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Setting that prevent misstypes on the market
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Cade Windstalker
#21 - 2017-06-28 18:07:52 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
The only risks a market character face are those that may cost them ISK in the markets and a major component of that risk is typing the wrong thing into a market screen or order. The OP Idea would completely remove that risk and somehow in a game about risk and rewards you think that is a good idea?


No, I think OP's idea would not completely remove that risk or anything like it, I think it would cause more problems than it solves.

I just also don't think your argument is particularly correct either.

Shadowlance wrote:

I've written a full answer, then deleted - because it dawned on me how to prove that topmost values are already used in all market operations: what happens when you finnaly hit OK button in an order window? Server actually DOES a check if someone is buying/selling stuff at that price OR at higher/lower price(because you can only fill topmost order then next etc) at that particular moment. If no - it creates an order if you were selling stuff or modifying order, or returns an error if you were buying.
So all you need to do - is just place my optional check in between this check and action taken.


That's being done on the server and as a separate operation where only the results are being served to your client. Your client never actually gets the values in question.

Also once again it's getting a valid order for you to fill, not the best price on the market. For example if you're setting up orders one jump out from Jita it ignores anything in 4-4 with a range of "System" so it's getting something different from what you're looking for and using a different method to do so.
Shadowlance
Damsel Industries
#22 - 2017-06-28 19:36:27 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:

That's being done on the server and as a separate operation where only the results are being served to your client. Your client never actually gets the values in question.

But i don't need the values, i only need the result if my order didn't pass this optional check. I believe this is very close to how current "average price" check is done. So it actually won't add any significant server load.
Anyways - i might be wrong, but it's up to devs how their system works and how to implement any changes. We can only make assumptions. So i hope we'll end this part of our conversation at this point ;p

Cade Windstalker wrote:
Also once again it's getting a valid order for you to fill, not the best price on the market. For example if you're setting up orders one jump out from Jita it ignores anything in 4-4 with a range of "System" so it's getting something different from what you're looking for and using a different method to do so.

And it shouldn't look for the best prices, only for valid prices. This is where it outbids the current checking system - i might set a buy/sell order for a 10x times lesser/bigger price than "average price" without a warning, if it'll be in range of topmost valid prices. And this is what you want in 90% of all cases IF you know what you're doing.

As for the newbies that might sell their stuff very cheap - they shouldn't use this setting before acknowledging how the market works. Or _maybe_ it even could be activated with current system together. I don't like it, but anyways the decision which system to use(or both) - is up to user.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#23 - 2017-06-28 22:36:48 UTC
No thanks there's already sufficient warnings, if you make a mistake it's your responsibility to learn from it.

Mistakes cost you here, by design.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#24 - 2017-06-29 14:54:06 UTC
Shadowlance wrote:
Hmm since when risk of mistype became part of the game(and since when it's the major risk)? How about risk of disconnect/desync/server crash/insult/meteor/volcanic eruption etc?

I "mis-typed" and ended up firing the death blow at a fleet mate in a battle in low sec, CCP needs to add a safety to protect me and my fleet mates from these "mis-typed" commands.
I "mis-typed" once and as a result a fleet mate that needed reps did not get them so he got blowed up real good, we need a safety to prevent us logi pilots from missing calls for reps because we "mis-typed".
I "mis-typed" once and it pushed my corp into a war dec, when what I wanted to do was simply agree to the terms offered, we need a safety to prevent these "mis-type" situations.
Don't be stupid is the response I am getting from several other EvE players sitting next to me as I type this, no one deserves to have a safety to protect them from their own stupidity, clumsiness or from not paying attention to what they are doing. You know what they are right, there is no activity in this game where a safety should protect us from our own stupidity, clumsiness, laziness or inattention to what we are doing and that includes market characters like you and me.

Shadowlance wrote:
As for your example - no it won't help there. As it won't help with any type of scam, desinformation etc. Technically it's just ties your order to current market prices, so you don't go out of that by adding/substracting few numbers from price unintentionally.

