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Wormhole Combat Site and Anom Nerf?
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Sam Koli
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-01-24 12:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sam Koli
We run C4's and also remarked a massive reduction in the drop of nanoribbons.
around 20% less
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-01-24 12:35:20 UTC
Out of curiosity how did you come to that number?
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-01-24 15:01:49 UTC
Obax Bannon wrote:
Captain Evenwel wrote:
Again fellas, I'm not feeling it's a dry spot. We really are making nothing. Just did 2 radars and 6 combats: 1 nano.


I would also second this.
And yes I am well aware of the general train of thought about how spawns work in wormholes before anyone asks that.

We have lived in our current hole for around 8 months now and in wh-space for alot longer than that.
The combat sites have all but dried up, maybe getting 2-3 sites/week at the moment.
This appears to be the case in alot of holes that we get connects to also.

We recently had a connection to a C4 hole.....on eveeye no activity in the hole for almost 10 days
and only 7 combats in the system.

The fact that ribbons have also gone up by around 2 mill in a short space of time might also hint at less
actually coming out of wh space in general.

Anyone else finding this type of thing happening ?
Maybe things will get better again after the patch tomorrow...who knows


Here's hoping. It's been site-value rather than quantity. We typically get about 3-4 sites minimum/day, but they come out to apx. 200,000/each without nanoribbons. Radars and Mags have decreased a lot though. They were always about 1-3 a week but now it's averaging about 1 maybe 2 bi-weekly. And they have low salvage value too.

We still have been making no progress on this front. It's been months for our pilots, most are just starting up PI. If nothing changes soon, we'll probably have to reduce the group in the WH. Just not enough revenue to split unfortunately. And I wish we had some better raid pilots, might have a few T3's in a month or so with those able to stay.
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-01-24 15:08:26 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Nanoribbons per wreck (and by extension, per site) is random. Random is random.

Now, the number of complete sites you get spawning in your WH per hour/day/week/month is entirely dependent on someone else doing them, somewhere else in that wormhole constellation.

If you couple this with the nanoribbon prices themselves, you come to one conclusion: people are not running as many sleeper sites.

And why would you? Capital escalation aside, you earn more per hour in a highsec Incursion.

WH space is very, very, very quiet since Incursions came around.


Again, there is no such thing as random. And there are no goons.

What you're referring to as random is an algorithm designed to reduce or rather to spread resource bias and local redundancies.

Big smile
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-01-24 15:10:26 UTC
Captain Evenwel wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Nanoribbons per wreck (and by extension, per site) is random. Random is random.

Now, the number of complete sites you get spawning in your WH per hour/day/week/month is entirely dependent on someone else doing them, somewhere else in that wormhole constellation.

If you couple this with the nanoribbon prices themselves, you come to one conclusion: people are not running as many sleeper sites.

And why would you? Capital escalation aside, you earn more per hour in a highsec Incursion.

WH space is very, very, very quiet since Incursions came around.


Again, there is no such thing as random. And there are no goons.

What you're referring to as random is an algorithm designed to reduce or rather to spread resource bias and local redundancies.

Big smile


And that could also be described as post hoc, that's why I'm begging the question of CCP. Hopefully I'm wrong
Obax Bannon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-01-24 15:10:46 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Nanoribbons per wreck (and by extension, per site) is random. Random is random.

Now, the number of complete sites you get spawning in your WH per hour/day/week/month is entirely dependent on someone else doing them, somewhere else in that wormhole constellation.

If you couple this with the nanoribbon prices themselves, you come to one conclusion: people are not running as many sleeper sites.

And why would you? Capital escalation aside, you earn more per hour in a highsec Incursion.

WH space is very, very, very quiet since Incursions came around.


I would say that the above factors in bold have probably contributed to this.
Certainly from looking on eveeye at the 7 day constellation activity chart it would appear that the sleeper
kill rates have dropped by a huge number which would also tally up with the above comments regarding spawns.

One thing tho is that Incursions have been around for around a year or so now....this wormhole spawn drop rate
I can only see as far back as maybe the crucible release or maybe shortly after that.
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-01-24 15:16:59 UTC
Obax Bannon wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Nanoribbons per wreck (and by extension, per site) is random. Random is random.

Now, the number of complete sites you get spawning in your WH per hour/day/week/month is entirely dependent on someone else doing them, somewhere else in that wormhole constellation.

If you couple this with the nanoribbon prices themselves, you come to one conclusion: people are not running as many sleeper sites.

And why would you? Capital escalation aside, you earn more per hour in a highsec Incursion.

WH space is very, very, very quiet since Incursions came around.


