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Bot or not?
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Aelavaine
Aelavaine's Corporation
#1 - 2017-06-30 12:26:57 UTC
Hello,

before I write a support ticket I'd like to ask the community first. Bot or not?:

There is this character, who is updating his market orders once a hour, for 24 hours a day, without any interuption for almost a year. The time this character and his corp is old.

I bought his stuff to see if it's the same character, I created and changed market orders around the clock to see if there is a time when this character is inactive, I tried to trick him into errors with odd price values. Nothing worked.

As said, that character is updating his market orders in time like a clock. Once a hour, 24/7, by always the same odd amount, without any breaks or human errors.

Does this sound to you like human behaviour?

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Revis Owen
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#2 - 2017-06-30 13:10:25 UTC
If not a bot, certainly bot aspirant. Definitely not Code compliant. This Code agent would be happy to kick open a CQ door and shoot the guy in the face, if WiS PvP existed.

Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
Salvos Rhoska
#3 - 2017-06-30 13:28:30 UTC
Report the account with some screenshots of the automatic order changes.

Let CCP deal with it.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#4 - 2017-06-30 13:41:25 UTC
Revis Owen wrote:
If not a bot, certainly bot aspirant. Definitely not Code compliant. This Code agent would be happy to kick open a CQ door and shoot the guy in the face, if WiS PvP existed.


I would be careful with that. What if it turns out that guy is playing first person shooters on their console the entire time they're not updating orders in EVE? You would be slaughtered.
Aelavaine
Aelavaine's Corporation
#5 - 2017-06-30 13:59:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Aelavaine
Owen Levanth wrote:
Revis Owen wrote:
If not a bot, certainly bot aspirant. Definitely not Code compliant. This Code agent would be happy to kick open a CQ door and shoot the guy in the face, if WiS PvP existed.


I would be careful with that. What if it turns out that guy is playing first person shooters on their console the entire time they're not updating orders in EVE? You would be slaughtered.
I guess Code is well trained in suicide missions. - They'll handle this.

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Axure Abbacus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-06-30 14:05:21 UTC
Revis Owen wrote:
If not a bot, certainly bot aspirant. Definitely not Code compliant. This Code agent would be happy to kick open a CQ door and shoot the guy in the face, if WiS PvP existed.
That is, and shall ever the only reason to implement WiS, to shoot barbie bot in the face and space her pistol whipped corpse out an air lock.

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
Aelavaine
Aelavaine's Corporation
#7 - 2017-06-30 14:52:24 UTC
Thanks guys, I'll report him! - I was just in doubt to miss something and am wondering how something so obvious doesn't get noticed by CCP.

Shouldn't take much effort to take a quick look into the database to check who is continuously 24/7 online and active. In any case that's either a bot or account sharing.

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radkid10
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-07-01 04:02:28 UTC
the reason why Market Bots are hard to catch they're not as active as other Bots the more active a bot program is the easier it is to catch it's hard to notice a market bot Behavior you literally have to pay attention to every detail in the market other words you have to be a marketer like yourself to catch one ;3
Alhira Katserna
Deep Space Exploration And Exploitation
#9 - 2017-07-01 05:25:56 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Revis Owen wrote:
If not a bot, certainly bot aspirant. Definitely not Code compliant. This Code agent would be happy to kick open a CQ door and shoot the guy in the face, if WiS PvP existed.


I would be careful with that. What if it turns out that guy is playing first person shooters on their console the entire time they're not updating orders in EVE? You would be slaughtered.


Don´t worry, he would only come with 5 other guys. Or undock if there comes a second guy around the corner.
The Devils Cousin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2017-07-01 09:36:02 UTC
It is very hard for CCP to ban bots and people need to stop giving them a hard time, there re bigger issues at play here than a few botters in your home system

CCP Please Don't Do This..

The Respawn Expansion
Aelavaine
Aelavaine's Corporation
#11 - 2017-07-01 10:48:56 UTC
The Devils Cousin wrote:
...there re bigger issues at play here than a few botters in your home system
I guess with those issues you mean your issues.

