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Cyno Scrambler/ Disruptor
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Xzanos
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#1 - 2017-06-30 14:53:29 UTC
In a recent thread I posted the idea for a new module or script.

The idea is to prevent cyno bridging/jumping in a localized area.

A few key points for discussion

1. Should this be a targeted module or an area of effect?
2. What should the range be?
3. Highslot or mid slot?
4. Fitting restrictions ex. Ship type, 1 per ship, ext.
4. Should it prevent the activation of a cyno or prevent capitals from locking on to the cyno (mostly just tactical implications with this one)

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2 - 2017-06-30 15:48:48 UTC
Quote:
A few key points for discussion

1. Should this be a targeted module or an area of effect?
2. What should the range be?
3. Highslot or mid slot?
4. Fitting restrictions ex. Ship type, 1 per ship, ext.
4. Should it prevent the activation of a cyno or prevent capitals from locking on to the cyno (mostly just tactical implications with this one)


I like how all of your key points essentially assume that the idea itself is sound, and all that's left is hashing out the details.

There is already a mobile cyno inhibitor in the game. Use that.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Xzanos
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#3 - 2017-06-30 15:55:16 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Quote:
A few key points for discussion

1. Should this be a targeted module or an area of effect?
2. What should the range be?
3. Highslot or mid slot?
4. Fitting restrictions ex. Ship type, 1 per ship, ext.
4. Should it prevent the activation of a cyno or prevent capitals from locking on to the cyno (mostly just tactical implications with this one)


I like how all of your key points essentially assume that the idea itself is sound, and all that's left is hashing out the details.

There is already a mobile cyno inhibitor in the game. Use that.


The mobile cyno inhibitor has the huge flaw of.... a two min anchor time. By that time there are already 20 supers on grid. The role of this module would be to counter cyno bait. Without needing to have a capital escalation ready yourself.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2017-06-30 16:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Xzanos wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Quote:
A few key points for discussion

1. Should this be a targeted module or an area of effect?
2. What should the range be?
3. Highslot or mid slot?
4. Fitting restrictions ex. Ship type, 1 per ship, ext.
4. Should it prevent the activation of a cyno or prevent capitals from locking on to the cyno (mostly just tactical implications with this one)


I like how all of your key points essentially assume that the idea itself is sound, and all that's left is hashing out the details.

There is already a mobile cyno inhibitor in the game. Use that.


The mobile cyno inhibitor has the huge flaw of.... a two min anchor time. By that time there are already 20 supers on grid. The role of this module would be to counter cyno bait. Without needing to have a capital escalation ready yourself.



So you're saying they intentionally gave the ONLY portable cyno jam in the game a big glaring weakness, and you don't like that, so you're proposing the same thing, only without the big glaring weakness.

You haven't given this very much thought, have you?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Xzanos
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#5 - 2017-06-30 16:10:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Xzanos
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
So you're saying they intentionally gave the ONLY portable cyno jam in the game a big glaring weakness, and you don't like that, so you're proposing the same thing, only without the big glaring weakness.

You haven't given this very much thought, have you?


Why don't you post some changes that you think would make this less broken in your mind, your not being very constructive. First off it would be attached to a ship as a module, not just something you can deploy near the gates your going to be camping, and i doubt it would have 100km range like the mobile inhib so that is already a big difference.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#6 - 2017-06-30 16:21:49 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Xzanos wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
So you're saying they intentionally gave the ONLY portable cyno jam in the game a big glaring weakness, and you don't like that, so you're proposing the same thing, only without the big glaring weakness.

You haven't given this very much thought, have you?


Why don't you post some changes that you think would make this less broken in your mind, your not being very constructive. First off it would be attached to a ship as a module, not just something you can deploy near the gates your going to be camping, and i doubt it would have 100km range like the mobile inhib so that is already a big difference.


I'm being extremely constructive. I'm correctly pointing out that you're proposing something that already exists, and that the current implementation has several drawbacks, which are clearly intentional balance aspects, and that you're trying to eliminate those shortcomings.

You're not getting an instant-hotdrop-prevention-button. There is no acceptable implementation of what you're asking for.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Xzanos
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#7 - 2017-06-30 16:32:34 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Xzanos wrote:
[quote=SurrenderMonkey]So you're saying they intentionally gave the ONLY portable cyno jam in the game a big glaring weakness, and you don't like that, so you're proposing the same thing, only without the big glaring weakness.

You haven't given this very much thought, have you?


You're not getting an instant-hotdrop-prevention-button. There is no acceptable implementation of what you're asking for.


Its not instant-hotdrop-prevention... it just makes you need to have a fleet roaming for a fight to drop your supers on and not just 1 ship... you could easily still light a cyno with another character thats say... 50km away... and if its not an AOE and was a targeted module im only preventing that 1 ship from lighting cyno and his buddy 1000m away from me could still light one.

