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Training up for L4s, ...Cruise, Heavy, HAM, or Torpedo?
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Jedidiah Togenada
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-07-08 00:52:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jedidiah Togenada
I've gotten my status up so that I can run Caldari L4s, but not sure I've skilled up enough to tackle them.

I'm probably going to start with a Gila, as I've gotten my Med Drone skills up to lvl4 (light drones at 5), ...and then move into a Raven, Navy Raven or , ultimately, a Rattlesnake when my weapons skills catch up. (Although I have Machariel envy, I just haven't been skilling in that direction...yet.)

I'm at 3s with Cruise, Heavy and Torpedoes, and at level 2 for HAMs. (My Light Missile Skills are at 5, with most of the missile support skills at 4).

Most of the fits I've seen have been with Cruise missiles, but you see the occasional outlier using Rapid Heavies or Torpedoes. Are these the best weapons for L4s?

Since I'm kind of at the cusp of committing to some big training for lvl 4s and 5s in missile skills, I wanted some feed back on which are most appropriate for that line of ships. I don't want to waste half a month of training to find out I'm using the wrong weapon for the mission.

Thanks in advance. The advice I've gleaned from these forums has been immensely helpful to me as a new player. It's very much appreciated that folks with experience are willing to share it.
Nerdz Rool
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2017-07-08 02:08:55 UTC
Hi buddy!

Great thing you found the forums!

A Gila with "low" sp might be a problem for level 4's, since most people use the long range of cruise missiles to range tank the missions. And a Gila just doesnt get that range. Progression could Raven -> Raven Navy Issue -> Golem. Personally id focus on training one weapon system at a time (missiles OR drones) and not both at the same time for the Rattlesnake.

If you have any more questions let me know!
Jedidiah Togenada
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2017-07-08 02:46:57 UTC
Nerdz Rool wrote:
Hi buddy!

Great thing you found the forums!

A Gila with "low" sp might be a problem for level 4's, since most people use the long range of cruise missiles to range tank the missions. And a Gila just doesnt get that range. Progression could Raven -> Raven Navy Issue -> Golem. Personally id focus on training one weapon system at a time (missiles OR drones) and not both at the same time for the Rattlesnake.

If you have any more questions let me know!


So if I head the Raven route, ...Cruise Missiles to 5?

Out of curiosity, what's the best use for Heavies and HAM? Or are they of more use in other theatres, like WH/sleepers or PvP?

Thanks.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2017-07-08 04:25:18 UTC
gila uses an afterburner and it's cruiser size to speed and sig tank missions. It can simply evade most of the damage level 4s can do. You do have to watch out for webbing as that will let the NPCs hit you better. Also the gila can fit a rather large tank for a cruiser so it can afford to take some beating even if it gets slowed down a bit.

Range tanking is possible but not optimal. if you have to resort to range tanking lv4s you would probably be better off figuring out how to speed run level 3s. When I was a newb I had to facetank missions as MJDs didn't exist

for level 4s I'd take cruise, as they give the best combo of damage and application. Torps are good dps but short range and not good application. Rapid heavies can be nice, but they are due to get nerfed pretty soon, at least in the mean time they have pretty good application, but not the greatest range, also the long reload is boring to sit through. And if you do use the gila you will probably want to choose rapid lights to kill frigs, or heavies for the extra range.

I'd suggest getting mostly level 4 skills with the raven, and then start training for the mach. Spending some time on the raven will give you adequate to grind up some isk and standings to put you in a good spot to use the mach to the best of its ability.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#5 - 2017-07-08 05:27:35 UTC
I agree with, would recommend the Raven as well. Cruise missiles are awesome for missions, and are a long time standard for Caldari missioners.

Heavies, rapids, hams, etc. These are weapons that are better suited for cruisers and battle cruisers. You can fit anything on anything, but the basic approach for battle ships, is to use large weapons. When you get more experience, trying different weapons will be more for the fun/learning experience.

With both weapon classes, (Cruise or Heavy) you want to be sure of the direction you are going, because BS and large weapon skills are a different path than cruiser and medium weapons.

When you are in doubt, train the missile SUPORT skills. They help all class of missile, and will improve whatever ship/launcher you have mounted.

Good light drones are another *smart investment*
Good skills on 5 light drones may save your ship some day.
Again with the SUPORT skills. They really make your drones shine.


Level IV's can take your ship. I recommend insurance on your first ship o
Muffinmixer
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2017-07-13 15:25:14 UTC
It depends entirely on how you want to run L4 missions. Do you want to full-clear them? Or do you want to speed-clear (blitz)?

If you want to full-clear, the Raven with Cruise Missiles is probably your best bet, which can be upgraded to a Navy Raven and finally a Rattlesnake. The Golem is another option to the Rattlesnake, but it deals less damage in exchange for more tank which I'd argue you don't really need.

For speed-clearing, you'd be more than fine with a HAM or HML Gila, which you'd eventually upgrade into a RHML Barghest (which is better than the Machariel). With Blitzing your main focus would be to invest training time into Caldari/Minmattar Frigates, armor skills, and rockets/small blasters so you can run the Anomic Missions, and using whatever ship works right now for speed-clearing regular L4 missions.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2017-07-13 22:39:58 UTC
Jedidiah Togenada wrote:

Most of the fits I've seen have been with Cruise missiles, but you see the occasional outlier using Rapid Heavies or Torpedoes. Are these the best weapons for L4s?



There isn't a 'best weapon' really. There's just the weapon that you prefer using that does the job that you need it to do.

Cruise missiles are great at nuking large targets at very long range, they suck at nuking medium sized targets (or smaller) at any range.

Rapid Heavies just lower the effective range you can fire at, and move the reliable damage vs target down a size category whilst lowering the maximum damage done at the same time. You're effectively swapping 1 cruise missile for 2 heavy missiles each time a launcher fires.



Torpedo's .. dunno, I've never really used them, but they used to be known for needing TP+Web assistance just to do well against the large targets they were designed to nuke, it may have changed but I never read about it anywhere.

If you like sniping from extreme ranges then mjd + cruise missiles + sentries will be your thing, if you don't look into AB + heavy drones + rhml (for the Gila just downscale to AB + medium drones + rlml)

I find a speed tanking brawler to be more fun than sniping from range .. which the Gila does well Big smile
Rald
Burn Out LLC
#8 - 2017-07-14 11:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Rald
I use a cruise phoon for level 4s and it works well. More forgiving than a pirate cruiser. Your biggest single DPS increases will come from BS 5 and getting T2 missiles (and the T2 launchers to fire them). Given the RNI --> Rattlesnake path I tecommend you go Raven and fight at range while your skills improve. Once you have your moneymaker set up and working well then go exotic. You'll know then you can always replace your losses quickly.