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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Mary Timeshift Jane
Doomheim
#1221 - 2017-06-10 15:55:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mary Timeshift Jane
I like how CCP made my first-time payment into recurring one without letting me know, and then I was wondering who stole my money from my account. It made me so angry, when I found out they did I swore to never pay irl $ to them again.
Just be happy I play the game and provide content for those who are willing to pay you anything.

KTHXBAI
Rah McGee
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1222 - 2017-06-10 15:55:40 UTC
Kaze Mester wrote:


We will see what ship gets the nerf next...guess T3's.


Yes, and no one threw a tantrum like that. Yes, t3cs will get a nerf but it doesn't matter because of the fighter nerf.
Tobias Frank
#1223 - 2017-06-10 16:02:13 UTC
Rah McGee wrote:
Kaze Mester wrote:


We will see what ship gets the nerf next...guess T3's.


Yes, and no one threw a tantrum like that. Yes, t3cs will get a nerf but it doesn't matter because of the fighter nerf.


So, T3s are exclusively used against carriers?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1224 - 2017-06-10 16:04:48 UTC
Kryas wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Ralph Shepard wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.
This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.
We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


If you truly wanted to do something with isk generation, you would fix incursions.
Which means this is just an excuse from you.


Incursion payouts are a fraction of pirate bounties.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png

But please keep up the histrionics.


Correct me if I'm wrong but incursion rats have bounties on them as well? That graph just shows the payout from incursions. Incursion bounties would be included in the bounty total because.... well, they're bounties?


No, I don't think so.

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Incursion_sites
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Incursions

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Krieg Austern
#1225 - 2017-06-10 16:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Krieg Austern
I have 3 accounts. I pay for 3 accounts with a sub. I'm not a pvp pilot, but don't mind trying.

I rat to be able to buy ships to try out. I spent months on training into carriers, and all the supporting fighter skills, because it was a game goal for me. I buy ships for me and for my corp mates so we can all have a good time in eve together. Ratting pays for that. Sure, I could grind out a plex for each of my accounts each month if I wanted to, but I believe in supporting CCP, the game is not free, and if they work hard to provide us with a gaming environment unlike any other, please, take my money.

This move though, it's so blinded... you provide the players with economy stats, you can see where money is flowing like an open tap, but rather than taking a step back and seeing what can be done to the environment that provides the isk rather than the tools, you take the easy way out.

There's been many great suggestions here - put gates on certain pve sites, buff the npcs, scale the site spawn rates. But no, you just change 2 numbers in the ship configuration database and call it done. What's worse, is you don't just change the numbers incrementally by say 5%... your answer is "hmm, too much isk flowing, let's stem it by 30% that'll fix the economy". Yeah let's see how that works out.

For all the discussion this has generated, a whole one CCP employee has chosen to reply (on reddit), and that reply was filled with nothing but misinformation. It was corrected later, but it's a bit late once the horse has bolted.

The mere fact that no CCP employee is choosing to respond on this thread, or many others like it, it's like a slap in the face. We are all here because we love EVE - so why are making it so hard to continue doing so?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1226 - 2017-06-10 16:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Alright, since 99.99% of the people posting in this thread cannot look at the f-u-king data. Here is the latest

MER: in terms of the money supply http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png

Here is the graph of the time series: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png

Note how much ISK was added to the economy in May? Over 64 trillion ISK.

Now, lets just go look back in time at September 2016.

Same set of graphs:

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png
http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9b_isk.float.3.png

How much ISK was added: 11.4 trillion ISK.

Now since most of you seem to be innumerates we are talking about a 6 fold increase in the amount of ISK entering the game.

600% more ISK entering the game.

Maybe this is ham handed, but it is too much ISK entering the game. This kind of trajectory, if sustained would be very, very bad.

Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem.

