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Strategic Cruiser Focus Group Working Thread

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JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#201 - 2017-06-11 05:01:51 UTC
why drones on a tengu missile sub but ignore the fact legion laser sub needs them like 5x as much
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2017-06-11 10:51:43 UTC
JC Mieyli wrote:
why drones on a tengu missile sub but ignore the fact legion laser sub needs them like 5x as much

What about giving at least 2 small drones to every offensive subsystems?

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2017-06-11 14:44:12 UTC
Is this now touching the realm of power creep? At least in terms of the re-balance?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2017-06-11 15:13:31 UTC
Among the Caldari cruisers, only the Navy Caracal, Eagle and Onyx have no drone bays. The Zealot (Amarr), Phobos (Gallente) and Broadsword (Minmatar) also lacks drones.
Interestingly, literally half of the ships I listed here are HICs.

I think all cruisers should have room and be able to use at least 2 small utility drones, and this includes all possible variations of the T3Cs too.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#205 - 2017-06-11 15:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Mieyli
nvm dont wanna explain lol
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2017-06-11 15:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Mieyli
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
literally half of the ships I listed here are HICs

a mixture of hacs and hics
but yeah the zealots lack drones because they arent supposed to be self sufficient
they were originally designed to be fleet support ships that can pick off small targets from range such as stealth bombers
they can still do that pretty well but its such a niche role
they just suck and i dont see why legion should be forced into that sucky role just because zealot sucks
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#207 - 2017-06-12 11:43:52 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Among the Caldari cruisers, only the Navy Caracal, Eagle and Onyx have no drone bays. The Zealot (Amarr), Phobos (Gallente) and Broadsword (Minmatar) also lacks drones.
Interestingly, literally half of the ships I listed here are HICs.

I think all cruisers should have room and be able to use at least 2 small utility drones, and this includes all possible variations of the T3Cs too.

No ship should automatically just get a drone bay because of its size or cost. The drone bay should also fit with the ship's role.

Just needing "a little extra utility" in what is arguably the most flexible class of ships in the game is not a valid justification.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Casidian Isu
Siren Heavy Industry Network
#208 - 2017-06-12 16:23:41 UTC
The offensive subsystems for the tengu make it a far less viable option than the other the three to me. Maybe add an explosion radius bonus for the missile subsystem and a falloff or tracking bonus to the tengu MHT subsystem.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#209 - 2017-06-12 19:47:10 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Among the Caldari cruisers, only the Navy Caracal, Eagle and Onyx have no drone bays. The Zealot (Amarr), Phobos (Gallente) and Broadsword (Minmatar) also lacks drones.
Interestingly, literally half of the ships I listed here are HICs.

I think all cruisers should have room and be able to use at least 2 small utility drones, and this includes all possible variations of the T3Cs too.

No ship should automatically just get a drone bay because of its size or cost. The drone bay should also fit with the ship's role.

Just needing "a little extra utility" in what is arguably the most flexible class of ships in the game is not a valid justification.



It makes more sense for the offensive Caldari subs to have drones than the logistics. Also the Tengu configs can have as few as 2 low slots, a BCU + drones would make up for the loss of the launcher.

As for the Amarr laser sub.... try flying it, never had any problems blapping frigs with it provided I took into account what I was doing.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#210 - 2017-06-12 19:48:11 UTC
zbaaca wrote:
Mhari Dson wrote:

I also find the lack of drones on the caldari missile sub to be a hinderance as well. proposal on that bieng remove 1 launcher, shift 1 high to a low, add 25 bandwidth, 50 bay.

caldari and drones... do you even belive in your words ?Lol



Probably more than you know, I've logged a couple thousand hours in a tengu.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#211 - 2017-06-12 20:12:46 UTC
Mhari Dson wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Among the Caldari cruisers, only the Navy Caracal, Eagle and Onyx have no drone bays. The Zealot (Amarr), Phobos (Gallente) and Broadsword (Minmatar) also lacks drones.
Interestingly, literally half of the ships I listed here are HICs.

I think all cruisers should have room and be able to use at least 2 small utility drones, and this includes all possible variations of the T3Cs too.

No ship should automatically just get a drone bay because of its size or cost. The drone bay should also fit with the ship's role.

Just needing "a little extra utility" in what is arguably the most flexible class of ships in the game is not a valid justification.



It makes more sense for the offensive Caldari subs to have drones than the logistics.


It's probably so you can toss some armor rep drones or something like that.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#212 - 2017-06-12 20:18:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mhari Dson
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Mhari Dson wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Among the Caldari cruisers, only the Navy Caracal, Eagle and Onyx have no drone bays. The Zealot (Amarr), Phobos (Gallente) and Broadsword (Minmatar) also lacks drones.
Interestingly, literally half of the ships I listed here are HICs.

I think all cruisers should have room and be able to use at least 2 small utility drones, and this includes all possible variations of the T3Cs too.

No ship should automatically just get a drone bay because of its size or cost. The drone bay should also fit with the ship's role.

Just needing "a little extra utility" in what is arguably the most flexible class of ships in the game is not a valid justification.



It makes more sense for the offensive Caldari subs to have drones than the logistics.


It's probably so you can toss some armor rep drones or something like that.



A flight of unbonused light armor/structure... hell any unbonused light rep drones are senselessly weak under the circumstances dictated for use in this case.

