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Navy/Fleet Battleships: Role Bonus Touch-Up and 3rd Class Please!

Author
J A Aloysiusz
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#1 - 2017-06-19 09:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: J A Aloysiusz
I think the last set of Navy/Fleet Battlecruisers went over well, don't you?

With Pirate Battleships spiking in price, Machariel, Nightmare, Rattlesnake fleets get more expensive to field!
A NEW NICHE OPENS!

We don't too hard on the turf of the other navy battleships though. And the truth is the whole class of navy/fleet battleships could use a little love, don't you think?

The 25% blanket role bonus to optimal + faloff seemed to work well as a modest niche-creator for the battlecruiser class ships, which were struggling relative to other ships and relative to their performance in previous years. Using moderate role bonuses instead of trying to fine tune base stats and dps bonuses can be an attractive option to help create ship-specific or class-specific niches. The idea is that you want to open up new possibilities that don't compete too much with the roles of other similar ship classes.

The Armageddon Navy, Typhoon Fleet, Scorpion Navy, and Dominix Navy are all variants of vanilla utility/support ships, and could be given cool role bonuses that fill a similar role.

Example Support Role Bonuses:
Geddon Navy - 25% Bonus to Energy Neutralizer and Nosferatu Strength
Phoon Fleet - 75% Reduction to Stasis Grappler Heat Damage
Scorp Navy - 100% Reduction to Target Spectrum Breaker Scan Resolution Penalty
Domi Navy - 75% Bonus to Structure Maintenance Bot Repair Rate

The Tempest Fleet Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Raven Navy Issue, and Apocalypse Navy Issue all have a strong combination of offensive capabilities and mobility, and should receive a role bonus that complements this role.

I suggest:
Tempest Fleet - 50% Reduction to MWD Signature Radius Bloom
Megathron Navy - 25% Bonus to MWD Speed Boost
Raven Navy - MWD *Reduces* Ship Mass by 50%
Apocalypse Navy - 25% Bonus to AB Speed Boost

And that leads us to the THIRD AND FINAL role bonuses!

It’s about time we finish off the navy battleship class, amirite?

These ships would be slow, with poor maneuverability. Signature radius like the broad side of a barn, drone bay nothing to die for. All of them would be able to fit the largest size long range weapons. They might be good at, I dunno, sustained damage in structure warfare and large fleet battles?

Rokh Navy Issue
Caldari Battleship Skill Level: 10% Large Hybrid Turret Optimal Range
Caldari Battleship Skill Level: 4% Shield Resistance
Role Bonus: 50% Reduction to MJD Cooldown
8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
7 Mid Slots
5 Low Slots

Maelstrom Fleet Issue
Minmatar Battleship Skill Level: 5% Large Projectile Turret Rate of Fire
Minmatar Battleship Skill Level: 7.5% Large Projectile Turret Faloff
Role Bonus: 25% Reduction to MJD Cooldown and Cycle Time

8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
7 Mid Slots
5 Low Slots

Hyperion Navy Issue
Gallente Battleship Skill Level: 5% Large Hybrid Turret Damage
Gallente Battleship Skill Level: 7.5% Large Hybrid Turret Tracking
Role Bonus: 25% Reduction to MJD Cooldown and Cycle Time
8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
4 Mid Slots
8 Low Slots


Abaddon Navy Issue
Amarr Battleship Skill Level: 5% Armor Hitpoints
Amarr Battleship Skill Level: 4% Armor Resistance
Role Bonus: 50% Reduction to MJD Cooldown
8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
5 Mid Slots
7 Low Slots

I fantasize about these things.
Atomeon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-06-19 09:24:02 UTC
No utility highs? They are all PvE Bonused?
Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#3 - 2017-06-19 10:48:53 UTC
Atomeon wrote:
No utility highs? They are all PvE Bonused?


there all high slot heavy, you could flex one in but it will change the dynamic of it.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#4 - 2017-06-19 11:15:21 UTC
Right now, Navy and Pirate battleships are roughly the same price on Eve Central - both are roughly 3 times the cost of a T1 battleship. I think this is reasonable for the Navy hulls and still too low for the pirate hulls - they continue to offer superior price/performance.

Make the navy ships too powerful and there is no reason to fly the normal T1 ships. The navy ships are substantially better than T1, commensurate with their cost, and I expect them to become more popular as the surplus supply of pirate hulls/BPCs is soaked up and the price climbs.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#5 - 2017-06-19 12:43:52 UTC
Does OP know the price spike of those is an intended move from CCP when the change will go live.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2017-06-19 13:37:44 UTC
J A Aloysiusz wrote:


The 25% blanket role bonus to optimal + faloff seemed to work well for the navy/fleet battlecruisers. I think this trend of giving navy/fleet ships moderate role bonuses on top of their regular bonuses seems like a good idea. Role bonuses can help ships fill their intended role more efficiently.