I would say that the above factors in bold have probably contributed to this.
Certainly from looking on eveeye at the 7 day constellation activity chart it would appear that the sleeper
kill rates have dropped by a huge number which would also tally up with the above comments regarding spawns.

One thing tho is that Incursions have been around for around a year or so now....this wormhole spawn drop rate
I can only see as far back as maybe the crucible release or maybe shortly after that.


Right, and the theory for this could just as well be explained by less valuable wormholes. You could actually put the 2 theories together.
Obax Bannon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-01-24 15:23:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Obax Bannon
Captain Evenwel wrote:

Right, and the theory for this could just as well be explained by less valuable wormholes. You could actually put the 2 theories together.


Yep you definately could do.
From looking at eveeye tho it indicates that around 4 of the J systems in our constellation have been inactive for 4-5 days at a time.
It would be interesting to see if this was because the systems were empty and the sites had built up or if they were occupied and no activity was due to the lack of spawns in them which would therefore back up what we are thinking

It will be interesting to see over the next 3-4 weeks post patch if anything changes
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#49 - 2012-01-25 09:37:07 UTC
Captain Evenwel wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Nanoribbons per wreck (and by extension, per site) is random. Random is random.

Now, the number of complete sites you get spawning in your WH per hour/day/week/month is entirely dependent on someone else doing them, somewhere else in that wormhole constellation.

If you couple this with the nanoribbon prices themselves, you come to one conclusion: people are not running as many sleeper sites.

And why would you? Capital escalation aside, you earn more per hour in a highsec Incursion.

WH space is very, very, very quiet since Incursions came around.


Again, there is no such thing as random. And there are no goons.

What you're referring to as random is an algorithm designed to reduce or rather to spread resource bias and local redundancies.

Big smile

No, it really is random. As in, there is a chance per wreck of getting a nanoribbon. There is no algorithm which tries to "spread" that randomness around, since random is random. Nothing affects the chance; it is random.

This exact topic has been debated on these forums since 2009 - someone new always pops up, claiming a "stealth nanoribbon nerf."

Incidentally, someone always pops up and says "since patch [name here] all my invention jobs are failing more ... stealth invention nerf?" No ... random is random.

No one has ever been able to prove it, other than "like, we totally used to get more dude!"

To prove a decrease, you will need to show some figures. Start ACTUALLY counting the ribbons per site.

n.b. at this point, it is much more likely that your salvager(s) are keeping some for themselves and claiming bad luck Lol

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-01-25 11:17:02 UTC
I think he was being sarcastic :P
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#51 - 2012-01-25 11:57:37 UTC
St Mio wrote:
I think he was being sarcastic :P


Who knows. His op was "I've run 8-10 sites and my conclusions are ..."

Worth saying either way.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-01-25 12:01:42 UTC
To be fair some people do seem to go out of their way to ensure I remain having absolutely no faith in the human race Big smile
Grukni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-01-25 14:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Grukni
Confirming that our friends have also experienced a dramatic decrease in nanoribbons and drone AIs drop rate since at least a couple of weeks.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-01-25 14:32:05 UTC
These guys obviously have their ducks in a row and a solid background in statistics. I see no reason to try and refute their data.


[edit]

Just got 7 ribbons from a C1 WH site.
Grukni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-01-25 14:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Grukni
Derath Ellecon wrote:
These guys obviously have their ducks in a row and a solid background in statistics. I see no reason to try and refute their data.


[edit]

Just got 7 ribbons from a C1 WH site.


It may be just bad luck, but it is reasonable to think that there's something else than randomness when you only get 1-3 nanoribbons from anomalies in a C3... everyday for two weeks in a row.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-01-25 14:50:00 UTC
Grukni wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
These guys obviously have their ducks in a row and a solid background in statistics. I see no reason to try and refute their data.


[edit]

Just got 7 ribbons from a C1 WH site.


It may be just bad luck, but it is reasonable to think that there's something else than randomness when you only get 1-3 nanoribbons from anomalies in a C3... everyday for two weeks in a row.



Ever study probability and statistics?

It's ok though. In another week when you suddenly get a huge number of ribbon drops you can come back singing CCP's praises that they fixed it.
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-01-25 17:29:39 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Grukni wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
These guys obviously have their ducks in a row and a solid background in statistics. I see no reason to try and refute their data.


[edit]

Just got 7 ribbons from a C1 WH site.


It may be just bad luck, but it is reasonable to think that there's something else than randomness when you only get 1-3 nanoribbons from anomalies in a C3... everyday for two weeks in a row.



Ever study probability and statistics?

