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Ideology in EVE

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Yves Nat
Panda Express Inc.
#1 - 2017-06-22 23:36:48 UTC
I'm looking for input from everyone reading this as to their experience with/knowledge of some particular political/economic ideologies in EVE. That is, things outside the obvious free marketish/libertarianish culture that is predominant in the game.

To put in another way, there is buying and selling, there is the business-type organization of a lot of corps, there is the nihilistic gank culture. But there's also sufficient players that there must be more, and if not more, maybe enough critical mass to make something more.

For example, is there a corp that runs based on Marxist principals? Is there one based on Anarchist principals? Pacifism? Christianity? I'm really curious about this, because if these kinds of things are around, it would make EVE a hell of a lot more interesting. Can you make a corp with no shares? Would a corp work if everyone had equal shares?

If there's none of these, are enough of you interested in this to try something?

I don't bother nobody.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2 - 2017-06-22 23:44:18 UTC
I run a corp based on misanthropic principles. One man, one goal. No one else matters.

Mr Epeen Cool
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#3 - 2017-06-22 23:56:02 UTC
You are really, really...really...overthinking this game. This is just a game.
Yves Nat
Panda Express Inc.
#4 - 2017-06-23 00:02:44 UTC
That's right, and there's lots of ways to make it fun, depending on what one finds interesting. Now run along, I'm sure there's some children somewhere you need to be shushing.

I don't bother nobody.

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#5 - 2017-06-23 02:19:52 UTC
Yves Nat wrote:
...For example, is there a corp that runs based on Marxist principals? Is there one based on Anarchist principals? Pacifism? Christianity? I'm really curious about this, because if these kinds of things are around, it would make EVE a hell of a lot more interesting. ...


-isms of all kinds are shaped by the mechanics of roles and access that are already there. You could run a group informally with a set of principles on a web page somewhere, but no member would be constrained by game mechanics to obey them. Access to structures for instance, remains a game mechanic thing, not part of any ideology.
Some would toxically reduce corps and alliances to tax-farming mechanisms that supply 'content' in return. This makes many of the so-called conflicts nothing more than organised clashes for the benefit of the few miserable psychos who enjoy that sort of thing.
"Interesting" is a completely neutral term that can refer to all things, sunsets, car crashes, flowers, saintly heroes and slack-jawed, gibbering sex maniacs. It's a critical dodge, without any charge.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#6 - 2017-06-23 03:04:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Yves Nat wrote:
I'm looking for input from everyone reading this as to their experience with/knowledge of some particular political/economic ideologies in EVE. That is, things outside the obvious free marketish/libertarianish culture that is predominant in the game.

To put in another way, there is buying and selling, there is the business-type organization of a lot of corps, there is the nihilistic gank culture. But there's also sufficient players that there must be more, and if not more, maybe enough critical mass to make something more.

For example, is there a corp that runs based on Marxist principals? Is there one based on Anarchist principals? Pacifism? Christianity? I'm really curious about this, because if these kinds of things are around, it would make EVE a hell of a lot more interesting. Can you make a corp with no shares? Would a corp work if everyone had equal shares?

If there's none of these, are enough of you interested in this to try something?


Just play the game and see what kind of corp you can come up with.

But don't expect any of these to stop you from getting shot at, and don't expect other players to be nice to you about it. Eve Online is drama-filled, full of backstabbings, competition, warfare and really stupid arguments and a ton of propaganda (especially in null). Even if everyone is a capitalist, there will be no shortage of conflict in Eve Online.

Just because everyone believes in the same thing doesn't mean they are going to like each other. If my experience playing this game taught me anything, it is that no matter what side you are on, you are not on the 'right' side (or even the 'left' side), just the side you agree with and/or kinda like. And the other guys may not like your side, for various reasons, so there will always be conflict.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#7 - 2017-06-23 04:51:39 UTC
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#8 - 2017-06-23 06:56:03 UTC
Is Piratism a political/economic ideology?

There are a bunch of pacifist corps (NRDS) around, and small (often WH) corps who are basing out of a single POS basically have shared assets/ships, so could be considered communist.
Ze ni th
Doomheim
#9 - 2017-06-23 09:26:01 UTC
Yves Nat wrote:
I'm looking for input from everyone reading this as to their experience with/knowledge of some particular political/economic ideologies in EVE. That is, things outside the obvious free marketish/libertarianish culture that is predominant in the game.

