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Player ideals, problem is most don't understand eve's limitations.

Author
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#1 - 2017-06-22 00:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Especially me, can someone post in easy nontechnical way what are the drive engines limitations and why it is difficult to implement new areas of gameplay such as planet side platform, according to Wikipedia page on EVE I read this;

'Subsequently, it was stated that, until a proven in-game reason is found for planetary access, further work on this feature will not have a high priority'

So this in itself explains a lot of why CCP is not willing to invest into this endeavor, why it sticks to it's core game and feels no need to expand or unable to expand (which is why we probably can't leave our captains quarters), but that is another topic.

I get that the core of the game should be priority, I get that, however even today as the gaming world continues to expand in amazing directions I find myself hesitant to spend more cash into the game and have been looking at others especially those games that are using VR technology, an open world platform, NPC AI interaction, and a multitudes of areas to head off too.

Without a doubt EVE is a very complex game, the stuff that goes on is daunting if you can see everything people do including myself as I work towards goals to expand, I have been busy coming up with the ISK to buy the BPO's I'm after, each over a billion a piece and I need about 10 of them, which leads me back to the "hesitant" to spend so instead I grind for the ISK, I'm nearly finished on the biggest endeavor I set out on which is great but it really makes me think about how the game could be expanded so we continue to chase the carrots we set for ourselves.

Anyway, didn't expect to write a wall of text, apologies.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#2 - 2017-06-22 00:58:41 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Especially me, can someone post in easy nontechnical way what are the drive engines limitations and why it is difficult to implement new areas of gameplay such as planet side platform, according to Wikipedia page on EVE I read this;

'Subsequently, it was stated that, until a proven in-game reason is found for planetary access, further work on this feature will not have a high priority'

So this in itself explains a lot of why CCP is not willing to invest into this endeavor, why it sticks to it's core game and feels no need to expand or unable to expand (which is why we probably can't leave our captains quarters), but that is another topic.

I get that the core of the game should be priority, I get that, however even today as the gaming world continues to expand in amazing directions I find myself hesitant to spend more cash into the game and have been looking at others especially those games that are using VR technology, an open world platform, NPC AI interaction, and a multitudes of areas to head off too.

Without a doubt EVE is a very complex game, the stuff that goes on is daunting if you can see everything people do including myself as I work towards goals to expand, I have been busy coming up with the ISK to buy the BPO's I'm after, each over a billion a piece and I need about 10 of them, which leads me back to the "hesitant" to spend so instead I grind for the ISK, I'm nearly finished on the biggest endeavor I set out on which is great but it really makes me think about how the game could be expanded so we continue to chase the carrots we set for ourselves.

Anyway, didn't expect to write a wall of text, apologies.


The space engine won't work on planets, its not actually a space simulation its more of a submarine simulation, the game uses water physics for space flight, the CQ part needs to be handled by a completely different engine and at this time requires you to completely dock your ship in order for the CQ engine to be loaded, not to mention that if you were going to land on planets then you would also need server infrastructure to load these planets and track what goes on

The main part is what would it actually BRING to the game? sure you get to walk on planets or in a station, but what purpose does it actually serve, are you going to code an entire engine just to do 1st/3rd person management of PI? or waste time running from the shop to your hangar to fit that new module you just purchased or deal with jump clones or refine things

I don't see any reason to spend the development time on these sorts of features unless they actually bring something meaningful to the game, if you want to circle jerk and /dance with a bunch of pilots in a virtual environment then just go play second life or something, CCP already have a VR game in valkyrie and EVE wouldn't benefit from spending the time to add it, hell do you remember eve voice? that feature that was supposed to end up replacing the likes of TS/vent/mumble that never got used by anyone ever? thats what the features you're asking for would be, yes some people would try it and a few die hard people would insist on using them, but the masses wouldn't bother to even enable them and i would rather not waste 20GB on station and planet models just to keep a dozen people amused :P

Its not a case of them being too difficult to add, its a case of the results being worthless and not justifying the cost in terms of licensing and manpower to build and maintain them
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2017-06-22 15:19:59 UTC
Cypherous wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
Especially me, can someone post in easy nontechnical way what are the drive engines limitations and why it is difficult to implement new areas of gameplay such as planet side platform, according to Wikipedia page on EVE I read this;

'Subsequently, it was stated that, until a proven in-game reason is found for planetary access, further work on this feature will not have a high priority'

So this in itself explains a lot of why CCP is not willing to invest into this endeavor, why it sticks to it's core game and feels no need to expand or unable to expand (which is why we probably can't leave our captains quarters), but that is another topic.

