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Drama?
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Yves Nat
Panda Express Inc.
#1 - 2017-06-21 12:29:43 UTC
A philosophical question here, for discussion—I'm curious about other people's views on this:

What exactly is "Content Creation" in EVE supposed to be?

I instinctively cringe from buzzwords, and those are buzzwords, but of course I understand that EVE is player created to a great extent. But what exactly is this content that players create, interacting with each other (PVE etc are other topics)?

Tell me if I'm wrong, or if I'm stupidly missing something, but is "Content Creation" anything other than PVP? And if it's only PVP, what is the content other than quantity? A fight is a fight, numbers may vary, but how many different types of fight (content) can there be?

People enjoy PVP, I dig that, and that's totally cool. But how is PVP content something other than an endless cycle of the same thing? Other than quantity, it seems that's pretty limited. Am I missing something? Am I the only one who thinks this?

I don't bother nobody.
Yang Aurilen
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#2 - 2017-06-21 12:50:36 UTC
Content Creation™ is another term for Human Interaction aka people interacting with other people aka society.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Yourmoney Mywallet
Doomheim
#3 - 2017-06-21 12:54:51 UTC
So... how much?
Felyx Ravencroft
#4 - 2017-06-21 12:57:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Felyx Ravencroft
Interesting that you post this very much at the same time as I was pondering the same thing. For decades, I've been in the media and publishing industry, and so "content" is a term that has been very relevant to me for a long time. Personally, i think the term is being misappropriated and misused in this context.

In the very loosest sense, the "contents" of something are whatever is contained therein, but this is NOT precisely the same thing as "content", a subtlety that seems to be missed by many. Let's start with a non-interactive medium, such as print or Web-zines: in those cases, content is ENTIRELY provided by the publisher (naturally, as it's a unidirectional medium), but it can also be looked at as "that which the reader/audience is buying or visiting for". Hence, the articles. The advertising is also contained within the publication, but is not technically a part of the content, it is the enabler that pays for the creation and provision of the content (cover prices have seldom paid for more than the physical printing aspect of a publication, and in some cases not even that - advertising pays the bulk of the running and production costs.) Of course, here's one possible exception: something like a classifieds magazine such as Auto Trader is ALL ABOUT the contained adverts - in that case, those adverts are the content (although additional advertising not within the classified format may be something of a grey area - readers of the magazine are not necessarily seeking those ads, but on the other hand they fit the overall theme.)

In the case of an interactive medium (such as games) things may be seen differently. However, traditionally the content is still provided by the developer of the game, and forms the foundation and medium for player actions and interactions. The way I see it (please note, this is NOT some official definition, but merely my own perception), in EVE the content would be the ships, the solar systems, the weapons, the game mechanics, the market infrastructure, the agents, the scraps of story - all the stuff that the players' activities require in order to take place. Content is NOT (in my opinion) created by players - that seems to me like nothing more than people trying to enhance their own status (self-aggrandizement, essentially), or as players making excuses for aggressive or destructive actions that disrupt other players' game experience on the pretext of "creating content." Now, one might say "oh, you say that ships are content, but players have manufactured those" - well, yes and no, but mainly "no". Ships are built to result in a ship whose specs and attributes have been designed by CCP; they are built using minerals that were extracted by players - from an environment that is entirely provided by CCP. The important thing here is that the end result is something that is there from the start - an item that is described and illustrated in the ship tree.

However, another, looser way to look at content is as "whatever is in a medium that the audience is visiting for" - in this case, it's a very subjective thing: what qualified for one person doesn't necessarily qualify for another - consequently, lacking unversal applicability, this really fails as an adequate definition.

Anyway, that's my 2c deposited. Big smile I know that many people will disagree *shrug*
Morey Max
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-06-21 13:09:41 UTC
Content creation in eve is, to some extent, player driven. And we cannot ignore that CCP is considerably indolent when it comes to creating new content. Example, rouge swarm thingy. so thrilling you nowShocked
Reading ppl whine about fighter nerf was more fun tbh. I guess this is how CCP creates content.

