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Drake changes from CSM minutes.
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Izlare
State War Academy
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-01-24 08:05:06 UTC
I think the drake is perfect. Its slow as ****, built like a brick and can (slowly) whittle away a lot of targets. Increasing its average DPS a little bit and its range while seriously harming its tank will make it less useful.
Jeremy Ironforge
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2012-01-24 08:16:03 UTC
Izlare wrote:
I think the drake is perfect. Its slow as ****, built like a brick and can (slowly) whittle away a lot of targets. Increasing its average DPS a little bit and its range while seriously harming its tank will make it less useful.


On the countrary:

7xCompact 'Limos' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[Empty High slot]

2xLarge Shield Extender II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive/Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburners
2xInvulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II

2xBallistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
2xMedium Core Defence Field Extender I

This setup will have 68k EHP and 320 DPS with SP <1kk

Before ppl had to fly smth like 150 DPS with HML.
Izlare
State War Academy
Caldari State
#163 - 2012-01-24 08:59:41 UTC
Jeremy, what are you trying to say? I R confused.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#164 - 2012-01-24 10:04:22 UTC
have this weird feeling that this is going to go one of two ways.

1) People scream loud enough and it stays the same.Cry

2) It gets changed and it turns out that 7 launchers with ROF and increased missile speed (AKA reducing the delay in damage delivery) is broken.Twisted

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Michael Banki
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2012-01-24 11:52:07 UTC
If you wanna change it, switch the resist bonus with shield hp bonus. That way it will be harder to omni tank it. Its gonna have same damage, same predictability with kinetic and you still gonna be able to passive fit it for pve, just active tanking will be harder.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#166 - 2012-01-24 12:17:29 UTC
Dig Ito wrote:
A Drake in it's present form, complete t2 fitted, can zip through level 4s..try it yourself....

The purpose of the recomended changes is to weed out the casual players, who pay for their time with cash, not plex.
Maybe CCPs finance department will wake up.....


Which L4 mission do you think you would be unable to do with the NewDrake?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#167 - 2012-01-24 14:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
I don't understand why people are crying about this. You call this a "NERF" ?

Well actually I wouldn't really like to cross a gang with a few of those HAM's fitted from now on, with my cane or even less with my cyna, those Drake gangs are going to murder everything in their path.
As for fleets, c'mon guys be inventive be smart you'll see the drake is ONLY getting a huge buff for the job as a BC he's intended to do and leave more place for smart people to find new fits/setups.

Cruise Ravens?
Rails Megas?
Rails Rokh's? (sorry couldn't avoid having a good laugh irl when I wrote this one and Rails Mega)

There's a lot of place for new setups, now the best one will still be Arty Maelstrom if nothing is done to give Rails some firepower or whatever to Cruise stuff and Lazors stuff
Wait, lasers have trouble? -do you guys tried to fit beams instead of pulse to shoot pass 100km?- I read somewhere meta Tach's are arty like.
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#168 - 2012-01-24 14:56:55 UTC
Lots of posters are experienced player - did you forget that you once been young (noob) player? Drake is rare ship that starting players can use to run lvl 3 missions without fear that will loose the ship and can make some descent money to buy equipment and others ship.

Many 3+ years players are roaming high sectors and still preaching about LS and Null ... How many of you are in low sectors - millions? Or low sector is little deserted than ...?

I understand that CCP is doing this - losing ships and equipment is more money for them, but other players ... If you dont fly Drakes or do not like them, why bothering about Drakes so much? And yes, there are others ships around to fly, but to collect and spare some ISK, the Drake is almost best to do that (for running missions - PVE).

And many are shouting about independence and such, but still want to be a CEO of 1000+ corp with noobs to collect easy ISK? Give others chance to make a descent star, to build up some SP and that you can start killing them or preaching for low and null epic battles.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
mecubed
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2012-01-24 15:08:02 UTC
Scien Inkunen wrote:
Lots of posters are experienced player - did you forget that you once been young (noob) player? Drake is rare ship that starting players can use to run lvl 3 missions without fear that will loose the ship and can make some descent money to buy equipment and others ship.

