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FW Question - bypassing faction police response possible?

Author
Gustav Mannfred
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-05-06 15:58:24 UTC
o7

I just went to Jita and saw lots of artytornados. All of them were in the same alliance. After checking info, I noticed they were in Gallente FW. As Gallente FW is the enemy of Caldari FW, the faction police should have engaged them, but there was just... nothing. not even a message, that an enemy player entered caldari space.

Is there a way to avoid police response when entering enemy space after joining FW?

http://imgur.com/a/GNvV4

i'm REALY miss the old stuff. 

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183

Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-05-06 20:43:23 UTC
Faction police response to FW targets is very light and easily tanked and avoided by bouncing around or just out running them with speed fits.
Code Redd
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-05-06 23:29:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Code Redd
there are several ways they can do this.

one is to warp to a spot in jita, on grid with the station, and burn into range of the station, outrunning the npc police. This used to be the old method, that would give you a lot of time before they caught up to where you were and made you move.

second is that they're in arty tornadoes for sure, but it takes 10 seconds in jita for the police to arrive, so they bounce from spot to spot, every 10 seconds or so. It resets the timer and the spawn when you go into warp. Even when you're caught, you are not scrammed. a nado can get into warp in about 5 seconds, so, land, align, wait till the frig agresses, and warp to a new tac.

third is that they know what i know, how much to tank for the npcs. They're using tornadoes so it doesnt matter if they're capped out. SO, likley what they're doing is using alts to run logi for them, and their lows or rigs have kin/therm tanks.

i vote for #3. those nestors are theirs.

I can fit several ships to survive the police just fine, tengu is the easiest, a few HACs can too.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2017-05-06 23:41:08 UTC
There was some trick which allowed people to just sit in enemy high-sec while being 'attacked by NPC'. At the same time these NPC were nowhere to be found. So some players used to just camp Jita entrance in Typhoon or other battleships and kill unorganized Caldari/Amarr FW farmers who was moving loot to market.

I have contacted support about it and they responded as 'logs show NPC attacking these guys" while i was able to watch that there was no NPC around.

Asked these players i haven't got straight answer but some points like "there is only so much spawns of faction police NPC in every system".

Tried some things i could imagine on SiSi but never succeeded. NPC still followed and attacked me.

Btw: at some point faction police ship made 'wrecking' hit with blasters on my ship from distance of 300 km. So i'm not sure if you can outspeed them.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2017-05-07 01:31:35 UTC
I've heard from certain people who did that that you can glitch out the NPC's by a method after which you can camp indefinitely. Personally I'd consider that an exploit so never even tried to make it work.
If you see it I'd suggest 5 minute video recording of them sitting there without being attacked or warping, and then report it including a link to the video to prove it.
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2017-05-07 01:43:23 UTC
If they're sitting on the station, they might just have their favorite sniping perches bookmarked. They get attacked by faction police -> they dock -> they warp to instawarp -> they warp back to their perches -> they go back to camping -> repeat.

A signature :o

Eternus8lux8lucis
Duckzer Mining Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
#7 - 2017-05-07 06:12:27 UTC
Trigger99 used to, still does, use this to great effect in Rens camping minnie FW on the undock. Hes the first I knew of that used the glitch/exploit.

The corp is GOG Guardians of he Gate that do sit there and camp indefinitely. Trust me Im there lots watching Jita. Its an unfortunate issue that CCP has never fixed and is now being used heavily and needs to be closed soon. An entire update to the FW police response should be considered seeing as the mechanics in place for them is very dated and known by all sides.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Gustav Mannfred
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-05-07 08:37:31 UTC
How can you exploit the faction police to not shoot you when entering enemy space?

They are not warping or bouncing safespots, they just sit there with their artynados

i'm REALY miss the old stuff. 

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183

Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#9 - 2017-05-08 22:45:57 UTC
Enemy fw ability to dock in your highsec is one of the dumbest things about this game.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#10 - 2017-05-08 23:39:49 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
There was some trick which allowed people to just sit in enemy high-sec while being 'attacked by NPC'. At the same time these NPC were nowhere to be found. So some players used to just camp Jita entrance in Typhoon or other battleships and kill unorganized Caldari/Amarr FW farmers who was moving loot to market.

I have contacted support about it and they responded as 'logs show NPC attacking these guys" while i was able to watch that there was no NPC around.

Asked these players i haven't got straight answer but some points like "there is only so much spawns of faction police NPC in every system".

Tried some things i could imagine on SiSi but never succeeded. NPC still followed and attacked me.

Btw: at some point faction police ship made 'wrecking' hit with blasters on my ship from distance of 300 km. So i'm not sure if you can outspeed them.




This reminds me of a tactic I have seen in Villore. Not sure if people still do it. It goes back to the days of "deep safes". Generally, they used deep safes that took too much power grid to completely warp to. So in the end you have a ship doing a warp that took a very long time. This kept facpo busy and yes, at the time, the idea was that there were only so many facpo to go around.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Hamtai
Iseeyou0
#11 - 2017-05-09 09:09:09 UTC
Black Pedro
Mine.
#12 - 2017-05-09 11:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
o7

I just went to Jita and saw lots of artytornados. All of them were in the same alliance. After checking info, I noticed they were in Gallente FW. As Gallente FW is the enemy of Caldari FW, the faction police should have engaged them, but there was just... nothing. not even a message, that an enemy player entered caldari space.

