These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1741 - 2017-06-12 15:16:51 UTC
Krieg Austern wrote:
The patch notes for tomorrow are up, and this change is going live.

Patch notes

Funny, the Vexor and Ishtar got graphical updates.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1742 - 2017-06-12 15:19:36 UTC
Petros K wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....


Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time?

Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm.

Like I said, please do not go full moron.


Maybe its you the one who is moron because you miss the big picture , YES what i am showing you is an extreme thing but its POSSIBLE . 1Bil in 20hours , 500M in 12hours , 250M in 6hours . With what? A 130M cost ship that you can fly with very little skills (not more that 3 months if well planned even for a new/noob player ) .

The time needed is 3x more than ratting with carrier , but being (semi)afk negates the feeling of passing time .

The main argument is "too much ISK entering the game" , what other proof you need to convince that the ISK printing methods arent the carriers ?




Although i hate this nerf/patch . i wish to happen . Only to prove that economy wont change abit .


Sure extremes are possible...so what? The question really is, "Where is this ISK coming from?" CCP is saying carriers and supers.

Pretty much everyone else is saying, "CCP is lying because :reasons:!!!!"

But why would CCP lie? Why deliberately **** of players, why deliberately risk having so many leave the game...for something that is not true and won't help the situation? Tears? GMAFB. IRL you can't sell tears, you can't buy anything with them. Money talks, bullshit walks.

Oh, and if a carrier is 3x as efficient as a single VNI, you can make that 250 million ISK and only rat for 2 hours giving you back 4 hours of leisure time. You'd be a complete dumbass or have no life not to make that trade.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Aleverette
Bag ol' Dciks
#1743 - 2017-06-12 15:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Aleverette
Teckos Pech wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


In 65 months we have not seen this sudden jump in the growth if ISK...and suddenly it is okay?

You are just simply wrong. That kind of growth in the money supply, if sustained, will be devastating in terms of inflation. Go look at the Chinese server were botting is completely allowed and ISK is flowing into the economy at unprecedented rates. PLEX were several multiples of what they cost on Tranquility and that was several years ago.
You can also freely buy characters, Ships and anything else we can't by exchanging RL money with another player.

This has NOTHING to do with TQ, it is down to Chinese EULA being modified to suit Chinese regulations. (Techos, stop trying to defend CCP with bullshite excuses)


CCP's idea of game "balance" is to make it so the richest largest groups will ALWAYS win the day.

4 nerfs to owning a pirate battleship in ONE release - If that isn't "balance" biased toward the rich, what is?

Carriers nerfed into the ground for both PVP and PVE when part of the reason isk income has gone up is due to a coming release advertised by CCP that fundamentally changes the way alliances fight (moon mining and bottom up income)

CCP caused the problem and are blaming and punishing players for their poor game design.



And another economic ignoramus.

Yes, people can do things on the Chinese server they can't do here and that leads to ALOT of ISK entering the economy and there being lots of inflation.Roll





Carriers pilots are different in Serenity and TQ, so you cannot mix them up together.
Those pilots in the fking Chinese server are all bots, yet here in TQ (at least most of them) are living human.

You can open 10 ratting bots accounts at the same time, yet you can barely control two carriers at the same time as a human.

ie. When ratting gets nerfed in Serenity, you are just kicking some isk farmers' butts, yet if dev do the same thing here, they are hurting mostly players.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#1744 - 2017-06-12 15:21:02 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
Wow! My statements really hurt a hundred accounts intelligent owners! Yay! Twisted

My brain hurts every time I read this forum. For a game where the average player is smarter than the average human, there sure are a lot of stupid people around here. But then again, the average human is fairly dumb already, so it's not particularly hard to pass that bar.
A miracle humanity managed to survive this long.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Smalahove
Doomheim
#1745 - 2017-06-12 15:21:15 UTC
Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1746 - 2017-06-12 15:22:22 UTC
Valdr Auduin wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....


Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time?

Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm.

Like I said, please do not go full moron.


Maybe its you the one who is moron because you miss the big picture , YES what i am showing you is an extreme thing but its POSSIBLE . 1Bil in 20hours , 500M in 12hours , 250M in 6hours . With what? A 130M cost ship that you can fly with very little skills (not more that 3 months if well planned even for a new/noob player ) .

The time needed is 3x more than ratting with carrier , but being (semi)afk negates the feeling of passing time .

