Player Features and Ideas Discussion

And you're not going to get it because CCP won't design gameplay that requires Alts, which is what this is.

Cade is a useless forum troll and will argue the sky is magenta just to convince himself he knows something. Engaging with him is worse than instasvipuls.


Daichi, this is a horrid response from you though, it's like you didn't even try. OBVIOUSLY if I throw a rattlsnake victory in my obelisk and yolo it across high sec, that skews the results. I wasn't talking about that though, and I don't think most people are. No, we're talking about how it's pretty much worthwhile to gank an empty freighter, because KB green and minmaxed strategies that make the loss worth it, and the moment you put freight in it, it's just isk back in pocket.



I've done a fair share of ganking, but admittedly most of that is in thrashers, caty's and ruptures. 2-3 guys can make a ridiculous amount of isk doing it, and that's before getting into the 'good stuff' of freighters and incursion ships. I don't really care how many people want to argue til their purple in the face, that doesn't change anything. Ganking is out of balance, and these calls to make the few ships that can deal with ganking even a little bit, more helpless are proof positive.

Cade, changing concord response times has little to do with Web and alts. It's just to lower the entry level of ganking freighters. Red frog make profit through sheer volume. Like ganking, no one else wants to do it because it's not worth it. But the amount of people making contracts instead of moving their own stuff is small. It's easy and safe enough to move your own stuff pretty much all the time. In an ideal world, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to contract out big hauls over long distances.

Pretty much every economic report shows production significantly higher than destruction. Suggesting every month the surplus is being added to. Prices are driven down and you can see this right now where some ships are un-profitable to make. It may be ridiculous to you but I'm far from alone in this thinking.

Ken, why would we want to stop something as intangible as green killboard ganking? How would you even stop it? Make freighters cost less than the destroyers it takes to kill them? Isk tank everything? That makes no sense.

Let me see if I am following your twisted logic.
Goons are ganking everything but their friends so we need to lower the EHP or increase Concord response times to open the field to other players.
So we have a more wide open field for others to play on, the real question is with the Goons killing everything now what would be left on that field for the others?


I am not convinced by your statement that you are not a ganker, but it matters little because you still promote changes to the game that benefit the gankers and punish the rest of us. If those hundreds of freighters are the problem then perhaps you should become a ganker, make ISK AND eliminate part of the competition all in one easy go that is a win - win situation.

You see I NEVER believed that line of marketing hype BS from fan-fest why?
There was insufficient information given on how the study was done and how they chose the accounts to look at. Most notable in this is the simple question did they actually send out questionnaires or did they simply analyze data from the logs? Given that over the last 38 years I have watched my wife and the attorneys she works with twist data to support a claim let's just say I am a little skeptical about this aspect of the study and the results presented.

It does not fit with the personal experiences of myself and more than a dozen other real life friends that play EvE.

But mostly I do not believe it because the claim does not fit with the changes we see in game. As you stated there have been repeated nerfs to ganking and there have been repeated nerfs to the other non-consensual PvP in the gameas well. If non-consensual PvP does not cause people to leave the game then there is no logic behind and no reason for these repeated nerfs. On the other hand if we simply accept that non-consensual PvP DOES cause players to leave the game then these repeated nerfs make sense as CCP struggles to find a balance between both sides knowing that any changes they make risk losing players on one side or the other.

@ cade
My understanding of that graph is that destruction was measured in value of destroyed items. Not mineral value. Otherwise what was the point of this?
Is there anywhere that it says that destruction is measured in minerals?

@ Donna
Yup. Overloaded and afk freighters die. Freighters that are protected/used smartly die less. Problem?

And i have no doubt that non-consensual pvp makes some people leave. But what I've always said is that these players are going to leave anyways. They are the players that level up their raven and quit. They were always quitting. Even when eve was growing every year, these players were quitting. The problem is when ccp try to retain such players at the expense of their core players. And thats why sub numbers are falling (and have been since crime watch dealt the biggest blow to wardecs and ganking). They've swapped players that would stick around for years for those who last about a month.

Now ccp are apparently grasping at anything to get bits of cash.

Your personal experience is exactly that. Biased by the people you surround yourself with. I've seen entire alliances die out after crime watch and wardec nerfs. Alliances that cultured new bros, showing them how the little guy with no sp could hunt big stupid fish.

I don't see a problem having to use at least 10 characters to engage in a criminal activity against an otherwise defenseless targets.

Hey there is a stone statue of a Care Bear over there. Maybe you and your band of ten criminals can go Pogue Hone the defenseless thing.

A freighter can be saved by a single pilot on the right ship. The same way it can be bumped out of alignment, it can be bumped back into it's warp vector and sent on its merry way.

I may be a ganker, but like everyone else I have freighter pilots -- multiple, in fact -- and never one of them was helpless against a bumper. I just log an alt and rescue it, simple as that.

This is a tactic I've openly tried to teach anti-gankers just to see if they are capable of learning, but for some reason no one seems to be interested. Well, can you blame them? Not once I saw a hauler show proper appreciation for the rescue they receive. Promises of payment are never honored, so they might as well just let them die and try to steal some loot instead.

Those haulers just want to complain that their life is too hard and they are too vulnerable, yet they try to traffic through Niarja and Uedama with ludicrous amounts of ISK in cargo completely ignoring the fact that gankers exist and will try to take that from them.

There is nothing wrong with the ships, the problem are the pilots.