I get that the core of the game should be priority, I get that, however even today as the gaming world continues to expand in amazing directions I find myself hesitant to spend more cash into the game and have been looking at others especially those games that are using VR technology, an open world platform, NPC AI interaction, and a multitudes of areas to head off too.

Without a doubt EVE is a very complex game, the stuff that goes on is daunting if you can see everything people do including myself as I work towards goals to expand, I have been busy coming up with the ISK to buy the BPO's I'm after, each over a billion a piece and I need about 10 of them, which leads me back to the "hesitant" to spend so instead I grind for the ISK, I'm nearly finished on the biggest endeavor I set out on which is great but it really makes me think about how the game could be expanded so we continue to chase the carrots we set for ourselves.

Anyway, didn't expect to write a wall of text, apologies.


The space engine won't work on planets, its not actually a space simulation its more of a submarine simulation, the game uses water physics for space flight, the CQ part needs to be handled by a completely different engine and at this time requires you to completely dock your ship in order for the CQ engine to be loaded, not to mention that if you were going to land on planets then you would also need server infrastructure to load these planets and track what goes on

The main part is what would it actually BRING to the game? sure you get to walk on planets or in a station, but what purpose does it actually serve, are you going to code an entire engine just to do 1st/3rd person management of PI? or waste time running from the shop to your hangar to fit that new module you just purchased or deal with jump clones or refine things

I don't see any reason to spend the development time on these sorts of features unless they actually bring something meaningful to the game, if you want to circle jerk and /dance with a bunch of pilots in a virtual environment then just go play second life or something, CCP already have a VR game in valkyrie and EVE wouldn't benefit from spending the time to add it, hell do you remember eve voice? that feature that was supposed to end up replacing the likes of TS/vent/mumble that never got used by anyone ever? thats what the features you're asking for would be, yes some people would try it and a few die hard people would insist on using them, but the masses wouldn't bother to even enable them and i would rather not waste 20GB on station and planet models just to keep a dozen people amused :P

Its not a case of them being too difficult to add, its a case of the results being worthless and not justifying the cost in terms of licensing and manpower to build and maintain them


The original idea was to be able to control planets which I assume would have been expanded to all manufacturing.

Also being able to board Titans and comandeer them when they weren't a dime a dozen. A counter to super capital escalation, an insertion team to capture them mid battle. Don't wanna have a bunch of mercs eject your pod and joyride your Titan into a sun? Don't bring it to the fight.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#4 - 2017-06-22 17:11:24 UTC
Adding a new feature to a game is an investment. Not much different than any other company considering a new product or service.

You start with a business case. What will it cost to develop, operate and maintain? What benefit, likely in terms of subscription revenue, will it provide. Is it aligned with business strategy?

Step 2 is capacity planning. You will always have more good ideas than resources to implement them. They need to be prioritized.

The highest priority features that are within capacity will get approved. The others - better luck next year.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-06-22 17:20:54 UTC
We are Capsuleers, Planetary existences are below us, that is what mortals are for. We reside in the heavens.

Although in some chronicles recently there were capsuleers doing **** on planets and an old one where a capsuleer hunts down a crewman who tried to kill him by sabotaging his ship and the ship side capsule ejection system. Except for that last instance the others were state agents. And that last one I can't find the chronicle it could actually have taken place on a station.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#6 - 2017-06-22 20:22:06 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Especially me, can someone post in easy nontechnical way what are the drive engines limitations and why it is difficult to implement new areas of gameplay such as planet side platform, according to Wikipedia page on EVE I read this;

'Subsequently, it was stated that, until a proven in-game reason is found for planetary access, further work on this feature will not have a high priority'

So this in itself explains a lot of why CCP is not willing to invest into this endeavor, why it sticks to it's core game and feels no need to expand or unable to expand (which is why we probably can't leave our captains quarters), but that is another topic.

I get that the core of the game should be priority, I get that, however even today as the gaming world continues to expand in amazing directions I find myself hesitant to spend more cash into the game and have been looking at others especially those games that are using VR technology, an open world platform, NPC AI interaction, and a multitudes of areas to head off too.

Without a doubt EVE is a very complex game, the stuff that goes on is daunting if you can see everything people do including myself as I work towards goals to expand, I have been busy coming up with the ISK to buy the BPO's I'm after, each over a billion a piece and I need about 10 of them, which leads me back to the "hesitant" to spend so instead I grind for the ISK, I'm nearly finished on the biggest endeavor I set out on which is great but it really makes me think about how the game could be expanded so we continue to chase the carrots we set for ourselves.

Anyway, didn't expect to write a wall of text, apologies.




Two words: "Legacy code"

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#7 - 2017-06-23 03:08:47 UTC
Tuttomenui II wrote:
We are Capsuleers, Planetary existences are below us, that is what mortals are for. We reside in the heavens.

