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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Hafwolf
Git R Done Resources
#1241 - 2017-06-10 16:46:58 UTC
I think if isk making is the issue then CCP should attach that at the point. the problem is the number of sites a carrier can do in an hour. I can solo a haven in an ishtar in about 40 minutes and a carrier can do int in 10 so limit the spawns of sites or add gates to all the sites except ones that are for capitals and then put them on a lower spawn rate.

Last time I looked the system I was in had 6 havens and 3 sanctums maybe increase the amount of time between spawns.

I remember when it was only 1 sanctum and 3 havens then ccp really nerfed npc because of the same problem trying to get people to fight over sov.

Also if you look at this increase might be the prelude to people getting ready for war and fighting. Then ccp acts with a nerf on a warship in time to kill the interest in sov fighting.
Mary Timeshift Jane
Doomheim
#1242 - 2017-06-10 16:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mary Timeshift Jane
Hookaj Haj wrote:
The game is about to change drastically with the new moon mining system. Is it really necessary to make significant changes just before this all happens? Players are already trying to figure out how moon mining is going to change nullsec.

STOP MESSING WITH SHIPS AND FOCUS ON THE MOON MINING CHANGES!!!!

If you have to generate RL $$$ for CCP stock more NPC items such as re-releases of limited or depleted items. ie gecko bpc's for plex.

If there is a huge isk faucet plug it with increased Sansha's Incursions in regions with massive output. There will be inherent losses of ships/reduced bounties.... When incursion wormholes open up they should send scouts to tackle ratters.

Create new content. Ratting anoms are old and have had few changes. Randomly generate the spawns within anoms. Increase the number of Electronics Warfare capabilities, TP-WEB-SCRAM-Sensor Damp-Jamming, ***remove rock havens*** they are talentless isk faucets. Increase Wormhole connection possibility based on local numbers/ships in space or with each haven/sanctum ran there is a chance of making a call for wormhole connection .05% so wormhole groups looking for PVP will connect to those high isk generating systems.

Create a Keepstar mod that when activated generates a wormhole (between the two pillars/towers) to a random system with significant pilot activity (100+ and consumes liquid ozone by the millions to open, staying open so long as there is Liquid Ozone to consume using the same formula as for bridging). There could be mods for each size of wormhole and they could connect to known or wormhole space. This would significantly increase PVP activity and create a huge isk sink from the massive amount of combat generated. The mod would require an NPC CONCORD blueprint, significant amounts of strontium 50 million+, NPC dread/titan loot drop parts (jump portal generation parts and siege components in large numbers), and tons of sleeper parts.


Sure, good ideas, they can delete all anoms for all I care. Just send me a few trillions isk, cause EVE Online is not my 2nd job, it's a game, games are played for fun, I'm not gonna bother working here.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1243 - 2017-06-10 16:51:53 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do.


Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run.

The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well.....
Spec 593357629
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1244 - 2017-06-10 16:53:39 UTC
Stop trying to kill your game. I'm using a vindicator for ratting, I would like to use my carrier for pvp please. Stop making shity changes. a direct nerf to dps of the carrier is THE LAZIEST change i've seen in a long time. GET YOUR **** TOGETHER CCP.
Nevase Prometeus
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1245 - 2017-06-10 16:56:36 UTC
If you need to reduce ISK storming in system for equal why not reduce all bounty in every level mission. Make fraction items is the reasons for players to rat not bounty.

But I think no matters how much players talks CCP never listen .It like whispers to deaf ears . That why EVE is in downfall . CCP you running service business . Try to make customers happy to pay for your service that's how to do business.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1246 - 2017-06-10 16:57:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:
Quote:


600% more ISK entering the game.


So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun.
Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP.

Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right.

I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to!


Want to point this out as an example of the extreme short sightedness. The problem isn't some virtual spaceship attributes, its that people don't understand the basics of how money works.

If everyone has money, then money is worthless. Carrier and Super Carrier ratting (along with the afkability of null sec anoms) is turning ISK in EVE Online into Zimbabwe Money.. We ALL end up on a super stupid isk treadmill where we all have to grind more to get what we need in game because of this.

CCP's action will (at least partially) reverse this. Yes your super or carrier will be less good at burning down havens and sanctums, but it doesn't matter because eventually the isk in your wallet will have some actual value. CCP just needs to do something about afkability in null sec anoms (then tackle wealth generation in high sec with is too safe) and we'll all be sitting pretty economically.
Mary Timeshift Jane
Doomheim
#1247 - 2017-06-10 16:59:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do.


Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run.

The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well.....


Your argument defeats itself. Since I'm already well off, because i put in effort and time and made myself richer than most others, why should I care about what's good for an average guy who doesn't care to put the same effort and time in the first place. Everyone could be rich but #effort & #time are two alien aspects of life to mediocre population.

Apropos, everything should be free for everyone to have ultimate maximum fun, no work - just fun. It's you capitalists and jews blabbering about value of this and that who don't get it and are holding the world back from evolving into its greater version altogether.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1248 - 2017-06-10 16:59:32 UTC
Nevase Prometeus wrote:
If you need to reduce ISK storming in system for equal why not reduce all bounty in every level mission. Make fraction items is the reasons for players to rat not bounty.

But I think no matters how much players talks CCP never listen .It like whispers to deaf ears . That why EVE is in downfall . CCP you running service business . Try to make customers happy to pay for your service that's how to do business.


It's good CCP aren't listening. People are being dumb as hell.
Cpt WhiteEye
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1249 - 2017-06-10 17:01:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do.


Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run.

The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well.....



How does reduced Carrier/Super DPS benefit me in the long run?
Still none of you understand the point.
For that 300m i want i will simply add 20 more minutes to my ratting time. And i will get the same amount of ISK from rats.
The only thing changed here is the combat capabilities of such ships and the amount of time ppl will spen ratting with them. Nothing else.

Will it solve the increasing wealth of players? NO
Will it remove an entire class of ships from the battlefield? YES

We already ran the numbers on the new carriers. And sadly an active tank battleship can tank them after nerf. Simple as that.
They are simply will be on the same level of a Rattlesnake. Except the rattle will have more DPS. So the first time youll see a Rattle solo a Carrier tell me this was good.

Unless you understand this theres no point arguing.

Also this kind of promotes incursions even more. Since they dont change the dps of Shadows. And we all know where they come from.
T4lon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1250 - 2017-06-10 17:01:26 UTC
Pretty much everyone else has made the points worth making, so I'll not repeat it. Just want to add my voice to the long list of people saying "DO NOT WANT!"
Eonan Dmalum
Waffle Strategic Services
WAFFLES.
#1251 - 2017-06-10 17:02:46 UTC
You lost all seven of my subs today. In addition to the chances of ever seeing another dime from me on PLEX. Let that sink in for a minute.
Mary Timeshift Jane
Doomheim
#1252 - 2017-06-10 17:02:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:
Quote:


600% more ISK entering the game.


So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun.
Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP.

Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right.

I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to!


Want to point this out as an example of the extreme short sightedness. The problem isn't some virtual spaceship attributes, its that people don't understand the basics of how money works.

If everyone has money, then money is worthless. Carrier and Super Carrier ratting (along with the afkability of null sec anoms) is turning ISK in EVE Online into Zimbabwe Money.. We ALL end up on a super stupid isk treadmill where we all have to grind more to get what we need in game because of this.

CCP's action will (at least partially) reverse this. Yes your super or carrier will be less good at burning down havens and sanctums, but it doesn't matter because eventually the isk in your wallet will have some actual value. CCP just needs to do something about afkability in null sec anoms (then tackle wealth generation in high sec with is too safe) and we'll all be sitting pretty economically.


Isk is just a mediator, and totally irrelevant in its core. What's relevant are materials needed to build things, and gathering those materials require time and effort. Minerals don't mine themselves, you know. If people don't mine y ou will have no ships to buy with all your isk whatever value it is. Promoting value of mediators is also misleading people and tricking them into believing isk is in any way relevant.
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1253 - 2017-06-10 17:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Valdr Auduin
Wow, and to think I was about to start training up for carriers to augment my monthly sub with PLEX and start running alts; guess not!

So, as I've come to find out, to my grave disappointment, Dust is dead, a major superclass of endgame shipping is about to get eradicated (and one that I enjoy thematically too) and we only have to wait for Sony to release the newest console model for Valkyrie to go **** up and die too because CCP apparently doesn't care to port their hard work and keep it relevant.

    Here's a few suggestions, total spit-balling, first-post, EVE noobie ****, feel free to call me names:
    =Fighters Suck, Swarm Now=
    ED: After educating myself on carriers I want to fly them even more upon learning they don't seem to have the same numerical limitations as drones, which makes me even more sad because this nerf accordingly prevents them from being viable in PvP.