Looks more like a "here use these to KM whore"


EDIT: when can we expect this to hit SiSi? we need at least two weeks to break it so it's not unhinged when it hits TQ.
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2017-06-12 20:23:07 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Among the Caldari cruisers, only the Navy Caracal, Eagle and Onyx have no drone bays. The Zealot (Amarr), Phobos (Gallente) and Broadsword (Minmatar) also lacks drones.
Interestingly, literally half of the ships I listed here are HICs.

I think all cruisers should have room and be able to use at least 2 small utility drones, and this includes all possible variations of the T3Cs too.

No ship should automatically just get a drone bay because of its size or cost. The drone bay should also fit with the ship's role.

I would try to agree with this, but every single battleship in the game has a drone bay, regardless of it's faction, cost or role, so the game itself also seem to disagree with you.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2017-06-12 20:52:40 UTC
I was looking at the drone related offensive systems, but I only see bandwidth and no info about the drone bay size. I'm mostly interested about the Proteus, because in my opinion the current drone setups are significantly worse than what other weapons can achieve. I'm glad to see that the new drone offensive system will have 100 Mbit, but I would like to know how many drones can I put in my ship.
For comparison: the Ishtar has 375 m3 and the Stratios has 400 m3 drone bay, so I think 300 m3 for the new version would be reasonable.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#215 - 2017-06-12 22:10:51 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Among the Caldari cruisers, only the Navy Caracal, Eagle and Onyx have no drone bays. The Zealot (Amarr), Phobos (Gallente) and Broadsword (Minmatar) also lacks drones.
Interestingly, literally half of the ships I listed here are HICs.

I think all cruisers should have room and be able to use at least 2 small utility drones, and this includes all possible variations of the T3Cs too.

No ship should automatically just get a drone bay because of its size or cost. The drone bay should also fit with the ship's role.

I would try to agree with this, but every single battleship in the game has a drone bay, regardless of it's faction, cost or role, so the game itself also seem to disagree with you.


These are cruisers not battleships.

Caldari cruisers all have poor to no drone bays because of the way missiles work. Tengu should operate in the same way.
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2017-06-12 23:15:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Among the Caldari cruisers, only the Navy Caracal, Eagle and Onyx have no drone bays. The Zealot (Amarr), Phobos (Gallente) and Broadsword (Minmatar) also lacks drones.
Interestingly, literally half of the ships I listed here are HICs.

I think all cruisers should have room and be able to use at least 2 small utility drones, and this includes all possible variations of the T3Cs too.

No ship should automatically just get a drone bay because of its size or cost. The drone bay should also fit with the ship's role.

I would try to agree with this, but every single battleship in the game has a drone bay, regardless of it's faction, cost or role, so the game itself also seem to disagree with you.


These are cruisers not battleships.

Caldari cruisers all have poor to no drone bays because of the way missiles work. Tengu should operate in the same way.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to turn the Caldari into a drone faction, even if these tiny space pets are awesome. But not counting the Tengu, the "poor to no drone bays" still means that 9 out of the 12 ships have drone bays.
And you have to admit that even a few drones are infinitely more useful than no drones.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#217 - 2017-06-13 02:24:18 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Among the Caldari cruisers, only the Navy Caracal, Eagle and Onyx have no drone bays. The Zealot (Amarr), Phobos (Gallente) and Broadsword (Minmatar) also lacks drones.
Interestingly, literally half of the ships I listed here are HICs.

I think all cruisers should have room and be able to use at least 2 small utility drones, and this includes all possible variations of the T3Cs too.

No ship should automatically just get a drone bay because of its size or cost. The drone bay should also fit with the ship's role.

I would try to agree with this, but every single battleship in the game has a drone bay, regardless of it's faction, cost or role, so the game itself also seem to disagree with you.


These are cruisers not battleships.

Caldari cruisers all have poor to no drone bays because of the way missiles work. Tengu should operate in the same way.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to turn the Caldari into a drone faction, even if these tiny space pets are awesome. But not counting the Tengu, the "poor to no drone bays" still means that 9 out of the 12 ships have drone bays.
And you have to admit that even a few drones are infinitely more useful than no drones.


With the state of medium missile weaponry bieng poor at best over the last five years, this really shouldn't even be an argument.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#218 - 2017-06-13 08:50:13 UTC
Mhari Dson wrote:

With the state of medium missile weaponry bieng poor at best over the last five years, this really shouldn't even be an argument.


They are reworking all mods this summer.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#219 - 2017-06-13 09:54:41 UTC
I have a little concern about covert+nullify combo tank. Last night I was flying trough goons space and encountered 3 smartbombing BSs. They instantely hit me with more than 2k dmg, with current ehp (10k shield, lowest resist is 50%) it was not so much but after the rebalance overall ehp will be a lot less. Leaning toward active tanking doesn't help much with such encounters and having something as lazy as "lets bring 5 BS and smart bomb everyone who want to enter the pipe" doesn't seems to fall with "risk vs reward" null needs to be.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#220 - 2017-06-13 10:21:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
I don't like the 7.5% rep bonus for the cloak/probe subsystem. It will either limit the use too much or will be unused when the ship is part of a fleet. It would be much better to have a resistance bonus.

I'm very disappointing that CCP didn't take this opportunity to add a few new subsystems. I would like to see a set of industrial subsystems for industry which would have bonuses/roles for the following:

Gas mining amount bonus (offensive sub): This should enable the players to create the best gas mining ship in the game. i.e. better than the venture

Mass reduction (defensive sub): Reduces the mass of a T3 so that they can fit though a frigate hole but reduces the tank of the T3

Increase cargo hold (core): allows the T3 to be used as a transport ship or increases hole for mining

The wishlist is pretty much complete...