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BETTER PVE EVENTS and BETTER DESIGN PVE TEAM
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Darien Avan
Sotave Argo
The Vanguard Syndicate
#1 - 2017-06-15 11:15:47 UTC
Good evening,
there seems to be some issues on your design team and the game in pve content. While you seem to have good intention on working around the pve content with some events and re-design of the game intro you do have a very small or bad design team on your pve content. As time passes you lessen your efforts to build this game in several directions and thus you focus on small detail changes that effect only end game PVP content and ratting-mining which is fun but it is not CONTENT. If you take example from several PVE content games in the MMO genre you will see EVENTS designed with detail and effect to give players a good time more regurarly than once a year and many of them been more than succesful they become a status quo in game. Start looking some other way if you want to invest into new players and content that would give them purpose in game BEFORE they get to nullsec or j space or so. Even if that is the subject you have a major issue there and I would suggest you take a good look at that part of the game.

with respect
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-06-15 11:46:02 UTC
Eve is a PVP game, why would you expect they would have a huge team or dedicate a ton of time to PVE?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#3 - 2017-06-15 11:56:34 UTC
Eve is primarily a PVP game. Not just combat - the economic simulation also creates lots of opportunity for players to compete or cooperate. PVE, as in shooting NPCs, has been neglected for a long time. It is basically an ISK farm for those who don't enjoy industry and they will likely complain bitterly if it is changed to be less predictable.

It is also important to realize that Eve is a sandbox - not a theme park. The developers job is not to entertain us but to give us tools to entertain ourselves.

Nonetheless change is coming - CCP has been working to create a smarter AI for the past couple of years, it is currently being tested as part of the Blood Raider shipyard event and we expect the first release to the "general public" with the expansion announced for this winter.

More info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zho8nopiluc

Darien Avan
Sotave Argo
The Vanguard Syndicate
#4 - 2017-06-15 12:13:51 UTC
It is more than obvious that CCP is trying to give PVE a chance, and by saying this PVE is not shooting rats or NPCS, so events can make out a whole new EVE for new players and as far as I am concerned for older ones. CCP has shown in many ways that it is ready to adopt PVE in the gam and noone can deny this. There are so many PVE things in game to do that the only thing they need is better design and appoach. So please keep the PVP only stuff in the old school and look ahead. If CCP wants this game go through this hard time it has to turn a lot more to PVE and new people.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#5 - 2017-06-15 13:22:13 UTC
Ccp do events from time to time. But it's time consuming and ccp has a smaller dev team than most others. Add that to the design of eve, its a player driven sandbox and constantly needs attention else where, i doubt you're gonna see regular events.

You think the game has to turn toward pve but it really doesn't. The game is more successful when focusing on pvp and pve players, of any game even wow, do not stick around. They complete what can be done and then look for the next game. Ccp does not have the capacity to reinvent its games every year like blizzard does.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Cade Windstalker
#6 - 2017-06-15 13:40:31 UTC
So, first off, that would be way easier to read if you bothered to use the return key more. Also stop abusing your poor shift key when titling threads, it's not needed and makes the thread seem poorly thought out like you typed the whole thing up reflexively in anger.

Beyond that, you've provided basically nothing in the way of ideas or suggestions here, it's basically just a wandering rant saying that you don't like the current state of PvE but with no suggestions for fixes or changes.

On top of that you seem to be under some serious misapprehensions about the role and state of PvE content in Eve. CCP have been iterating on and adding to PvE in Eve for as long as the game has been around. In fact they just dropped the Bloodraider Shipyards and the Mining Operations before that. You also mention events and 'once a year' but that's silly since CCP have started doing events like the current Rogue Swarm on a fairly regular basis about ~4 times a year. If you're asking for there to be an event on all the time that's just not realistic because creating these things takes more time than it takes for them to run their course, and it also defeats the point of an event if there's one going all the time.

Lastly, if you have some expectation that the game should focus less on PvP and player interaction you're going to be disappointed. CCP have been constantly improving the PvE content but the focus is always on the fact that Eve is a sandbox and that the interactions between players are the focus. That's why much of the newer content is focused on groups rather than solo play.
Axure Abbacus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-06-15 15:15:40 UTC
-Consider the number of lines of code it takes just for the lights to blink on your ship, then the time it takes to make sure that section of code doesn't inadvertently cause other sections of the eve client to bug out.

-Then multiply that exponentially to make a PVE agent mission to work. Even more to make a server wide event. I expect they can use a lot of canned code modules but it still takes x number of man hours to do things poorly and x^2 to get it right.

-In the end, it takes effort by many people to make things work and we still expect the bugs to get patched, new graphics, new structures, ships, modules, and not pay as much as it could cost to get everything done now.

There is a lot of effort that goes into generating a PVE event which is why some events are one offs and others like incursions are setup and left on loop for years on end. They do a good job for what they have to work with.


It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-06-15 16:52:55 UTC
Darien Avan wrote:
It is more than obvious that CCP is trying to give PVE a chance, and by saying this PVE is not shooting rats or NPCS, so events can make out a whole new EVE for new players and as far as I am concerned for older ones. CCP has shown in many ways that it is ready to adopt PVE in the gam and noone can deny this. There are so many PVE things in game to do that the only thing they need is better design and appoach. So please keep the PVP only stuff in the old school and look ahead. If CCP wants this game go through this hard time it has to turn a lot more to PVE and new people.



No, it is obvious that CCP is trying to use PVE to create more PVP encounters.

Consider their most recent PVE effort, the BR Shipyard.

It's a MASSIVE endeavor. It takes a lot of players. And at the end, there's ONE container with valuable loot in it. Last I checked, there was a good deal of raging and tears over it. Which is perfect.