It's ok though. In another week when you suddenly get a huge number of ribbon drops you can come back singing CCP's praises that they fixed it.


You ever listen to a modern mathematician or theoretical scientist? Random is a word to a concept of what we can't fully explain. Just like "The earth is flat, everything points to flat, just except it". So very many things have pattern, the chaosticians and staticians themselves struggle to explain this.

As for the point to my delusion, I'm sure it could be. I won't throw that out of the possibilities for a minute and would prefer it to be the truth really. But 4 months is far from delusion. "If your friend's dad loses his job, it's a recession. If you're dad loses his job, it's a depression". We're feeling the hurt, folks are leaving. If it's a winter, than it's pretty damn bitter.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-01-25 18:11:47 UTC
Captain Evenwel wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Grukni wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
These guys obviously have their ducks in a row and a solid background in statistics. I see no reason to try and refute their data.


[edit]

Just got 7 ribbons from a C1 WH site.


It may be just bad luck, but it is reasonable to think that there's something else than randomness when you only get 1-3 nanoribbons from anomalies in a C3... everyday for two weeks in a row.



Ever study probability and statistics?

It's ok though. In another week when you suddenly get a huge number of ribbon drops you can come back singing CCP's praises that they fixed it.


You ever listen to a modern mathematician or theoretical scientist? Random is a word to a concept of what we can't fully explain. Just like "The earth is flat, everything points to flat, just except it". So very many things have pattern, the chaosticians and staticians themselves struggle to explain this.

As for the point to my delusion, I'm sure it could be. I won't throw that out of the possibilities for a minute and would prefer it to be the truth really. But 4 months is far from delusion. "If your friend's dad loses his job, it's a recession. If you're dad loses his job, it's a depression". We're feeling the hurt, folks are leaving. If it's a winter, than it's pretty damn bitter.






Yes,

I graduated with a degree in mathematics. Wasn't half bad at it either, until I took an arrow to the knee.
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-01-25 18:18:22 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Captain Evenwel wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Nanoribbons per wreck (and by extension, per site) is random. Random is random.

Now, the number of complete sites you get spawning in your WH per hour/day/week/month is entirely dependent on someone else doing them, somewhere else in that wormhole constellation.

If you couple this with the nanoribbon prices themselves, you come to one conclusion: people are not running as many sleeper sites.

And why would you? Capital escalation aside, you earn more per hour in a highsec Incursion.

WH space is very, very, very quiet since Incursions came around.


Again, there is no such thing as random. And there are no goons.

What you're referring to as random is an algorithm designed to reduce or rather to spread resource bias and local redundancies.

Big smile

No, it really is random. As in, there is a chance per wreck of getting a nanoribbon. There is no algorithm which tries to "spread" that randomness around, since random is random. Nothing affects the chance; it is random.

This exact topic has been debated on these forums since 2009 - someone new always pops up, claiming a "stealth nanoribbon nerf."

Incidentally, someone always pops up and says "since patch [name here] all my invention jobs are failing more ... stealth invention nerf?" No ... random is random.

No one has ever been able to prove it, other than "like, we totally used to get more dude!"

To prove a decrease, you will need to show some figures. Start ACTUALLY counting the ribbons per site.

n.b. at this point, it is much more likely that your salvager(s) are keeping some for themselves and claiming bad luck Lol
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-01-25 18:19:35 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Captain Evenwel wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Grukni wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
These guys obviously have their ducks in a row and a solid background in statistics. I see no reason to try and refute their data.


[edit]

Just got 7 ribbons from a C1 WH site.


It may be just bad luck, but it is reasonable to think that there's something else than randomness when you only get 1-3 nanoribbons from anomalies in a C3... everyday for two weeks in a row.



Ever study probability and statistics?

It's ok though. In another week when you suddenly get a huge number of ribbon drops you can come back singing CCP's praises that they fixed it.


You ever listen to a modern mathematician or theoretical scientist? Random is a word to a concept of what we can't fully explain. Just like "The earth is flat, everything points to flat, just except it". So very many things have pattern, the chaosticians and staticians themselves struggle to explain this.

As for the point to my delusion, I'm sure it could be. I won't throw that out of the possibilities for a minute and would prefer it to be the truth really. But 4 months is far from delusion. "If your friend's dad loses his job, it's a recession. If you're dad loses his job, it's a depression". We're feeling the hurt, folks are leaving. If it's a winter, than it's pretty damn bitter.






Yes,

I graduated with a degree in mathematics. Wasn't half bad at it either, until I took an arrow to the knee.


Ha ha he, well I take knee to your amazing sir.