Is there a way to avoid police response when entering enemy space after joining FW?

http://imgur.com/a/GNvV4
Isn't this a problem for the Caldari militia to solve? They are perfectly engage-able by the other side(s) of FW as intended. The NPCs are not there to provide some magical protection to enable FW members to operate safely in highsec. They are there to populate the universe and, like the hapless NPCs players massacre every day, aren't especially smart or omnipotent. You have always been able to just out-tank and out-muscle them, and if clever enough, out-wit them as they are predictable and not very smart.

When you join FW you are in a war. You are not just part of some farmfest or consensual PvP party where you can opt-in or out of the war as you choose.

That said, I would love to see CCP rebalance and add this new AI to the faction navies to make them smarter and more player-like, but less predictable. It would be much more immersive if they didn't always show up to the second and with the same ships, but rather sometimes show up quickly, camp gates, or sometimes not at all so players can't play games like in the OP.
Othran
Route One
#13 - 2017-05-09 17:25:46 UTC
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
How can you exploit the faction police to not shoot you when entering enemy space?

They are not warping or bouncing safespots, they just sit there with their artynados


You are confusing a Concord response to a factional navy response.

For example you can pull factional navy aggro all around a system without too much of an issue. Its very tedious but it keeps them occupied while others do nefarious deeds AFTER you aggro the local navy.

You used to be able to do this with Concord too but that's now deemed an exploit - it never will be an exploit with a factional navy though as their role is not instadeath Lol
Xzanos
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2017-05-09 17:59:44 UTC
This topic has been brought up many many times in the past and CCPlease fix this. It logically makes no sense for an enemy FW player to camp market hubs or other hisec travel routes that contain faction police. Increase FW police effectiveness in this regard is a must. This is exactly he kind of thing that makes Newbros think CCP does not care about newer players.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

Xzanos
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2017-05-09 18:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Xzanos
Othran wrote:

You used to be able to do this with Concord too but that's now deemed an exploit - it never will be an exploit with a factional navy though as their role is not instadeath Lol


The role may not be instadeath but it should be much more than a slap on the wrist. If you have time to lock down a target on a gate or station, Faction Navy should have the time to lock you down e-war the F out of you and bring you to a short and quick demise.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

Hamtai
Iseeyou0
#16 - 2017-05-09 18:29:45 UTC
Now the tactic used is better (or worst may be)
Instead of using a rattlesnake pilot enrolled in fw to tank the fw spawns with the magic drone, they use a neutral pilot with bad standing to the opposite faction: its now impossible to destroy the drone or the rattlesnake without being concordokken, the tank chain can not be stopped

There is a limit to the number of faction spawns, once reached, any incoming pilot in system will have no spawn running after him
Xzanos
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2017-05-09 18:49:04 UTC
Hamtai wrote:
Now the tactic used is better (or worst may be)
Instead of using a rattlesnake pilot enrolled in fw to tank the fw spawns with the magic drone, they use a neutral pilot with bad standing to the opposite faction: its now impossible to destroy the drone or the rattlesnake without being concordokken, the tank chain can not be stopped

There is a limit to the number of faction spawns, once reached, any incoming pilot in system will have no spawn running after him


Completely broken and should be see as an exploit.

Also it should not be possible for any 1 ship to permatank multiple FW Navy spawns.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

morggs Sinulf
Guardians of the Gate
I Aim To Misbehave
#18 - 2017-06-17 18:47:17 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
o7

I just went to Jita and saw lots of artytornados. All of them were in the same alliance. After checking info, I noticed they were in Gallente FW. As Gallente FW is the enemy of Caldari FW, the faction police should have engaged them, but there was just... nothing. not even a message, that an enemy player entered caldari space.

Is there a way to avoid police response when entering enemy space after joining FW?

http://imgur.com/a/GNvV4
Isn't this a problem for the Caldari militia to solve? They are perfectly engage-able by the other side(s) of FW as intended. The NPCs are not there to provide some magical protection to enable FW members to operate safely in highsec. They are there to populate the universe and, like the hapless NPCs players massacre every day, aren't especially smart or omnipotent. You have always been able to just out-tank and out-muscle them, and if clever enough, out-with them as they are predictable and not very smart.

When you join FW you are in a war. You are not just part of some farmfest or consensual PvP party where you can opt-in or out of the war as you choose.

That said, I would love to see CCP rebalance and add this new AI to the faction navies to make them smarter and more player-like, but less predictable. It would be much more immersive if they didn't always show up to the second and with the same ships, but rather sometimes show up quickly, camp gates, or sometimes not at all so players can't play games like in the OP.


Nothing is broken nor is it an exploit. Just some smart guys thinking of clever ways to disrupt the enemy faction warfare activities.
It takes organisation, planning and commitment to sit in enemy high-sec at their main trade hub. Black Pedro is right when he says its a Caldari Militia problem to solve. If Caldari were to sit in Dodixie doing the same thing you'd soon see the response that is so lacking from Caldari, but if you don't like it you could always leave Caldari and come fight for the good guys. Lol
Aves Asio
#19 - 2017-06-17 21:01:50 UTC
One of the problems is that its literally not worth it to fight them
Eternus8lux8lucis
Duckzer Mining Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
#20 - 2017-06-17 21:23:33 UTC
The easiest solution is a lock out of docking in ANY station in enemy high sec and this would include citadels. It would mean that docking up isnt an option and any force actually responding would be able to run them off.

Its still an exploit imo but hey CCP doesnt mind the carnage. Its good for business.Twisted

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

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