They use PVE to incentivize players to leave their home pocket for more than just roams. Any time players meet is a chance for PVP.

Regarding your statement about PVP being old school, CCP-cited statistics have shown that people who engage in, and even LOSE a PVP fight are more likely to sub than ******** carebears who get bored of PVE content. PVE will never be as stimulating as PVP.
Luc Chastot
#9 - 2017-06-15 23:10:07 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Eve is a PVP game, why would you expect they would have a huge team or dedicate a ton of time to PVE?


Because:

1. EVE has PvE as in inherent part of the design.
2. Bad and/or neglected PvE is hurting the economy in all its forms.
3. Well designed PvE incentivizes PvP.

Take a cue from the latest patches and the Winter expansion plans.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#10 - 2017-06-16 00:36:15 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Eve is a PVP game, why would you expect they would have a huge team or dedicate a ton of time to PVE?


Because:

1. EVE has PvE as in inherent part of the design.
2. Bad and/or neglected PvE is hurting the economy in all its forms.
3. Well designed PvE incentivizes PvP.

Take a cue from the latest patches and the Winter expansion plans.


That doesn't mean we need yearly events.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#11 - 2017-06-16 02:00:31 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Eve is a PVP game, why would you expect they would have a huge team or dedicate a ton of time to PVE?


No, EVE is an MMORPG that allows for open world, non consensual PvP whenever you want. It's not a "PVP game". Without PvE CCP wouldn't be in business.
Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#12 - 2017-06-16 02:16:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius NoVegas
PVE is the base comtent for the game. While PVP may be the end game content goal. PVE is often times just a means to reach PVE and does require support to remained fresh at the least to keep it interesting. I think the yearly events are a great idea but they should be broken up into several in game events based upon Factions. Such as an event in Minmatar space celebrating there independence from Amarr (same could apply for Caldari) or an event in Amarr celebrating the queen or something. Just make the content in game related and each one provide unique rewards to include different skin per event, fireworks/lauchers, plex (keep this one rare), maybe a few rare BPC for the faction hosting the event.

The events could be done across all npc space because special agents will start them. Things like "We need X ore mined to create fireworks for the celebration" to " we need you to clear out pirates from X site to secure the system for the celebration". Agents will only give isk and firework awards but the real rewards such as skins will be found hidden in ore or the combat site. will give non-combat orientated players a chance to get in on the fun. I still recommend the best rewards such as plex should be in competitive combat sites as they are now in current events.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#13 - 2017-06-16 09:55:21 UTC
Scripted PVE events are problematic. They are fun the first time - after that it's a question of how do I blitz this for maximum ISK/hour?

There are other options.

* Procedurally Generated Content. This is now a mature methodology for generating maps, scenery and other artifacts. Every PVE encounter will look different even if it is the same old NPCs.
* Interdependence. NPC spawns can be drawn from a common pool. What you get depends on what other players are doing in their missions. Some spawns could have "named" NPCs with high value loot.
* Smarter AI that evaluates and responds to the threat- if you bring a fleet, they scale up proportionally. We know CCP is working on this.

The problem will be the farmers who are only interested in ISK/hour. It's hard to optimize if you never see the same scenario twice!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#14 - 2017-06-16 10:21:28 UTC
Do Little wrote:
Scripted PVE events are problematic. They are fun the first time - after that it's a question of how do I blitz this for maximum ISK/hour?

There are other options.

* Procedurally Generated Content. This is now a mature methodology for generating maps, scenery and other artifacts. Every PVE encounter will look different even if it is the same old NPCs.
* Interdependence. NPC spawns can be drawn from a common pool. What you get depends on what other players are doing in their missions. Some spawns could have "named" NPCs with high value loot.
* Smarter AI that evaluates and responds to the threat- if you bring a fleet, they scale up proportionally. We know CCP is working on this.

The problem will be the farmers who are only interested in ISK/hour. It's hard to optimize if you never see the same scenario twice!

Procedural generation needs new coding for every new game it is applied to,
It may be a methodology we are all used to now, but in EVE it would not be a mature methodology but a bug ridden new born infant. It doesn't mean I'm not wanting to see it in EVE, but it does mean that it is an epic amount of work to implement and will be heavily bugged and very abusable initially.
Brok Haslack
9624968
#15 - 2017-07-03 14:34:48 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Eve is a PVP game, why would you expect they would have a huge team or dedicate a ton of time to PVE?



It takes a special kinda stupid to think that EVE is just PvP. I'm pretty sure that the Sansha exist.


As for PvE upgrades I'd like to request that the Omen be next on the redesign list. It looks like a Turtle with it's front left leg ripped off, and I am NOT into animal cruelty.



Apart from that so far so good :)
Brok Haslack
9624968
#16 - 2017-07-03 14:39:02 UTC
Do Little wrote:
Scripted PVE events are problematic. They are fun the first time - after that it's a question of how do I blitz this for maximum ISK/hour?


Yes, this. This is how Incursions died.


In Incursions the enemy is predictable. So that means the Ship Choice you can play is maximised. Yet the fleets just crushed it down to Vindi or Nightmare. Because they got Gold-fever.

They were able to do so as they had the ISK to control the Ship Replacement Funds.

Their strangle-hold could be lifted if Insurance was better for T2 hulls, but so far this has not happened.

-

PvE is fun, as it is less intense than PvP. Yeah, sure, you can still die ( even by another player on a Suicide Gank ), but generally it IS more chilled out. Sometimes you need chilled out, as your day-job has been pants.

C'est la vie.

It's not all Intense Intense Intense.