The main argument is "too much ISK entering the game" , what other proof you need to convince that the ISK printing methods arent the carriers ?




Although i hate this nerf/patch . i wish to happen . Only to prove that economy wont change abit .


Your method is also scaleable across alts where a carrier isn't, the time-cost is irrelevant when you can double your number of PLEX'd subs every day. And no I'm not discounting the training time, that's irrelevant when skill injectors exist and each VNI is making 500 Plex a day. The VNI multi-box is a runaway exploit, carriers just make one single account very efficient to farm.


Good lord....

The costs also scale....linearly--i.e. there are no economies of scale here, if anything there maybe diseconomies of scale. That is as you use more alts each one becomes slightly less productive as attention is divided, and that divided attention may result in a higher likelihood of ship loss reducing your net gains.

Christ, you people really love your straws don't you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1747 - 2017-06-12 15:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Valdr Auduin
Teckos Pech wrote:
Valdr Auduin wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Go look at the data.

ISK entering the economy has increased by 757%

Looks like a lot of farming and production with very few destructions, more or less, stockpiling is occurring and it looks to be occurring mainly in Delve and the way very little is being blown up I'd wager this is Corps and Alliances building up for a big fight.

The data makes CCPs nerf look even more reactive and ham-handed, especially since users have clearly demonstrated that ISK farmers ought to be using things like the VNI instead of time-wasters like the carriers.

Your **** stinks, Teckos.


Production does not result in more ISK. The sources of ISK are listed in the MER.

Yes, I in no way implied that the production was causing the ISK inflation, that would be 'farming' another activity large corporations devote time and energy to doing in large quantities.

Quote:
Good lord....

The costs also scale....linearly--i.e. there are no economies of scale here, if anything there maybe diseconomies of scale. That is as you use more alts each one becomes slightly less productive as attention is divided, and that divided attention may result in a higher likelihood of ship loss reducing your net gains.

Christ, you people really love your straws don't you.

Sorry, did you expand those assumptions out across an entire monthly cycle and then multiply that profit margin by potential number of accounts manageable? Meanwhile the carrier ratter is still sitting in his lone carrier, playing the micro game with fighters. AFK ratting is geometric up to human limits, carrier ratting is linear.
Crash 888
TRINTEX
#1748 - 2017-06-12 15:23:49 UTC
Smalahove wrote:
Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2.


Not controlling the crowd very well now are they

Perhaps they should put out some concept art for player stargates or something, calm the nerds down. Twisted
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#1749 - 2017-06-12 15:24:07 UTC
Smalahove wrote:
Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2.

http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1750 - 2017-06-12 15:25:19 UTC
Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here.

The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply.


A cold war caused by a TERRIBLE sov mechanics has a tendency to also cause an increase in the amount of money generation. Maybe you should try to find the problem and not do what CCP is doing by putting bandaids on a symptom...

You're also naive if you don't think people will just move back to "printing ISK" in semi-AFK drone boats instead of carriers. Carriers were never the most efficient ISK per effort in the game, but it allowed people to play on one account and make the same amount of ISK per hour as running 3-4 accounts using VNIs. Carriers were a click fest, but they were perfect for the person who maybe can't play 20 hours a day or run multiple accounts. The only thing CCP will do with this patch is nerf carrier's PVP ability and forced the customer base to adapt to multi-boxing 3-4 accounts using semi-afk drone boats instead...


You don't see the inherent contradiction in your post there do you? A carrier was good for a person who can't afford to pay for his sub, but he'll expand his accounts by 3 or 4...and find the money somewhere? Never mind that using VNIs are less efficient meaning he'll have to rate even longer for each of these accounts to PLEX them.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1751 - 2017-06-12 15:27:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
RKJakTup wrote:


not really, i see what your trying to say but they can do it where you cant use caps to do some type of end game just by adding gates. and they can drop supcap mods to bring up the value of subcaps in pve and isk gathering. witch in turn ups the isk value of the ship witch is risk = reward


Add gates and you make the problem of not being able to catch anyone bigger.

What they could do is make this change as a temporary fix and then move to make anoms unfarmable for supers by adding dreadnoughts that don't have a bounty that spawn if a capital is on grid. They then unerf carriers and supers.


I like it.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Longdrinks
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#1752 - 2017-06-12 15:27:29 UTC
good solid change, capital ships are for noobs
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1753 - 2017-06-12 15:30:12 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I know most people here are averse to looking at the data...but you can find it here.