I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Crash 888
TRINTEX
#1227 - 2017-06-10 16:14:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Crash 888
MONTYJOHN wrote:
when you are going to get 30m ticks most likely post patch and you loose 2-3 fighters per site your going to me making a measly 20m at that point you might as well be in a ishtar imo


A year+ ago the north was full of rr ratting chimeras getting 30mil ticks (probably much worse for most scrubs)

But there was no mass OUTRAGE about that ?

This "nerf" is a return to a baseline normality that existed for a decade plus.
Krieg Austern
#1228 - 2017-06-10 16:16:05 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem.

I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though.


If you read the comments, a lot of people don't have a problem with limiting the carrier areas. By taking this sledgehammer approach to try and stem the isk, they have ruined the ship for pve and pvp.

As I mentioned in my post above - fix the environment NOT the tools.
Laenatus
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#1229 - 2017-06-10 16:20:53 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Alright, since 99.99% of the people posting in this thread cannot look at the f-u-king data. Here is the latest

MER: in terms of the money supply http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png

Here is the graph of the time series: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png

Note how much ISK was added to the economy in May? Over 64 trillion ISK.

Now, lets just go look back in time at September 2016.

Same set of graphs:

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png
http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9b_isk.float.3.png

How much ISK was added: 11.4 trillion ISK.

Now since most of you seem to be innumerates we are talking about a 6 fold increase in the amount of ISK entering the game.

600% more ISK entering the game.

Maybe this is ham handed, but it is too much ISK entering the game. This kind of trajectory, if sustained would be very, very bad.

Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem.

I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though.



And the good people of delve didn't have anything to do with this right? I dont blame you, i'm sure we'd do the same if we could.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1230 - 2017-06-10 16:23:20 UTC
Krieg Austern wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem.

I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though.


If you read the comments, a lot of people don't have a problem with limiting the carrier areas. By taking this sledgehammer approach to try and stem the isk, they have ruined the ship for pve and pvp.

As I mentioned in my post above - fix the environment NOT the tools.


Actually, I agree. Nerfing the DPS is too heavy handed. Something has to be done, but this is probably not it. Every player who has a carrier and uses it just for PVP is screwed over by this. Same with players with supers. They too get screwed if they are just using it for PvP.

BTW, the March 2016 MER and the same graphs,

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70162/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png
http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70162/1/9b_isk.float.3.png

A total of about 23 trillion ISK was added to the economy.

Everyone is so focused on what is "good for them" they are ignoring the wider perspective which is what the devs are paid to do.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Aleverette
Bag ol' Dciks
#1231 - 2017-06-10 16:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Aleverette
Welp, I guess CCP still want us to afk multiboxing.

Yey

#PayMoreSub



As far as I am concerning, the extra isk addition into the economy should mostly comes from new carrier pilots("hey the new carriers look cool I want one" etc.), they are enjoying the game in a new, individually harmless way, yet you CCP brutally kills how most players with a few accounts enjoy the game.

On the other hand, experienced ratters that are already using smartbombs/multi ishtars for years would not be affected at all yet they are still generating huge amount of isk.


Is that how you CCP welcome new-null players? If so, then basically you are killing your own game.

If you reallt want to balance the isk sink, you should nerf all ratting methods at the same time. Sadly, the only thing CCP wants is real $$$, they would not give a damn exotic dancer about how enjoyable their game is.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1232 - 2017-06-10 16:27:05 UTC
Laenatus wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Alright, since 99.99% of the people posting in this thread cannot look at the f-u-king data. Here is the latest

MER: in terms of the money supply http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png

Here is the graph of the time series: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png

Note how much ISK was added to the economy in May? Over 64 trillion ISK.

Now, lets just go look back in time at September 2016.

Same set of graphs:

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png
http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9b_isk.float.3.png

How much ISK was added: 11.4 trillion ISK.

Now since most of you seem to be innumerates we are talking about a 6 fold increase in the amount of ISK entering the game.

600% more ISK entering the game.