Maybe it would be more helpful if you posted WHY you think they balanced the current mobile inhib to include anchor time, and what situations you see it as being useful.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-06-30 16:39:47 UTC
Xzanos wrote:

Maybe it would be more helpful if you posted WHY you think they balanced the current mobile inhib to include anchor time, and what situations you see it as being useful.


The "why" is pretty obvious: It's because they're not supposed to function as an instant hotdrop prevention button. What is it that you're not grasping about this?

You're SUPPOSED to have to consider the possibility that your target is actually cyno bait. Throw a ship scanner on your hunter if it bothers you so much.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Cade Windstalker
#9 - 2017-06-30 16:54:33 UTC
Xzanos wrote:
The mobile cyno inhibitor has the huge flaw of.... a two min anchor time. By that time there are already 20 supers on grid. The role of this module would be to counter cyno bait. Without needing to have a capital escalation ready yourself.


That's the point of the existing deployable. It's not supposed to be super easy to stop someone from cynoing in reinforcements.

Xzanos wrote:
Why don't you post some changes that you think would make this less broken in your mind, your not being very constructive. First off it would be attached to a ship as a module, not just something you can deploy near the gates your going to be camping, and i doubt it would have 100km range like the mobile inhib so that is already a big difference.


This entire idea is just a more powerful version of something that already exists.

I really have to agree that you're assuming that your idea is good and going from there, when what you actually need to argue for is why the current state of cyno blocking is a problem.

By making it easy to block cynos you're effectively making it easy to stop fights from escalating, and that's *always* going to be advantageous to one side or the other, which means Cynos become relatively scarce as a tactic. Considering that many of the largest fights in Eve have happened because someone dropped a Cyno and the other side escalated I'm really not sure why this is at all desirable.

The argument is generally that hot-drops are OP so preventing them is desirable, but in that case you're effectively just turning something that *might* have been a one-sided fight for you to something that's almost definitely going to be a one-sided fight for whoever you just attacked. After all, the attacker is generally the one without a hot-drop on standby and gets the opportunity to pick whether or not they want to engage or not in the first place. The cyno is generally a defender's tool, at least in day to day gameplay as opposed to large deployments, so you're preventing fights from escalating and not much else. Nothing in this suggests better gameplay or a better overall experience compared to now.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-06-30 16:56:57 UTC
Xzanos wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Quote:
A few key points for discussion

1. Should this be a targeted module or an area of effect?
2. What should the range be?
3. Highslot or mid slot?
4. Fitting restrictions ex. Ship type, 1 per ship, ext.
4. Should it prevent the activation of a cyno or prevent capitals from locking on to the cyno (mostly just tactical implications with this one)


I like how all of your key points essentially assume that the idea itself is sound, and all that's left is hashing out the details.

There is already a mobile cyno inhibitor in the game. Use that.


The mobile cyno inhibitor has the huge flaw of.... a two min anchor time. By that time there are already 20 supers on grid. The role of this module would be to counter cyno bait. Without needing to have a capital escalation ready yourself.


In what region did you get hit by a sledge hammer by the local when you tried to engage their ratting/mining ship?
Xzanos
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#11 - 2017-06-30 17:00:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
In what region did you get hit by a sledge hammer by the local when you tried to engage their ratting/mining ship?


Actually this has never happend to me

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame
Xzanos
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#12 - 2017-06-30 17:00:47 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Xzanos wrote:

Maybe it would be more helpful if you posted WHY you think they balanced the current mobile inhib to include anchor time, and what situations you see it as being useful.


The "why" is pretty obvious: It's because they're not supposed to function as an instant hotdrop prevention button. What is it that you're not grasping about this?

You're SUPPOSED to have to consider the possibility that your target is actually cyno bait. Throw a ship scanner on your hunter if it bothers you so much.


I guess i just don't agree with 1 ship being able to stop 1 other ship from lighting a cyno counts as completely eliminating the ability to hotdrop. Even if it was an AOE limiting the range to less then the current mobile inhib, say 50km sets it apart.

And i did have to consider the possibility of cyno bait which is why I brought an entire ship/player to try and prepare for it.

One of my points was weather or not it stops the cyno or stops the jump. This could provide all kinds of content creation if it is the later as i would be able to LET the cyno stay open and then decide to close it and cut off some of the forces.

With the new grid changes I still dont think that a targeted cyno or even small aoe cyno jammer WITHOUT a delay in activation would be broken in any way.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2017-06-30 17:08:50 UTC
Xzanos wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Xzanos wrote:

Maybe it would be more helpful if you posted WHY you think they balanced the current mobile inhib to include anchor time, and what situations you see it as being useful.


The "why" is pretty obvious: It's because they're not supposed to function as an instant hotdrop prevention button. What is it that you're not grasping about this?

You're SUPPOSED to have to consider the possibility that your target is actually cyno bait. Throw a ship scanner on your hunter if it bothers you so much.