The money supply grew rapidly last month. We saw some pretty wild swings recently with Alpha clones lining up with a surge in the money supply. A big drop when citadels were released (everyone and their Uncle Bob buying up blueprints). There is no similar explanation with the recent rise in the money supply.


A cold war caused by a TERRIBLE sov mechanics has a tendency to also cause an increase in the amount of money generation. Maybe you should try to find the problem and not do what CCP is doing by putting bandaids on a symptom...

You're also naive if you don't think people will just move back to "printing ISK" in semi-AFK drone boats instead of carriers. Carriers were never the most efficient ISK per effort in the game, but it allowed people to play on one account and make the same amount of ISK per hour as running 3-4 accounts using VNIs. Carriers were a click fest, but they were perfect for the person who maybe can't play 20 hours a day or run multiple accounts. The only thing CCP will do with this patch is nerf carrier's PVP ability and forced the customer base to adapt to multi-boxing 3-4 accounts using semi-afk drone boats instead...


You don't see the inherent contradiction in your post there do you? A carrier was good for a person who can't afford to pay for his sub, but he'll expand his accounts by 3 or 4...and find the money somewhere? Never mind that using VNIs are less efficient meaning he'll have to rate even longer for each of these accounts to PLEX them.

Yes, but VNI-ratting is sustainable over longer periods to the point, as demonstrated, of breaking the cost margin.
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1754 - 2017-06-12 15:32:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Beast of Revelations
Written on a white board somewhere inside CCP...

__________________
PROBLEM:

Too much ISK.

SOLUTION:

Adjust PvP balance.
__________________


Seriously? BWAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
She11by
Big Boys Don't Cry
Kids With Guns Alliance
#1755 - 2017-06-12 15:36:55 UTC
So basically you are forcing people to WORK in EVE not PLAY it.

P.S.
In pvp, carriers and motherships are already 100% useless to any ship with AB or low signature, and we are not even talking about 3-5 fragile downgraded drones that are called ' squads '
Thead Enco
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1756 - 2017-06-12 15:41:06 UTC
She11by wrote:
So basically you are forcing people to WORK in EVE not PLAY it.

P.S.
In pvp, carriers and motherships are already 100% useless to any ship with AB or low signature, and we are not even talking about 3-5 fragile downgraded drones that are called ' squads '


And buy more PLEX to supplement your income.
Sam Khanid
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1757 - 2017-06-12 15:43:33 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:
Smalahove wrote:
Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2.

http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg


Linus is the biggest troll on this forum, I'd almost swear she's logging in alts to like her posts x2 everytime she does it - her prose reaks of vanity, and her logic is about as hollow as it gets. Nerfing fighters by 20% damage is a **** move, there are hundreds of posts from others in this threadchain echoing those thoughts, but CCP doesn't care and all our words are worth less than nothing to them. If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters.
Kortes Ellecon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1758 - 2017-06-12 15:45:23 UTC
1800 replies under this thread ,but 0 response from ccp .The situation of players for now .Currently online: 24,732
Max (24h): 35,914 (2017-06-11 19:34

online: 65,303 (2013-05-05)

so its the result of your update strategy .
its 3rd big fail from ccp after "epic fatigue update" which leads to killing game online if u will release this update online will be down under 20000 again .So think twice before releasing your "epic rebalance ideas" .
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1759 - 2017-06-12 15:50:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


What they could do is make this change as a temporary fix and then move to make anoms unfarmable for supers by adding dreadnoughts that don't have a bounty that spawn if a capital is on grid. They then unerf carriers and supers.


That would be better.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#1760 - 2017-06-12 15:50:50 UTC
Sam Khanid wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
Smalahove wrote:
Crowd Control Productions is killing their game, so they can launch EvE Online 2.

http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg


Linus is the biggest troll on this forum, I'd almost swear she's logging in alts to like her posts x2 everytime she does it - her prose reaks of vanity, and her logic is about as hollow as it gets. Nerfing fighters by 20% damage is a **** move, there are hundreds of posts from others in this threadchain echoing those thoughts, but CCP doesn't care and all our words are worth less than nothing to them. If you hate the changes, unsub for a month or two and hit them in the wallet--nothing else matters.

To put in the effort to like my own posts I'd have to give a **** about likes in the first place. I don't.

And just a tip. If you want to argue with me on a logical level, then use logic. Tears and illogical emotional made-up arguments don't qualify.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.