That bot isn't restricted to my "home system", it's active on all four trade hubs. I can relate this character to several corporations (plural!) with 4 members each, one for every major trade hub. All Corporations and alts following the same name scheme, even the corp logos are identical and so on.

Sadly I can't give you the name (in doubt for the accused), if so you would agree with me how something so obvious doesn't get noticed by CCP. And that's the scary thing you should be worried about too, even if the market isn't your thing.

If you say, that CCP should not care about the activity of players who literally screaming I'm a bot and don't even bother to try to hide that, you should reevaluate the priorities in your list of big issues.

Anyway, it's reported.

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Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#12 - 2017-07-01 16:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir SmashAlot
Start pushing prices around. Some bots will not keep track of their entry price. If that is the case you can profit from them. Some bots will operate with % change rules and/or use floors and ceilings, and with some trial and error you can determine their rule tables and exploit that too.

Human traders will only fall for pump and dump once and then dramatically change their behavior. Usually send you a rage mail or gg after. Bots will not.

Some bots work as families to give the idea that it is a person trading during their time zone, it is pretty funny to watch two or more characters over the course of a day operate with terrifyingly similar behavior on the same basket of items.

Really obvious bots, I would say last about 6 to 12 months in character age before abruptly stopping activities. While I cannot speak for CCP's security team but I suspect it takes a lot of observation to know for sure.

Opening trade windows can shut them down too. Most humans will convo, add a joke item to a trade window, or close it. Bots will keep trading or stop trading depending on how they have aligned their interface.

Trading can be a passive activity for some while they work on other things so it can be difficult to determine without a few weeks/months of observation and even then it can be just a wild guess.
Fluffy Moe
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2017-07-02 19:54:50 UTC
The Devils Cousin wrote:
It is very hard for CCP to ban bots and people need to stop giving them a hard time, there re bigger issues at play here than a few botters in your home system


Actually its very easy. Ever flown through goon space and noticed same Domi farming with a horde of 20 Algosses for a year straight ?

tell me how hard are things like this to notice by an ingame GM ?

This is just an example, they're all over the place and obviously not just goonspace, most commonly found in mining and industrial stuff.

As far as market bots go, those are easily noticed as well. Just place sell orders and start point-o-one isking, see what happens on ceirtain items. Then rinse repeat before you go to work, after you go to work (or school or whatever) occasionally when you stay up through the night, see the same characters, always on, doing same things.

Not hard to catch at all by anyone. may be hard to catch if all you use to do so is an algorithm and automated report of one sort or another.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#14 - 2017-07-02 20:21:37 UTC
Fluffy Moe wrote:
The Devils Cousin wrote:
It is very hard for CCP to ban bots and people need to stop giving them a hard time, there re bigger issues at play here than a few botters in your home system


Actually its very easy. Ever flown through goon space and noticed same Domi farming with a horde of 20 Algosses for a year straight ?

tell me how hard are things like this to notice by an ingame GM ?

This is just an example, they're all over the place and obviously not just goonspace, most commonly found in mining and industrial stuff.

As far as market bots go, those are easily noticed as well. Just place sell orders and start point-o-one isking, see what happens on ceirtain items. Then rinse repeat before you go to work, after you go to work (or school or whatever) occasionally when you stay up through the night, see the same characters, always on, doing same things.

Not hard to catch at all by anyone. may be hard to catch if all you use to do so is an algorithm and automated report of one sort or another.


The problem is a matter of resources. I mean manpower, mostly.
CCP right now is dealing with that mess of ghost training, and the Fanfest ship fiasco, and the rorqual superbuff and subsequent nerf, and of course the gifting of 90% of all NPC bounties to the null sec cartels, and then having to deal with scaling that back.

CCP simply does not have enough employees to prioritize bots. Further, if that char is a year old, then it is an Omega, and a paying account. Those are a dwindling thing, and CCP can't afford to remove all of them from the game.