The projection role bonus was given to all non-T2 BC hulls, navy and vanilla.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2017-06-19 13:53:06 UTC
J A Aloysiusz wrote:


These ships would be slow, with poor maneuverability. Signature radius like the broad side of a barn, drone bay nothing to die for. All of them would be able to fit the largest size long range weapons. They might be good at, I dunno, sustained damage in structure wars and fleet battles?

Rokh Navy Issue
Caldari Battleship Skill Level: 10% Large Hybrid Turret Optimal Range
Caldari Battleship Skill Level: 4% Shield Resistance
Role Bonus: 50% Reduction to MJD Cooldown
8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
7 Mid Slots
5 Low Slots

Maelstrom Fleet Issue
Minmatar Battleship Skill Level: 5% Large Projectile Turret Rate of Fire
Minmatar Battleship Skill Level: 7.5% Large Projectile Turret Faloff
Role Bonus: 25% Reduction to MJD Cooldown and Cycle Time

8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
7 Mid Slots
5 Low Slots

Hyperion Navy Issue
Gallente Battleship Skill Level: 5% Large Hybrid Turret Damage
Gallente Battleship Skill Level: 7.5% Large Hybrid Turret Tracking
Role Bonus: 25% Reduction to MJD Cooldown and Cycle Time
8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
4 Mid Slots
8 Low Slots


Abaddon Navy Issue
Amarr Battleship Skill Level: 5% Armor Hitpoints
Amarr Battleship Skill Level: 4% Armor Resistance
Role Bonus: 50% Reduction to MJD Cooldown
8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
5 Mid Slots
7 Low Slots

I fantasize about these things.


Can't wait to fly Arty Abaddon Navy Issue.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-06-19 14:36:08 UTC
Pirate hulls are supposed to be better than navy hulls. That's why CCP is driving up the cost to where the players said the price of pirate hulls should be.

If you make the navy hulls better, you just go back to depreciating the value of the pirate hulls.

I stand to make a killing on these changes, I had a number of pirate battleships, and I've sold off several already for 70% profit off their purchase price (firesales ftw!).
J A Aloysiusz
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#9 - 2017-06-19 17:54:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
J A Aloysiusz wrote:


The 25% blanket role bonus to optimal + faloff seemed to work well for the navy/fleet battlecruisers. I think this trend of giving navy/fleet ships moderate role bonuses on top of their regular bonuses seems like a good idea. Role bonuses can help ships fill their intended role more efficiently.



The projection role bonus was given to all non-T2 BC hulls, navy and vanilla.


Hmm, that's true. It was a functional blanket buff to a group of ships that were struggling compared to their relative strength in previous years, though, and that could certainly be argued for in the case of the existing navy battleships. I'll edit that. Thanks
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2017-06-19 17:58:07 UTC
Nah the Abaddon Navy ones should all get a role bonus to grappler range.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#11 - 2017-06-19 20:34:20 UTC
The Geddon navy is specifically NOT a neut platform as requested by the player base during the initial changes to the Geddon.
J A Aloysiusz
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#12 - 2017-06-19 20:52:18 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The Geddon navy is specifically NOT a neut platform as requested by the player base during the initial changes to the Geddon.


No reason it has to be. What other role bonus might augment its utility playstyle?
Cindy the Sewer
Radiation Sickness
#13 - 2017-06-21 20:05:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cindy the Sewer
J A Aloysiusz wrote:


The 25% blanket role bonus to optimal + faloff seemed to work well as a modest niche-creator for the battlecruiser class ships, which were struggling relative to other ships and relative to their performance in previous years. Using moderate role bonuses instead of trying to fine tune base stats and dps bonuses can be an attractive option to help create ship-specific or class-specific niches. The idea is that you want to open up new possibilities that don't compete too much with the roles of other similar ship classes.

The Armageddon Navy, Typhoon Fleet, Scorpion Navy, and Dominix Navy are all variants of vanilla utility/support ships, and could be given cool role bonuses that fill a similar role.

Example Support Role Bonuses:
Geddon Navy - 25% Bonus to Energy Neutralizer and Nosferatu Strength
Phoon Fleet - 75% Reduction to Stasis Grappler Heat Damage
Scorp Navy - 100% Reduction to Target Spectrum Breaker Scan Resolution Penalty
Domi Navy - 75% Bonus to Structure Maintenance Bot Repair Rate

The Tempest Fleet Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Raven Navy Issue, and Apocalypse Navy Issue all have a strong combination of offensive capabilities and mobility, and should receive a role bonus that complements this role.