I guess i just don't agree with 1 ship being able to stop 1 other ship from lighting a cyno counts as completely eliminating the ability to hotdrop. Even if it was an AOE limiting the range to less then the current mobile inhib, say 50km sets it apart.

And i did have to consider the possibility of cyno bait which is why I brought an entire ship/player to try and prepare for it.

One of my points was weather or not it stops the cyno or stops the jump. This could provide all kinds of content creation if it is the later as i would be able to LET the cyno stay open and then decide to close it and cut off some of the forces.

With the new grid changes I still dont think that a targeted cyno or even small aoe cyno jammer WITHOUT a delay in activation would be broken in any way.


LOL I insta-locked your ship and on the next tick, prevented you from using a Cyno. GG WP, no reinforcement for you.

That's what your module would create so yes, it pretty much is a one button drop prevention.
Xzanos
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#14 - 2017-06-30 17:11:49 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:


By making it easy to block cynos you're effectively making it easy to stop fights from escalating, and that's *always* going to be advantageous to one side or the other, which means Cynos become relatively scarce as a tactic. Considering that many of the largest fights in Eve have happened because someone dropped a Cyno and the other side escalated I'm really not sure why this is at all desirable.

The argument is generally that hot-drops are OP so preventing them is desirable, but in that case you're effectively just turning something that *might* have been a one-sided fight for you to something that's almost definitely going to be a one-sided fight for whoever you just attacked. After all, the attacker is generally the one without a hot-drop on standby and gets the opportunity to pick whether or not they want to engage or not in the first place. The cyno is generally a defender's tool, at least in day to day gameplay as opposed to large deployments, so you're preventing fights from escalating and not much else. Nothing in this suggests better gameplay or a better overall experience compared to now.



It doesn't prevent escalations. If you want to fight you can still cyno in reinforcements just not directly on top of your enemy. If the fleet is tackled or committed for some other reason nothing has changed. But if you want to fight and dont want to get hotdropped you now have more opportunity to extract your forces when you see a cyno go up in the distance (if not tackled ofc)

Cynos are currently like paratroops, this is not a defensive tactic but way to avoid many of the dangers of moving your troops into a combat zone.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame
Xzanos
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#15 - 2017-06-30 17:15:11 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
LOL I insta-locked your ship and on the next tick, prevented you from using a Cyno. GG WP, no reinforcement for you.

That's what your module would create so yes, it pretty much is a one button drop prevention.



OMG you have to tackle my fleet first and cant drop your reinforcements right on my face? oh darn. Dont light cyno within "cyno scram" range of your enemy problem solved.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2017-06-30 17:21:04 UTC
Xzanos wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
LOL I insta-locked your ship and on the next tick, prevented you from using a Cyno. GG WP, no reinforcement for you.

That's what your module would create so yes, it pretty much is a one button drop prevention.



OMG you have to tackle my fleet first and cant drop your reinforcements right on my face? oh darn. Dont light cyno within "cyno scram" range of your enemy problem solved.


How about you get a counter drop fleet so you can slam a dread bomb on my 1st escalation? Oh right, you can't be arsed to put effort into anything so I can't ask you that. You'd rather get a pre-baked meal from CCP.
Xzanos
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#17 - 2017-06-30 17:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Xzanos
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Xzanos wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
LOL I insta-locked your ship and on the next tick, prevented you from using a Cyno. GG WP, no reinforcement for you.

That's what your module would create so yes, it pretty much is a one button drop prevention.



OMG you have to tackle my fleet first and cant drop your reinforcements right on my face? oh darn. Dont light cyno within "cyno scram" range of your enemy problem solved.


How about you get a counter drop fleet so you can slam a dread bomb on my 1st escalation? Oh right, you can't be arsed to put effort into anything so I can't ask you that. You'd rather get a pre-baked meal from CCP.

How about don't assume everyone is cap capable.

The more people flying ships instead of waiting for a cyno to go up the better.

Also you will definitely have a 2nd escalation and I don't think "who can cyno in more guys" is always a fun or even tactical part of gameplay.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2017-06-30 17:54:50 UTC
Xzanos wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Xzanos wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
LOL I insta-locked your ship and on the next tick, prevented you from using a Cyno. GG WP, no reinforcement for you.

That's what your module would create so yes, it pretty much is a one button drop prevention.



OMG you have to tackle my fleet first and cant drop your reinforcements right on my face? oh darn. Dont light cyno within "cyno scram" range of your enemy problem solved.


How about you get a counter drop fleet so you can slam a dread bomb on my 1st escalation? Oh right, you can't be arsed to put effort into anything so I can't ask you that. You'd rather get a pre-baked meal from CCP.

How about don't assume everyone is cap capable.

The more people flying ships instead of waiting for a cyno to go up the better


Your lack of resources is a personal problem for you to solve. You don't get a handicap because you can't drop your own caps (or, apparently, figure out how to bug out when the drop happens).

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/