Maybe this is ham handed, but it is too much ISK entering the game. This kind of trajectory, if sustained would be very, very bad.

Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem.

I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though.



And the good people of delve didn't have anything to do with this right? I dont blame you, i'm sure we'd do the same if we could.


Look at my alliance....I don't give a flying **** about pointing the finger. My point is that this is not sustainable. It has to change. Yes, this current approach is ham-handed at best. But being a complete moron about it, like most posters are, means that CCP will feel justified in ignoring the idiocy coming from this thread.

Now...pull your head out before you suffocate. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sharnhorst von Deathwish
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#1233 - 2017-06-10 16:28:34 UTC
I just moved a character to a new account and bought it 1 year in cash to move to a rorqual. Salty about that.

I cash injected another 3 weeks ago into a rorqual. K. Salty, but whatever.

Finishing my first super. Now that's gonna take a dunk. K.

I'll be honest. I am one of those that sees no problem dropping a grand on this game a year, because it's fun and I like it. That's where I am in life and it is what it is. But these radical changes aren't the kind of thing that makes me feel all good about the state of the game or enjoy it.

If I don't enjoy it, I won't play it. That's a fact of most people. What's my cash worth to the game? The equivalent of 25 subscriptions a year? Small peanuts unless there are others that are of like mind.

This game isn't and should not be Frigates Best ship Online ad anything else is a tossed

I am rather amused and flabbergasted by the fact that CCP is making such a blatantly corrupt decision to nerf the most active form of isk generation in game, with some possible contendees, and bypassin the brutally broken passive isk rivers that are multi account afk ratters and skill point farms.

Truth be told, I don't care about the afk ishtars. But I do care about the line of thinking.. and lack of morality that leads to punishing active isk generation over passive.

I also have a real hard time coming to terms with this fact. If I put 5 or 6 accounts on field with 70 or 80b in assets at risk and o the proverbial table being wagered to make income... why should someone putting 10 accounts with afk fit VNI or Ishtars at maybe 2b to 3b and infinitely less risk.. make the same amount? How does that make sense?

Its about the account subscriptions isn't it? It's not about carriers. It's not about rorquals

You want 3 times the number of accounts on all in afk fits to make the same isl, so that your online numbers look better.

You guys planning on selling out soon? Looks like it with that agenda.
Titus Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#1234 - 2017-06-10 16:30:09 UTC
LOOK LOOK...ccp dank derp!
lilol' me
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#1235 - 2017-06-10 16:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: lilol' me
what really gets me annoyed is the.BILLIONS.AND BILLIONS of PASSIVE income made by the ridiculous thing called rental. Its outraageous that people.like XIX PL and NC ca take REGIONS and just rent them out for stupid amounta and yet ccp DO NOTHING about it. or create content for goons that drops trillions of isk in molok bpcs
But lets nerf some.income.made.by caps where there is massive risk versus quite frankly not so big reward. That really pi $$es me off
Devon Stone
Doomheim
#1236 - 2017-06-10 16:38:30 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


Actually, I agree. Nerfing the DPS is too heavy handed. Something has to be done, but this is probably not it. Every player who has a carrier and uses it just for PVP is screwed over by this. Same with players with supers. They too get screwed if they are just using it for PvP.


Goon and surrogates crying again, where did the drone touch you?

PVP as in you sitting in your POS bubble cowering goon? Or when your meat shields failed or fled you cowering all over the map station camping?

The only thing goon and alts are concerned about is ISK and the RMT they make from it.

So go ahead goon, tell us where the drone touched you cause you were all for drone nerfs.
Hikryon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1237 - 2017-06-10 16:41:09 UTC
Meh...unnecessary change/nerf...but if you want nerf isk/hour in 0.0...this is the worst option because ishtar/vni/gila are still there Roll


As time goes on, my personal theory that CCP/dev team does not play his game is confirmed...

gg&wp

Hikryon.

http://eve-online-dpar.tumblr.com/
Mary Timeshift Jane
Doomheim
#1238 - 2017-06-10 16:43:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mary Timeshift Jane
Quote:


600% more ISK entering the game.