Although in some chronicles recently there were capsuleers doing **** on planets and an old one where a capsuleer hunts down a crewman who tried to kill him by sabotaging his ship and the ship side capsule ejection system. Except for that last instance the others were state agents. And that last one I can't find the chronicle it could actually have taken place on a station.


Barring exceptional cases, capsuleers generally have no compelling reasons to go planetside. Their business is in space. Their money comes from space activities. Their antagonists are also in space. Space is their niche, their habitat, their best-fit ecosystem.

So they will stay in space, because that's where all things concerning them happen in and where they belong.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Unit 02335400-A
Doomheim
#8 - 2017-06-23 10:38:51 UTC
Tuttomenui II wrote:
We are Capsuleers, Planetary existences are below us...

Elmund Egivand wrote:
So they will stay in space, because that's where all things concerning them happen in and where they belong.

How easily you throwed out DUST marines from your world and made 'em forgotten. Or, probably, you never really consider 'em as residents of cluster? Someone equal to your elite pride?
Keno Skir
#9 - 2017-06-23 11:46:34 UTC
Unit 02335400-A wrote:
Tuttomenui II wrote:
We are Capsuleers, Planetary existences are below us...

Elmund Egivand wrote:
So they will stay in space, because that's where all things concerning them happen in and where they belong.

How easily you throwed out DUST marines from your world and made 'em forgotten. Or, probably, you never really consider 'em as residents of cluster? Someone equal to your elite pride?


They weren't equal, DUST bunnies were a travesty. Most of us could afford to literally buy a DUST Bunny and his entire family to dance in our quarters if it pleased us, giggling as we shock him to make him dance faster. The only people who really believed those dirt-clones were proper capsuleers were themselves (until we actual capsuleers vaporized them for fun).

When a DUST bunny can come shoot at ME for saying mean things i will consider him an equal, but of course he'll have to become a proper capsuleer for that won't he? Pirate
Axure Abbacus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2017-06-23 12:07:29 UTC
Dust Clones would have made exceptional Followers but never equals. They could never match the Might of a Capsuleer in command of a corsair let alone a Titan.

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.

Unit 02335400-A
Doomheim
#11 - 2017-06-23 12:20:29 UTC
Arrogance and ignorance. We like it. But that's why capsuleers are locked in their quarters: mad beasts should be kept in cages.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#12 - 2017-06-23 15:44:36 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
Especially me, can someone post in easy nontechnical way what are the drive engines limitations and why it is difficult to implement new areas of gameplay such as planet side platform, according to Wikipedia page on EVE I read this;

'Subsequently, it was stated that, until a proven in-game reason is found for planetary access, further work on this feature will not have a high priority'

So this in itself explains a lot of why CCP is not willing to invest into this endeavor, why it sticks to it's core game and feels no need to expand or unable to expand (which is why we probably can't leave our captains quarters), but that is another topic.

I get that the core of the game should be priority, I get that, however even today as the gaming world continues to expand in amazing directions I find myself hesitant to spend more cash into the game and have been looking at others especially those games that are using VR technology, an open world platform, NPC AI interaction, and a multitudes of areas to head off too.

Without a doubt EVE is a very complex game, the stuff that goes on is daunting if you can see everything people do including myself as I work towards goals to expand, I have been busy coming up with the ISK to buy the BPO's I'm after, each over a billion a piece and I need about 10 of them, which leads me back to the "hesitant" to spend so instead I grind for the ISK, I'm nearly finished on the biggest endeavor I set out on which is great but it really makes me think about how the game could be expanded so we continue to chase the carrots we set for ourselves.

Anyway, didn't expect to write a wall of text, apologies.




Two words: "Legacy code"



Looked this up, wow, so this code is basically like cars from the 1970's compared to the cars of today, you can still add additional features but a pinto is still a pinto at the end of the day.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2017-06-23 18:34:59 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:



Looked this up, wow, so this code is basically like cars from the 1970's compared to the cars of today, you can still add additional features but a pinto is still a pinto at the end of the day.


I have a 1978 Mercury Bobcat (Pretty much a Ford Pinto) and I think it has potential, Pinto got a bad wrap from media outlets over reacting because a few of them blew up. My point, don't disparage the pinto or I might take offense and have to hunt you down and pod you. P Or get podded myself hehehe.
Alincer Trossereides
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-06-23 22:07:57 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
Especially me, can someone post in easy nontechnical way what are the drive engines limitations and why it is difficult to implement new areas of gameplay such as planet side platform, according to Wikipedia page on EVE I read this;

'Subsequently, it was stated that, until a proven in-game reason is found for planetary access, further work on this feature will not have a high priority'

So this in itself explains a lot of why CCP is not willing to invest into this endeavor, why it sticks to it's core game and feels no need to expand or unable to expand (which is why we probably can't leave our captains quarters), but that is another topic.