Each PVP action is unique in its essence, so it can be regarded as a new content. Doing f1 monkeying can be frustrating sometimes, but I personally never get tried of healthy PVP.
Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
#6 - 2017-06-21 13:16:15 UTC
Eve players get their vocabulary from Reddit where every discussion is a race to sound smarter and more pretentious than the previous guy, so you'll notice lots of useless buzzwords and meaningless jargon in the eve vocabulary as a result. It's not rocket science it's just monkey see monkey do.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#7 - 2017-06-21 13:41:17 UTC
Yves Nat wrote:
A philosophical question here, for discussion—I'm curious about other people's views on this:

What exactly is "Content Creation" in EVE supposed to be?

I instinctively cringe from buzzwords, and those are buzzwords, but of course I understand that EVE is player created to a great extent. But what exactly is this content that players create, interacting with each other (PVE etc are other topics)?

Tell me if I'm wrong, or if I'm stupidly missing something, but is "Content Creation" anything other than PVP? And if it's only PVP, what is the content other than quantity? A fight is a fight, numbers may vary, but how many different types of fight (content) can there be?

People enjoy PVP, I dig that, and that's totally cool. But how is PVP content something other than an endless cycle of the same thing? Other than quantity, it seems that's pretty limited. Am I missing something? Am I the only one who thinks this?

Content creation is a loose term that refers to making something, anything happen in the shared sandbox that is New Eden. Eve Online is a player-driven sandbox game where we are suppose to provide the narrative to the story, not CCP, whose job it is to provide a pretty backdrop and the game mechanics for us to interact and fill the universe with content.

Content does not equal PvP. Often it does, or major elements of it does, but there is plenty of content creation that doesn't primarily revolve around PvP. Signal Cartel would be an example. They have constructed a mission, an organization to interact with the rest of the sandbox and create content for themselves, and the other pilots in New Eden. Many other groups too have a shared vision and goal to build something, that is create content in the sandbox in a way that isn't destructive. All that is needed is to provide some reason (AKA content) to do stuff in the sandbox other than mindlessly accumulate resources for no greater purpose.

Further just because something is PvP doesn't mean it is content, or at least very interesting content. Engaging in consensual duels at the sun with your friends, or going on a drunken roam in a disposable ship isn't content creation. Yes, you are shooting someone and engaging in PvP, but it isn't really much content. It is essentially just training/sparring - masturbation in other words. However, picking a fight with another group or player over some objective is usually content. You are creating drama and conflict which is by its very nature content creation.

Content is what fuels people to log in and do stuff. Creating such content usually involves shooting other players in some way as that is the central idea of the game, but making the assets needed for this war is also an important side-effect of content creation. The real interesting part of Eve that I believe attracts and keeps the most players is the amazing player-driven economy which only exists because of the constant destruction created by the player-made narratives that involve them shooting each other. If wars weren't raging, no one would want to buy the fruits of your industry or your exploration/missioning or your mining and you would have no reason to log in.

Eve Online is suppose to be about player-driven stories, not a version of FarmVille set in space where you try to get your wallet balance the highest to get a high score and win, or a repetitive arena spaceship shooter where you face equally match opponents and respawn after each loss. Content creation is anything that makes or furthers such stories. The PvP space battles are a key part but not the content themselves. It is the wars that give meaning to those battles that is the content and is what keep people logging in.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Yves Nat
Panda Express Inc.
#8 - 2017-06-21 13:59:44 UTC
Felyx Ravencroft wrote:


In the case of an interactive medium (such as games) things may be seen differently. However, traditionally the content is still provided by the developer of the game, and forms the foundation and medium for player actions and interactions. The way I see it (please note, this is NOT some official definition, but merely my own perception), in EVE the content would be the ships, the solar systems, the weapons, the game mechanics, the market infrastructure, the agents, the scraps of story - all the stuff that the players' activities require in order to take place. Content is NOT (in my opinion) created by players - that seems to me like nothing more than people trying to enhance their own status (self-aggrandizement, essentially), or as players making excuses for aggressive or destructive actions that disrupt other players' game experience on the pretext of "creating content." Now, one might say "oh, you say that ships are content, but players have manufactured those" - well, yes and no, but mainly "no". Ships are built to result in a ship whose specs and attributes have been designed by CCP; they are built using minerals that were extracted by players - from an environment that is entirely provided by CCP. The important thing here is that the end result is something that is there from the start - an item that is described and illustrated in the ship tree.