So what's the problem, everyone gets rich, buys all toys they ever dreamed of and we all can have great time of CAPITAL fun.
Instead you suggest to keep people poor, limit themselves to what frigs? Dessies? Cruisers.. rarely people take BC, and BS not happening on large scale roam unless Alliance OP.

Instead we could all have titans and bash each other left and right.

I suggest you get out of your small mind, small man, small world mentality. We could be living like gods, like we deserve to!
Aleverette
Bag ol' Dciks
#1239 - 2017-06-10 16:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Aleverette
Teckos Pech wrote:
Alright, since 99.99% of the people posting in this thread cannot look at the f-u-king data. Here is the latest

MER: in terms of the money supply http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png

Here is the graph of the time series: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png

Note how much ISK was added to the economy in May? Over 64 trillion ISK.

Now, lets just go look back in time at September 2016.

Same set of graphs:

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9a_sinksfaucets.png
http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70577/1/9b_isk.float.3.png

How much ISK was added: 11.4 trillion ISK.

Now since most of you seem to be innumerates we are talking about a 6 fold increase in the amount of ISK entering the game.

600% more ISK entering the game.

Maybe this is ham handed, but it is too much ISK entering the game. This kind of trajectory, if sustained would be very, very bad.

Perhaps CCP should simple bar carriers and supers from ratting. You cannot warp into the anomaly. That way there is no need to mess with DPS, and we address the ISK problem.

I doubt this will work for many of the entitled self-righteous twats in this thread though.



Meanwhile players invest huge amount of time and real money into those rorquals and carriers which are basically worth less and less.
Who should be responsible for this? CCP is basically flipping off to the dream it promised to us years backwards.

The only conclusion I can make is how shortsighted CCP is in order to make some short-term profit.
Hookaj Haj
HYPERION ROUGE
#1240 - 2017-06-10 16:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Hookaj Haj
The game is about to change drastically with the new moon mining system. Is it really necessary to make significant changes just before this all happens? Players are already trying to figure out how moon mining is going to change nullsec.

STOP MESSING WITH SHIPS AND FOCUS ON THE MOON MINING CHANGES!!!!

If you have to generate RL $$$ for CCP stock more NPC items such as re-releases of limited or depleted items. ie gecko bpc's for plex.

If there is a huge isk faucet plug it with increased Sansha's Incursions in regions with massive output. There will be inherent losses of ships/reduced bounties.... When incursion wormholes open up they should send scouts to tackle ratters.

Create new content. Ratting anoms are old and have had few changes. Randomly generate the spawns within anoms. Increase the number of Electronics Warfare capabilities, TP-WEB-SCRAM-Sensor Damp-Jamming, ***remove rock havens*** they are talentless isk faucets. Increase Wormhole connection possibility based on local numbers/ships in space or with each haven/sanctum ran there is a chance of making a call for wormhole connection .05% so wormhole groups looking for PVP will connect to those high isk generating systems.

Create a Keepstar mod that when activated generates a wormhole (between the two pillars/towers) to a random system with significant pilot activity (100+ and consumes liquid ozone by the millions to open, staying open so long as there is Liquid Ozone to consume using the same formula as for bridging). There could be mods for each size of wormhole and they could connect to known or wormhole space. This would significantly increase PVP activity and create a huge isk sink from the massive amount of combat generated. The mod would require an NPC CONCORD blueprint, significant amounts of strontium 50 million+, NPC dread/titan loot drop parts (jump portal generation parts and siege components in large numbers), and tons of sleeper parts.

There are no active wars which means everyone is building up right now this is the natural process. Pilots will grow tired and bored of isk generation and begin fighting purely out of boredom.