To put in another way, there is buying and selling, there is the business-type organization of a lot of corps, there is the nihilistic gank culture. But there's also sufficient players that there must be more, and if not more, maybe enough critical mass to make something more.

For example, is there a corp that runs based on Marxist principals? Is there one based on Anarchist principals? Pacifism? Christianity? I'm really curious about this, because if these kinds of things are around, it would make EVE a hell of a lot more interesting. Can you make a corp with no shares? Would a corp work if everyone had equal shares?

If there's none of these, are enough of you interested in this to try something?

This game is filled with christian references. Open your eyes. The makers of this game are some sort of ultra christians. Must be.
Femma Rova
Made in Heavens
#10 - 2017-06-23 11:22:00 UTC
Ze ni th wrote:

This game is filled with christian references. Open your eyes. The makers of this game are some sort of ultra christians. Must be.


Nicely put :)
Ultra christians means, in fact, fanatics. Even worse, religious fanatics :)
So that would be why no one knows who owns Eve Online? Wikipedia has something, but not enough.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCP_Games
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novator_Partners

It's weird (or is it about a hidden agenda?!) when you come to think that everyone knows who owns Facebook, Microsoft, Apple or Google. And they are much bigger than Eve! So dear CCP, what are you hiding, what are you NOT saying?

And why would some ultra christians make Eve in Island, when this country has nothing to do with christianity?
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#11 - 2017-06-23 17:50:56 UTC
My corp which I think has been around for a decade or so is based on the simple principal of "Never Bum Optimal".

This breaks down to you get a fair return for your efforts and we aim to make a profit as a corp, Profits are returned to the corp as the corp grows.

I created a corp after briefly being in a corp where we all mined and all our efforts when the leadership to build ships that they then sold pocketing all the proceeds. Not only could you not mine and keep your own ore but if they found out you did and built your own ships you were kicked from the corp and podded. "Bum Optimal" So our rule was don't be "Bum Optimal".

Jimmy Thrace
Amarrian Enterprise Institute
#12 - 2017-06-23 18:26:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimmy Thrace
I can think of two examples:

The first is the alliance CVA. They're a roleplaying alliance based on Amarr and Amarrian religion, and they reflect this through their governance of the null sec region of Providence according to the uncommon NRDS (Not Red, Don't Shoot) doctrine. This means that they welcome strangers and unaligned people into their sovereign space, running it sort of like an extension of the Amarr Empire where everyone who follows the rules / is not affiliated with proscribed organisations can operate.

The second is Signal Cartel. These are people who act according to the ideals of friendly explorers / scouts: they don't initiate aggression, they don't engage in thefts or scams, and they try to remain neutral in conflicts. They do things like setting up supply caches in wormhole space to help anyone who might become stranded there, and I believe they do other search and rescue type stuff as well.
renwahh
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2017-06-23 19:19:09 UTC
OP get a ship and fit it with guns.

Go Shoot somebody in the face and all your ideals will go out of the window except for wanting to blow up more stuff
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#14 - 2017-06-23 19:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bing Bangboom
Yves Nat wrote:


To put in another way, there is buying and selling, there is the business-type organization of a lot of corps, there is the nihilistic gank culture.


It is completely wrong to describe the gank culture as nihilistic.

As the most effective, powerful and influential organization in highsec, the New Order of Highsec is the opposite of "rejecting all religious and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless". We have strong moral principles in the form of the Code, we believe that every player has a responsibility to be a good citizen of highsec by following the Code and we even have a Savior, James 315.

In fact, we are often accused by the true nihilists, the highsec miners, of being TOO focused on our principles. They spend their days NOT playing the game, AFKing in the minefields, all to gain ISK that they don't even spend to pvp. All the while rejecting the New Halaima Code of Conduct, specifically written to save their lives and give them purpose.

Talk about meaningless lives...

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com

Alincer Trossereides
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2017-06-23 21:31:34 UTC
There is only one ideology worth trying to implement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYvAYwpUDv8

Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand.

Yves Nat
Panda Express Inc.
#16 - 2017-06-23 23:27:59 UTC
Jimmy Thrace wrote:
I can think of two examples:

The first is the alliance CVA. They're a roleplaying alliance based on Amarr and Amarrian religion, and they reflect this through their governance of the null sec region of Providence according to the uncommon NRDS (Not Red, Don't Shoot) doctrine. This means that they welcome strangers and unaligned people into their sovereign space, running it sort of like an extension of the Amarr Empire where everyone who follows the rules / is not affiliated with proscribed organisations can operate.