However, another, looser way to look at content is as "whatever is in a medium that the audience is visiting for" - in this case, it's a very subjective thing: what qualified for one person doesn't necessarily qualify for another - consequently, lacking unversal applicability, this really fails as an adequate definition.

Anyway, that's my 2c deposited. Big smile I know that many people will disagree *shrug*


This is an insightful and subtle view that gets at the things that have been itching me: the limits on players creating anything new.

That dovetails with the "Content Creation" as, in practice, nothing more than fights or the ways in which to pick them; e.g. player X steals from a can, thereby creating conflict, a/k/a "Content." (And if Content Creation included things like o7 in local, PVP corps would not be looking for "Content Creators" and I would be seeing "Content Creation" videos on YouTube of things other than PVP conflict.)

For quite a while I've been doing things in EVE and wishing that there would be real surprises:


  • Design and build new modules, and thanks for the excellent suggestion of designing original ships, that would be fascinating
  • Exploration that leads to some real surprises; brand new types of sites, brand new stellar bodies/anomalies with valuable things inside
  • A possible pathway to Jove space
  • More "Careers"?


That's just a few.

Now I understand that this is a piece of software, and it has to have constraints. Perhaps designing in true player creation is just too technically difficult, or even dangerous. But this is a science fiction game at the core, emphasis on fiction, and true player created content means a personal narrative of some kind, so maybe CCP needs to hire some writers to think up things that can be implemented in the software.

I don't bother nobody.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2017-06-21 14:39:38 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:

Content creation is a loose term that refers to making something, anything happen in the shared sandbox that is New Eden. Eve Online is a player-driven sandbox game where we are suppose to provide the narrative to the story, not CCP, whose job it is to provide a pretty backdrop and the game mechanics for us to interact and fill the universe with content.


Perfectly well said.

Content creation is when a person communicates with others and says "lets go roam". Or it's when someone starts a mining fleet and people mine (aka interact with the game) while interacting with each other. Starting an incursion fleet , same idea.

When i'm ratting in null sec and some guy comes into my site and shoots me or lights a cyno and brings in friends (for me and my friends to kill), that's content too. People doing market pvp, that's content too. People exploring and delivering items to a market that other players will put on their ship to go do things, that's content to me as well.

"Content" in EVE is like the Force in Star Wars, it underlies everything while being not all that obvious sometimes.

I think that people who understand the EVE/sandbox idea of content are generally happy in the game, whereas people who use the themepark idea of content (ie "developers make stuff for me to do, i do it, then the developers make more stuff to do etc etc) tend to be rather unhappy with EVE.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#10 - 2017-06-21 16:05:04 UTC
Largely I've found "content creation" to be the term asshat gankers like to use to excuse poor behavior, That said I will be the first to admit that in the context of Eve being an asshat and poor behavior by normal societal standards are absolutely intended. In fact core to the Eve experience. The game designed to allow you to shoot strangers in the face (in space).

I would love to see what I would consider REAL content creation because the game does create a rich environment for it.

Things I consider to be true (not lazy ganking under that label) content creation which have happened:


  • R v B
  • Economic manipulation, for example controlling a moon resource to affect market prices
  • Major NULL wars where major factors were affected by alliance politics (leader defection for example)
  • CSM drama
  • Any corp that has set up an active framework for its members (same for alliances)
  • "Burn Jita" style trade blockades
  • Organized "shoot the monument" protests
  • Code probably is legitimate content creation as it seems to be organized. They are basically a player driven risk factor for other players




Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#11 - 2017-06-21 16:27:56 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Content Creation™ is another term for Human Interaction aka people interacting with other people aka society.



This is dubious at best As people in this game don't treat other people very well so the "interaction" tends to be one way, PVE is a big part of eve and generally tends to be a a facilitator of others doing things with others by way of the market, PVP only creates content when people have skirmishes and fleet wars, single man roams is kind of the bastage creator because that's only 1 way and only if they buy instead of build.

This isn't the end all be all, just the way I see it.