Many 3+ years players are roaming high sectors and still preaching about LS and Null ... How many of you are in low sectors - millions? Or low sector is little deserted than ...?

I understand that CCP is doing this - losing ships and equipment is more money for them, but other players ... If you dont fly Drakes or do not like them, why bothering about Drakes so much? And yes, there are others ships around to fly, but to collect and spare some ISK, the Drake is almost best to do that (for running missions - PVE).

And many are shouting about independence and such, but still want to be a CEO of 1000+ corp with noobs to collect easy ISK? Give others chance to make a descent star, to build up some SP and that you can start killing them or preaching for low and null epic battles.


Its usually Minnie pilots who complain because their Cane cant **** a drake as easily as every other BC. If you actually start seeing how many fly the drake here and compare to others who dont, which are the people who complain about it and scream nerf.. Then youll see.

Which is why minnie ships need a nerf bat, you see more of them on fleets than about everything and they are pretty much superior to everything else. Hence( Winmatar)
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#170 - 2012-01-27 21:20:13 UTC
For the benefit of the ones panicking about this change:
Stats post-buff
DPS: Same with kinetic, 25% better with other damage types
Missile range: Around 100km
Tank: 60-65k

Hardly broken, is it?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#171 - 2012-01-27 21:21:57 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
For the benefit of the ones panicking about this change:
Stats post-buff
DPS: Same with kinetic, 25% better with other damage types
Missile range: Around 100km
Tank: 60-65k

Hardly broken, is it?


Are the changes on sisi already?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2012-01-27 21:42:36 UTC
Max Von Sydow wrote:
What do you think of the drake changes mentioned in the CSM meeting minutes.


"CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus."


Why completely change an existing ship into something totally different. This no longer makes it the safe boat you can dip your toes into the higher end missions with low-SP boat that it used to be.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#173 - 2012-01-27 21:45:21 UTC
Quote:
Are the changes on sisi already?

-Liang

No, just EFTing. For the tank I just set BC skill to 0 to lose the shield bonus. For missile range I used the Caracal, etc.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#174 - 2012-01-27 21:48:02 UTC
Ah - then your math is wrong. They were proposing a ROF + Range bonus which means even its kin damage is higher.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#175 - 2012-01-27 22:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Yeah, the DPS would be 33.3% higher for non-kinetic and, er, 6.7% higher for kinetic.

I'm equally saddened and amused that CCP would consider buffing the Drake so much. P
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#176 - 2012-01-27 22:09:33 UTC
Not much in the way of math, to be honest. Ok yeah I'll admit now it was a bit of a crude estimate. I didn't think I'd underestimated it though O_o
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#177 - 2012-01-27 22:11:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Not much in the way of math, to be honest. Ok yeah I'll admit now it was a bit of a crude estimate. I didn't think I'd underestimated it though O_o


Yeah my biggest objection to the change is that its a change to the role the ship plays - and that role change is going to step on the toes of ships that should better fill it. There's nothing wrong with a bruiser tank and spank BC... if the complaint is that it really does everything too well, then maybe they should adjust some of the base stats to disallow that.

But a role change? I'll pass.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#178 - 2012-01-27 22:13:08 UTC
The non-kinetic DPS increase is very impressive, really. People sometimes criticise kinetic as a damage type, although this is mostly based on T2 resist spreads, it's respectable enough against T1 resists.

But full damage type selectivity, plus a further 25% DPS increase in those circumstances where you can use velocity-boosted HAMs instead of HMLs, is a change not to be underestimated... Honestly I'd be surprised if CCP makes this change.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#179 - 2012-01-27 22:14:40 UTC
Yeah velocity boosted HAMs was one of the first things that stood out to me - 30km range on those things with that DPS? Umm...
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#180 - 2012-01-27 22:20:19 UTC
Yeah, missile velocity bonuses are funny things, sometimes the bonus isn't really worth much, but over the 20-30 km range window it can become remarkably useful, if the host platform is mobile enough.

Current dual BCS HML Drake: 295 DPS from non-kinetic missiles, excl. drones.
Future dual BCS HAM Drake: 492 DPS from all missiles, excl. drones - that's 66.8% more.

Relative ease of damage application is another question of course.