I get that the core of the game should be priority, I get that, however even today as the gaming world continues to expand in amazing directions I find myself hesitant to spend more cash into the game and have been looking at others especially those games that are using VR technology, an open world platform, NPC AI interaction, and a multitudes of areas to head off too.

Without a doubt EVE is a very complex game, the stuff that goes on is daunting if you can see everything people do including myself as I work towards goals to expand, I have been busy coming up with the ISK to buy the BPO's I'm after, each over a billion a piece and I need about 10 of them, which leads me back to the "hesitant" to spend so instead I grind for the ISK, I'm nearly finished on the biggest endeavor I set out on which is great but it really makes me think about how the game could be expanded so we continue to chase the carrots we set for ourselves.

Anyway, didn't expect to write a wall of text, apologies.




Two words: "Legacy code"



Looked this up, wow, so this code is basically like cars from the 1970's compared to the cars of today, you can still add additional features but a pinto is still a pinto at the end of the day.


And a '68 Mustang is still a '68 Mustang.

Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#15 - 2017-06-23 23:08:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Programmers are people and you need to pay them money. They can only do so much, so hiring more programmers costs more money.

Would you be willing to pay $30/mo for this game? If CCP had more money they could hire more people to design, write, program, and test new features.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#16 - 2017-06-23 23:19:12 UTC
Tuttomenui II wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:



Looked this up, wow, so this code is basically like cars from the 1970's compared to the cars of today, you can still add additional features but a pinto is still a pinto at the end of the day.


I have a 1978 Mercury Bobcat (Pretty much a Ford Pinto) and I think it has potential, Pinto got a bad wrap from media outlets over reacting because a few of them blew up. My point, don't disparage the pinto or I might take offense and have to hunt you down and pod you. P Or get podded myself hehehe.


Anybody who's looked my killboard...chuckled, if this was ED I'd still be at 'harmless'Big smile
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#17 - 2017-06-23 23:21:19 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Programmers are people and you need to pay them money. They can only do so much, so hiring more programmers costs more money.

Would you be willing to pay $30/mo for this game? If CCP had more money they could hire more people to design, write, program, and test new features.


LolLolLol this is great, yes I already pay $30 bucks for 2 omega and zero for 2 alphas, + the skins I buy on occasion.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#18 - 2017-06-23 23:29:48 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
LolLolLol this is great, yes I already pay $30 bucks for 2 omega and zero for 2 alphas, + the skins I buy on occasion.


Don't be pedantic. You know what I meant. Yes/no question. Are you willing to pay more per month to get new features?
Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#19 - 2017-06-24 07:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkoth 24
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Don't be pedantic. You know what I meant. Yes/no question. Are you willing to pay more per month to get new features?

I am ready to pay more for EvE. But i won't. Because this is not a kickstarter, and people, who give money, have no control on how CCP spend it. If "new features" will turn into new SKINs, new beacon-events and new "let's-break-something-that-works" changes - i'll feel myself pretty dumb. Even more than usual, i mean.
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#20 - 2017-06-24 10:45:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Unit 02335400-A wrote:

Elmund Egivand wrote:
So they will stay in space, because that's where all things concerning them happen in and where they belong.

How easily you throwed out DUST marines from your world and made 'em forgotten. Or, probably, you never really consider 'em as residents of cluster? Someone equal to your elite pride?


Are you quoting me out of context?

The full quote you should be using is as such:

Elmund Egivand wrote:
Barring exceptional cases, capsuleers generally have no compelling reasons to go planetside. Their business is in space. Their money comes from space activities. Their antagonists are also in space. Space is their niche, their habitat, their best-fit ecosystem.

So they will stay in space, because that's where all things concerning them happen in and where they belong.


A capsuleer has as much reason to be on planetside as a fish has as much reason to be on Mount Himalaya. In other words, hardly any good reasons at all. Money-making? We make more money in space! Kill a hated foe? He is in space! Conquest? We conquer entire solar systems with fleets of spaceship! Bars and night-life? Space stations!

Again, no compelling reason to be planetside.

The relationship between capsuleers and DUSTers had always been those of Mr. Johnson and outside-the-grid mercenaries. We pay them lots of money to take care of our business involving boots and shootouts. There's never been a time the DUSTers pay US money to do **** for them. Orbital bombardment's more of a voluntary thing, and they could handle it just fine via their Warbarges.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

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