    =Other Stuff=
    War games, fighting over PI, PI-SOV, capping capitals-sitting on citadels
  • SOV is created by PI, not starbases, starbases just protect PI by being the big '****-you' blobs they are
  • Each Command Center holds a portion of the SOV produced by a planet, maximum number of command centers per planet is limited by how much SOV the planet generates, as each system tends to have more than one planet grabbing up enough SOV to hold the system requires decent investment in PI deployment, which alliances should have anyways
    • Command Center Upgrades skill training and a new PI (Administration Center) could be implemented to allow a single PI array to collect a larger percentage of a planet's shared SOV than a basic Command Center with no Admin Centers attached.
  • sub-content: bring back orbital bombardment of PI and add NPC troops (DUST:The Orbital RTS)
    • Troopers are a PI resource created in training camps and special types by putting basic troops through academies, both stored in barracks; PI can be further diversified by allowing tiered equipment schematics/blueprints to be custom fitted to "companies" of ~250 at a time- looking at the guard staff required for building a keepstar inspired the idea
    Fozzie-SOV mechanics are now meaningful because each system node (Command Center) is both an incremental SOV resource and a PI lynchpin and every engagement with them is tangible to the players at the site and supports the overall system conquest. Upper echelon command must also manage a multi-grid engagement dictated by the specific geometry of the target system, this applies to both sides of the conflict, citadel placement becomes strategic to support defense of PI-SOV and direction of approach a significant concern- these factors are not direct mechanics that require balancing, but emergent features caused by the simple existence of PI-SOV, the main coding of which is merely an overhaul of the entosis interface being replaced by destruction/capture/boots-on-the-ground mechanics
    This is really a two-part item, Fozzie-SOV can be replicated, as far as I understand it, by orbital bombardment damage to PI and very simple 'troop-landing'/'troop-reinforcement' timers placed on PI ownership, a more detailed interface comes with making ground troops game assets on the planetary overlay and their interface with nearby shipping. I suppose citadels could be used within an "orbital range" of a planet to lock up a certain amount of SOV, preventing others from installing new PI or capturing the old and needing to conquer both the planet and the fortress protecting it to collect the SOV therefrom, but that's more mechanical detail than I have the experience with the game to comfortably theorycraft.
  • secondary sub-content: boarding actions of starbases, citadels, and capitals/super-caps via squads of NPC troops over companies
  • tertiary sub-content: combine walking in stations with boarding actions, PC boarders now need "walking skills" and equipment a la the old DUST314 mechanics (of which I have absolutely no exposure, so, hey) and can buff/debuff local NPC troops as well as secure captured assets- this would probably require an industrial fitted with troop-carrier modules, tractor beams, boarding clamps, or special drone shuttles or I don't even know- why an industrial? because front-loaded abuse curbing, same with PI invasion, relegate it to an industrial or freighter fit with an option for high-cost (CPU/MJ cost, not isk cost) fits to corvettes and frigates for the edgy combat insertion specialists. I could see EVE players also deploying planetside to bring back dust in its full glory, but when I'm talking about moving dots across the overlay of a minimum of 250 men strong, individual capsuleers are going to be tiny fish in a big pond they aren't really designed for- and the TiDi would be a *****.

    • PvE Reciprocity
  • NPC Factions, including nations have access to all of the above as implemented and will try to take PC assets of the capturable categories inside or near their given territories, this is just an extension of the NPC adaptability content already in CCP's pipeline

    • Nomadic Lolz
  • ORE/Upwell industrial titan (another flavor of giant space penis): gimp it a bit (like 0.2%~5%, not 30%) on resistances, velocity, and EHP; don't give it any new hold space, just keep everything as is; and let it mount strip miners and micro-sized S-Slot STANDUP rigs- actually, just make Small STANDUP rigs a Titan feature in general- boom, mobile citadels with massive mining DPS and a hold so small you need to fleet up industrials and freighters to keep the lasers running
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1254 - 2017-06-10 17:03:33 UTC
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do.


Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run.

The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well.....


Your argument defeats itself. Since I'm already well off, because i put in effort and time and made myself richer than most others, why should I care about what's good for an average guy who doesn't care to put the same effort and time in the first place. Everyone could be rich but #effort & #time are two alien aspects of life to mediocre population.

Apropos, everything should be free for everyone to have ultimate maximum fun, no work - just fun. It's you capitalists and jews blabbering about value of this and that who don't get it and are holding the world back from evolving into its greater version altogether.


This isn't about effort. CCP made a disasterous change when they changed fighters, and players used this to hyperinflate the money supply in EVE. CCP are now fixing this problem, and the (average of 27 years old) man children who got used to printing isk are pissed off that CCP is taking away the mistake they are exploiting.

