current AF changes are bad (though they need some changes, like the Hawk's worthless active tank bonus and horrible grid/cpu), so you can spare me the endless rants on why the complainers are wrong.

The problem is CCP's lack of communication on the subject. For example: why weren't those changes you listed published in the feedback thread? You know, to show some sign that someone is actually paying attention to feedback instead of just hit-and-run posting? It's good that they've paid at least some attention, but to those of us who don't have time to constantly compare every minor stat on every ship, or sit 24/7 on the test server in case a dev shows up to comment on something, it looks like a return of the pre-Crucible attitude that had people quitting in huge numbers.

Even if the changes turn out to be good ones, the simple fact that CCP has not made any real attempt at two-way communication on the subject means these changes are not ready for release on the real server. If CCP pushes them out anyway just to meet their "coming soon" promise, it's just one more sign that they really haven't learned anything.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-01-22 22:47:22 UTC
That's not all you were saying, but yes more direct feedback would be nice but would really only serve as fuel to the tiny fire.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Zircon Dasher
#23 - 2012-01-22 23:36:15 UTC
lulz.

The people who religiously fly AF's are not going to tip thier hand for "balance" sake.

As for replacing other ships-

It is not that the new AF's do all jobs better than ships X,Y, or Z. They do, however, the jobs of other ships 90% as good. I get a ship that does the anti-frig thing 90% as well as a destroyer, does the tackle job 90% as good as an interceptor (given all the other methods/ships of placing 1-point tackle), does the cruiser pew-pew 90% as good as other cruisers (and sometimes does anti-BC/BS better than a t1 cruiser).

It is the new tier 2 BC.

And I am happy about it!

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-01-22 23:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal
ehh Zircon, I think you're exaggerating a little bit there.
I'd say 40% Destroyer, 40% Cruiser, & 20% Interceptor.

They can do anti-support fairly well, but Destroyers still do it way better solely because of the # of guns, cost of entry, & overall effectiveness. They can do the Cruiser thing *okay*, but Cruisers still do way more damage, tank way more, and cost way less. Cruisers also have defensive mechanisms that frigs do not (neuts/drones). And they can do the Interceptor thing somewhat but that's more because of their size. They still fail as interceptors, even compared to lowly combat inties. They're worse as interceptors than faction frigates are.

You'll never see blobs of AFs trumping blobs of Destroyers or Cruisers, just like you'll never see AFs becoming popular long-range tackle Smile

But I'm happy you're happy P

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Zircon Dasher
#25 - 2012-01-23 00:37:34 UTC
"my 100% destroyer gang will beat your 100% AF gang!" lolz

Sure, if I am only hunting a gang of frigs I would rather have a gang of destroyers. A destroyer will WTFBBQPWN a frig that doesnt just leave. An AF will only BBQ that same frig. Either way the end result is the same. The ships are functional equivalents for most intents and purposes. Roll The "cost of entry" is a joke for the religious small ship pilots. As is the cost.

Sure if I only need to get a single point on a 1-2 boats I might use an inty over an AF (Actually I would use neither....and therein lies the biggest problem).

Sure, a cruiser that is set up to kill only other cruisers (or BC/BS) is a better choice than an AF. But those cruisers generally dont do the anti-frig thing as well as the cruisers specifically set up for the job. And those set up for that job dont do cruiser/BS fight any better than AF's. Obviosuly some cruisers can split *coughVexcough*, but %of total t1 cruisers that can do this is small. Additionally those "defensive mechanisms" are largely there to fend off smaller ships (ecm drones aside) because tracking/missle formula.

The funny thing is that I never fly in 100% anything gangs. Nor do I always know what exactly I am going to find on a roam. Versatility (being "good enough") in a small and fast package, even if it is not 100% optimal for everything, is worth way more to me than knowing I am running at 100% efficiency for a specific niche.

THat is why most of the balance thread is a joke. Everyone is busy talking about 1 v1 SISI fights and setups while intentionally avoiding commmon TQ game situations and philosophies. Even more disheartening is the common use of logical fallacies and intentional misconstruing of arguments that has been rampant on both sides of the discussion.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-01-23 02:42:22 UTC
i think you underestimate destroyer gangs.
They're commonly flown all over the place, and they one-shot cruisers, instantly melt battlecruisers, and make battleships disintegrate. It's not uncommon to see a gang of 30 thrashers one-volley battleships.

Cruisers don't need to be anti-frig fit to counteract AFs.
In fact, every race has a Cruiser than can easily handle them without adjusting their fits.

I never considered any of the balance talk to be restricted to 1v1s, and my personal testing was not limited to that. And yes, gangs with a majority of cruisers, frigates, or destroyers are pretty common.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#27 - 2012-01-24 17:57:13 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
St Mio wrote:
I noticed that they have been tweaking the bonuses since the initial proposal.


They have? What was changed?


AF Bonuses from Test server as of the time of this post ( 1/20/2012 -- 01:28:00 -- Singularity Time )

Assault Ship Role bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty


AMARR

Retribution

Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus

10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Cap Use per level
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed per level

Assault Ships Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Optimal Range per level
5% bonus to Small Energy Turret Damage per level


Vengeance

Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus:

5% bonus to Rocket Damage per level
-5% bonus to Missile Launcher Rate of Fire per level

Assault Ships Skill Bonus

5% bonus to Armor Resistances per level
% bonus to Capacitor Recharge Rate per level


CALDARI

Harpy

Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Optimal range per level
5% bonus to Shield Resistances per level

Assault Ships Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Optimal Range per level
5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Damage per level

Hawk

Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus

10% bonus to Missile Kinetic Damage per level
-5% bonus to Missile Launcher Rate of Fire per level

Assault Ships Skill Bonus

10% bonus to Missile Velocity per level
7.5% bonus to Shield Boost Amount per level


GALLENTE

Enyo

Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus

10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Damage per level

Assault Ships Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Optimal Range per level
7.5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Tracking Speed per level

Ishkur

Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus:

5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints per level

Assault Ships Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Optimal Range per level
5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level


MINMATAR

Jaguar

Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus:

5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Damage per level
7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Tracking per level

Assault Ships Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Optimal Range per level
5% bonus to Small Projectile Damage per level

Wolf

Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus:

5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Damage per level
7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Tracking per level

Assault Ships Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Falloff per level
5% bonus to Small Projectile Damage per level



so is this the *extent* of the af changes, as of right now?
no extra slots or turrets or fitting buffs?

this... might be... okay.

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
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