The second is Signal Cartel. These are people who act according to the ideals of friendly explorers / scouts: they don't initiate aggression, they don't engage in thefts or scams, and they try to remain neutral in conflicts. They do things like setting up supply caches in wormhole space to help anyone who might become stranded there, and I believe they do other search and rescue type stuff as well.


Yes, Signal Cartel is very interesting, especially with their supply caches; belief manifested through action to benefit some other, random person. That is common with a lot of religions (and symbols without action don't amount to Christianity, either through work or grace).

Thanks for the info on CVA, I didn't realize NRDS went so deep with them, not just thoughtful but thought through.

Code seems to me just some hand-waving to make blowing **** up sound like some kind of high concept when it's the most ordinary thing in EVE. That and property. Same old same old.

The design of EVE makes blowing **** up and property the default setting, but if the ideas of the sandbox and "Content Creation" mean anything other than buzzwords, then there are other setting players can choose. Those choices interest me. Signal and CVA choose not to blow **** up (at least as the default setting). There's plenty of solo players who eschew property (by that I mean EVE's version of real estate, the thing you used to have to own in order to vote) and go the nomad root. Does anyone know if there are any nomadic player corps? Or has anyone tried a potlatch economy on a small scale?

I don't bother nobody.

Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#17 - 2017-06-24 00:02:29 UTC
Yves Nat wrote:


Code seems to me just some hand-waving to make blowing **** up sound like some kind of high concept when it's the most ordinary thing in EVE. That and property. Same old same old.



Well, I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

It's not uncommon for zealots to be accused of hypocrisy. "What if they really mean it?" is the most frightening thing a non-believer can imagine. You HAVE to reject it or take us at our word. We're out to save highsec.

So far, so good.

At least we can agree that we aren't nihilistic.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com

Ze ni th
Doomheim
#18 - 2017-06-24 07:55:24 UTC
Femma Rova wrote:
Ze ni th wrote:

This game is filled with christian references. Open your eyes. The makers of this game are some sort of ultra christians. Must be.


Nicely put :)
Ultra christians means, in fact, fanatics. Even worse, religious fanatics :)
So that would be why no one knows who owns Eve Online? Wikipedia has something, but not enough.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCP_Games
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novator_Partners

It's weird (or is it about a hidden agenda?!) when you come to think that everyone knows who owns Facebook, Microsoft, Apple or Google. And they are much bigger than Eve! So dear CCP, what are you hiding, what are you NOT saying?

And why would some ultra christians make Eve in Island, when this country has nothing to do with christianity?

EVE is from the bible at the first place. Almost 80 % of the people in Iceland are christians btw.

This game is filled with biblebs.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2017-06-24 10:29:27 UTC
Not sure iff you can call self entitlement an ideal... otherwise it is a sandbox.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Sasha Nemtsov
Meteoros
#20 - 2017-06-24 10:42:13 UTC
Yves Nat wrote:
I'm looking for input from everyone reading this as to their experience with/knowledge of some particular political/economic ideologies in EVE. That is, things outside the obvious free marketish/libertarianish culture that is predominant in the game.

To put in another way, there is buying and selling, there is the business-type organization of a lot of corps, there is the nihilistic gank culture. But there's also sufficient players that there must be more, and if not more, maybe enough critical mass to make something more.

For example, is there a corp that runs based on Marxist principals? Is there one based on Anarchist principals? Pacifism? Christianity? I'm really curious about this, because if these kinds of things are around, it would make EVE a hell of a lot more interesting. Can you make a corp with no shares? Would a corp work if everyone had equal shares?

If there's none of these, are enough of you interested in this to try something?


O, I think it's really rather straightforward. EVE Online is about greed. Greed for: Power, Attention, Money, Social Interaction, Social Isolation, etc., (I'm sure other players can extend the list) - and greed for the proof that these things have been acquired.

It doesn't matter which ideology you identify, base human drives will be in there somewhere. Don't make the mistake of creating an exception for CVA/Signal Cartel; greed for being known for the performance of righteous acts, or being associated with them, is still greed - unless the actor is indistinguishable from the rest of the player base (no Corp/Alliance ID), then it isn't public greed.

As a side note, ideologies require leaders in order to prosper. Good luck finding more than a few principled, effective and consistent leaders in EVE Online!

It has been alleged that a CCP memo from long ago contained the words 'Greed is good'. If true, it displays a very perceptive take on what really drives the game - and perhaps the game's designers, too.




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