It's just a video game, but the response people are having shows IMO who people are crappy IRL and why another asteroid slamming into the rock we live on might not be a terribly bad idea.
Nevase Prometeus
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1255 - 2017-06-10 17:06:41 UTC
Now I had one more reason to go for SC
Mary Timeshift Jane
Doomheim
#1256 - 2017-06-10 17:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mary Timeshift Jane
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do.


Everyone is so focused on what they STUPIDLY think is "good for them" and don't understand that (with the exception of pvp use) these changes will eventually benefit them in the form of high value of the isk in their wallets , improved prices of the loot and escalations they sell and perhaps lower plex prices in the long run.

The scary thing to me is that these people who are complaining because they don't get it also have the right to vote in whatever country they come from. If they can't see up from down and right from wrong in a video game well.....


Your argument defeats itself. Since I'm already well off, because i put in effort and time and made myself richer than most others, why should I care about what's good for an average guy who doesn't care to put the same effort and time in the first place. Everyone could be rich but #effort & #time are two alien aspects of life to mediocre population.

Apropos, everything should be free for everyone to have ultimate maximum fun, no work - just fun. It's you capitalists and jews blabbering about value of this and that who don't get it and are holding the world back from evolving into its greater version altogether.


This isn't about effort. CCP made a disasterous change when they changed fighters, and players used this to hyperinflate the money supply in EVE. CCP are now fixing this problem, and the (average of 27 years old) man children who got used to printing isk are pissed off that CCP is taking away the mistake they are exploiting.

It's just a video game, but the response people are having shows IMO who people are crappy IRL and why another asteroid slamming into the rock we live on might not be a terribly bad idea.


CCP is attacking isk, only shows they also don't understand anything. Value of money is arbitrary. In multiple rorqs I couldn't care less about money, I build all I need, my time spend in ore sites is translated directly into ships and mods by-passing money completely. Everyone could have rorqs, build their stuff, market is irrelevant and so would be isk. Only to get every miner into rorq and every ratter into super (cause drops/salvage=rigs).

The only healthy system is the one where money becomes irrelevant. In systems where money is relevant in any way it holds everything else hostage to its value and is subject to manipulation.
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1257 - 2017-06-10 17:14:35 UTC
Legit what Mary Timeshift Jane is on about, long-term goal for me is just to acquire all the BPOs, ALL THE BPOs, invent as many T2 BPCs as I can and use isk to support the rest and just build everything I need in-house with as little reliance on the market as possible. That goal fuels every other decision I make in the game.
yogizh
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#1258 - 2017-06-10 17:16:15 UTC
This is getting better and better, found at least 15 various changes that would make way more sence than what CCP came up with. Employ some of those posters.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1259 - 2017-06-10 17:23:26 UTC
Devon Stone wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Actually, I agree. Nerfing the DPS is too heavy handed. Something has to be done, but this is probably not it. Every player who has a carrier and uses it just for PVP is screwed over by this. Same with players with supers. They too get screwed if they are just using it for PvP.


Goon and surrogates crying again, where did the drone touch you?

PVP as in you sitting in your POS bubble cowering goon? Or when your meat shields failed or fled you cowering all over the map station camping?

The only thing goon and alts are concerned about is ISK and the RMT they make from it.

So go ahead goon, tell us where the drone touched you cause you were all for drone nerfs.


Your post is very muddled...on the one hand you are implying that because I am in GSF I am interested in only making ISK. On the other you are implying I hate drones and ratting even though I agree this nerf is probably not the right way to go regarding the flood of ISK flowing into the game and potential bad effects that could have.

Maybe you should sit down with an adult and have them help you figure things out.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ezio Sotken
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1260 - 2017-06-10 17:24:11 UTC
So, lets analyze end game content

Lv5 missions - decent option but most ppl hate missions with a passion and will not grind enough to get there.
Incursions - has not had a big change since the dawn of the ages, still a lucrative avenue if you have the time and patience
Null sec mining - the rorq is getting nerfed to the point it may only get used as a mobile ore compression ship in the forceable future, hope you kept your hulks
Null sec anomolies - aka carrier/super ratting. Kiss it goodbye
C6 WH sleeper sites - Only a handful can even run these because of time required plus everyone must be online at specific times to make it work.

So, what will be left?

Lv5's, incursions, and sleeper sites after this series of nerfs.

Guess end game content is no more again.