I suggest:
Tempest Fleet - 50% Reduction to MWD Signature Radius Bloom
Megathron Navy - 25% Bonus to MWD Speed Boost
Raven Navy - MWD *Reduces* Ship Mass by 50%
Apocalypse Navy - 25% Bonus to AB Speed Boost

And that leads us to the THIRD AND FINAL role bonuses!

It’s about time we finish off the navy battleship class, amirite?

These ships would be slow, with poor maneuverability. Signature radius like the broad side of a barn, drone bay nothing to die for. All of them would be able to fit the largest size long range weapons. They might be good at, I dunno, sustained damage in structure warfare and large fleet battles?

Rokh Navy Issue
Caldari Battleship Skill Level: 10% Large Hybrid Turret Optimal Range
Caldari Battleship Skill Level: 4% Shield Resistance
Role Bonus: 50% Reduction to MJD Cooldown
8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
7 Mid Slots
5 Low Slots

Maelstrom Fleet Issue
Minmatar Battleship Skill Level: 5% Large Projectile Turret Rate of Fire
Minmatar Battleship Skill Level: 7.5% Large Projectile Turret Faloff
Role Bonus: 25% Reduction to MJD Cooldown and Cycle Time

8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
7 Mid Slots
5 Low Slots

Hyperion Navy Issue
Gallente Battleship Skill Level: 5% Large Hybrid Turret Damage
Gallente Battleship Skill Level: 7.5% Large Hybrid Turret Tracking
Role Bonus: 25% Reduction to MJD Cooldown and Cycle Time
8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
4 Mid Slots
8 Low Slots


Abaddon Navy Issue
Amarr Battleship Skill Level: 5% Armor Hitpoints
Amarr Battleship Skill Level: 4% Armor Resistance
Role Bonus: 50% Reduction to MJD Cooldown
8 High Slots – 8 Turret Slots
5 Mid Slots
7 Low Slots



1) You start off talking about BCs and to be honest i have no idea where you are going with that because you list nothing but battleships afterwards.

2) Ive always seen the navy versions of battleships as doing just the opposite of what you want which is to dump their support roll in favor of a more generalized role and making them support ships also will reduce diversity not increase it.

3) I personally would rather their be fewer bonuses to prop mods since it makes such a huge difference in how a ship plays in game. A 25% damage bonus certainly effects game play but sig bloom and whether you can still use your prop mod to burn away from being pointed or not is a huge factor in both pvp and pve (since no bonus is 'free' if i get a Micro prop mod bonus i must lose out on the ship someplace else to balance the ship and if im using an afterburner this hurts me twice, once because im not using a bonus and again because some other aspect of the ship gets nerfed).

4) There are already ships bonused for jump drives and having more and more ships able to pop around space with little in the way of effective cooldowns is not a step forward for EVE.

5) finishing off the navy battleship lineup is fine but lets let CCP decide what they should ultimately be designed to do.

Searing destruction of your viewpoint is incoming and no you won't win the discussion or even walk away with anything resembling a win, so bail out early or suffer repeated embarrassments. You have been warned.

Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-06-22 00:16:59 UTC
I think the only thing that's really missing from the battleship line is the logistics role. Large, slow, big tank and really long remote rep range.
We have Nestor and Orca, I know. But the Nestor is barely usable as a logi, t1 cruisers have better range and rep amount. And I don't think too many people would bring an Orca to a fleet vs fleet battle, just to be remote shield boosters.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.

Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2017-06-23 20:11:54 UTC
Hmm... what about a logistics marauder, much like a FAX? It would be a T2 BS. These thoughts are all totally off-the-cuff, I've not thought them through AT ALL.

Bastion module increases reps AND cap usage of remote assistance by 100%, inversely scaling to the time remaining down to 0% when the module cycle ends.

This would promote tactical choice of when to activate bastion, much like a FAX

Bastion module would allow 25% of reps through to marauders (bastion active)

This COULD promote marauders as ships of the line, given that they can fit a rather obscene buffer (playing in pyfa for 5 minutes I broke 350k ehp and I'm positive that more can be had). Defender launchers solves the issue of bombing runs given that marauders have like 3 utility high slots. Their natural counter would of course be an enemy fleet with enough alpha. This would admittedly be an extraordinarily expensive fleet doctrine.

Mixing both dps and logistics marauders in with regular battleship fleets would provide interesting tactical opportunities. Logi cruisers would handle the bulk of the triage, whilst the logi marauders are ready to drop the big reps on whatever needs it the most.

Active bastion blocks cap boosters and receiving remote assistance

This would keep their cap dreadfully unstable, forcing them to make tactical choices about how often they bastion.