Your interpretation, I see it differently. If the safety prevents you from placing things on the market for more or less than the regional highest / lowest prices then players like my corp mate are protected because you as the seller could not place it on the market for such a ridiculously inflated price.
Shadowlance
Damsel Industries
#25 - 2017-06-29 19:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadowlance
Donnachadh wrote:

I "mis-typed" and ended up firing the death blow at a fleet mate in a battle in low sec, CCP needs to add a safety to protect me and my fleet mates from these "mis-typed" commands.
I "mis-typed" once and as a result a fleet mate that needed reps did not get them so he got blowed up real good, we need a safety to prevent us logi pilots from missing calls for reps because we "mis-typed".
I "mis-typed" once and it pushed my corp into a war dec, when what I wanted to do was simply agree to the terms offered, we need a safety to prevent these "mis-type" situations.
Don't be stupid is the response I am getting from several other EvE players sitting next to me as I type this, no one deserves to have a safety to protect them from their own stupidity, clumsiness or from not paying attention to what they are doing. You know what they are right, there is no activity in this game where a safety should protect us from our own stupidity, clumsiness, laziness or inattention to what we are doing and that includes market characters like you and me.

Don't you really see the difference between player&player and player&interface interaction? Your arguments doesn't fit this case, exept for wardec - but i believe there already is a confirmation dialogue for such actions.

Donnachadh wrote:

Your interpretation, I see it differently. If the safety prevents you from placing things on the market for more or less than the regional highest / lowest prices then players like my corp mate are protected because you as the seller could not place it on the market for such a ridiculously inflated price.

You can always create a new topic for your idea, but it has nothing in common with this one. Also your proposal is not only about safety, but about restrictions.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No thanks there's already sufficient warnings, if you make a mistake it's your responsibility to learn from it.

Mistakes cost you here, by design.

CCP thinks different. That's why safety mechanics and many inteface improvements were introduced past years.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#26 - 2017-06-30 17:53:52 UTC
Shadowlance wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No thanks there's already sufficient warnings, if you make a mistake it's your responsibility to learn from it.

Mistakes cost you here, by design.

CCP thinks different.
Do they?

Quote:
That's why safety mechanics and many interface improvements were introduced past years.
The safety switch was introduced to make life easier on newbies, and that's the only dev designed safety net in the game. Interface improvements are not safety mechanics, what you're asking for is a change to stop YOU from making silly mistakes when you fat finger your market orders, despite there already being warnings that you've chosen to ignore.

Learn from your mistakes.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Shadowlance
Damsel Industries
#27 - 2017-07-01 11:09:59 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Do they?

yes
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The safety switch was introduced to make life easier on newbies, and that's the only dev designed safety net in the game. Interface improvements are not safety mechanics, what you're asking for is a change to stop YOU from making silly mistakes when you fat finger your market orders, despite there already being warnings that you've chosen to ignore.

Learn from your mistakes.

Explain autopay bills settings introduction. According to your logic that's to "make life easier on newbies". Despite there already was "sufficient" reminder through ingame mail. Also - what is so special you could learn from a mistype?

I don't get why people complain about interface improvement that could help many people and won't affect them if they don't need it. Perhaps that's some form of human nature…
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#28 - 2017-07-02 13:26:50 UTC
Shadowlance wrote:
Don't you really see the difference between player&player and player&interface interaction? Your arguments doesn't fit this case, exept for wardec - but i believe there already is a confirmation dialogue for such actions.

You want the game to hold your hand and prevent you from making a mistake.
I want the game to hold my hand and prevent me from making a mistake.
You see in the end there is absolutely no difference between the two, we both want the game to hold our hands and prevent use from making a mistake, the activity we are involved in is essentially irrelevant.

And yes the markets of EvE are a PvP combat arena and like all PvP combat arenas you do not get to have a safety to protect you from your own actions.
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