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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Aizec Clark
In Doubt
#1161 - 2017-06-10 12:03:07 UTC
hmmm....... anyone from ccp should check who and in what ratting anomalies. D u know that most anomalies players are making with 3-4 smartbombing battleships? and how much sp players need to get this ticks? sqad of 3 this bs making more, than 120kk ticks - thats 3 times bigger, than one carrier, which can lost fighters and earn nothing. and u dont need to learn more, than 30kk sp - all u need - just plex 3 charachters and learn them 1-1.5 month.
Krieg Austern
#1162 - 2017-06-10 12:05:59 UTC
Kaze Mester wrote:
Lamajagarn McMyra wrote:
Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught.


Yeah...let 10 bs kill my 25b super. Great idea.


I don't think that is a bad premise, you are talking about battleships with multiple weapon systems VS a single ship. It should still take significant time for them to wear down your hp. What is ridiculous is that this single flying aircraft carrier can be tackled by a frigate who can keep you locked down until the big friends arrive.

Serious lack of balance there.
Aries Stark
Black Powder Ballistics
Hole Control
#1163 - 2017-06-10 12:07:23 UTC
Jo Kiyoko wrote:
A carrier once killed my blackbird, the multiple logi didn't even had the strength to repair it, i was so pissed that It destroyed my ship so fast and in a cheap manner. I hope you sissy carrier 'pilots' get what coming to you.



Yeah, those fighters are worth 10x what your blackbird was, on a hull worth over 65x what you ship was. so yeah thats how carriers are supposed to work.
BESTER bm
Doomheim
#1164 - 2017-06-10 12:13:04 UTC
Lightbringer wrote:
Does the stupid faction BS Nerf take into account this just as stupid nerf aswell?


Of course not, Larrakin and Fozzie do not communicate between each other.. why would they, what woudl be the point.. From their body language when on stage it's not unreasonable to assume they are not he best of friends.. at best.
Mariza vonAmdonen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1165 - 2017-06-10 12:18:40 UTC
So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game.
Random Freak
Doomheim
#1166 - 2017-06-10 12:19:20 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.

This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.

We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


After all i've read and the thoughts i've had, i'd like to see a Isk generating breakdown by ship. We can see from the graphs, that isk is being generated from bounties (duh), but what ships are the ones doing so? I can hardly imagine that ships that cost between 2 - 30 Bil (Carriers and Supers) are the main issue when you can have at least a 6th of the income of a capital by only investing a 100th of the isk (Ishtar vs Super) and about a 12th of the time (Ishtar + Drones 5 vs a well rounded super pilot).
Aldent Arkanon
Vulture Enterprises
#1167 - 2017-06-10 12:24:30 UTC
Mariza vonAmdonen wrote:
So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game.


Daily reminder that a decent sized part of us don't even rat and are pissed because they're trying to "balance" carriers and supers over PvE while screwing over PvP.
BESTER bm
Doomheim
#1168 - 2017-06-10 12:24:38 UTC
MONTYJOHN wrote:
ccp has ignored the subtle approach many of us have taken over the years and it would seem the only way to make a impact on the company's decisions is to affect the share holders.

you flat out dont just bite the hand that feeds you


All changes currently happening are driving towards more plex being bought and strengthening the bottom line for CCP. There is a buyout coming for the company and they need to increase their net worth to get he best price possible.

This game has had a good run, it will not be around to hit its 15th year at this rate, especially with what is coming this year as far as a competing game is concerned..


The PVE content is generating too much ISK from NPC bounties
So let's reduce the bounties

Nah, let's nerf the sh*t out of the ships
But how will that reduce the income from NPC bounties, will only take longer to get those

Nah, let's nerf the ships regardless, will also drive up PLEX so there you will get your ISK back and drive buying PLEX with real $$
But why

Because that will then upset a balance somewhere else so we can rinse..repeat..
Cricri Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1169 - 2017-06-10 12:28:54 UTC
Bridge to Me wrote:
Hey CCP.

First and foremost, I play this game to PVP.

I don't have anywhere near as much spare time as I used to be able to dedicate to the game, because real life has been kicking my ass lately, so at best I might get to play for say 10-15 hours a week to spend gaming.

Now, I'm a member of a small nullsec sovholding alliance (~500 "members", maybe 100ish real people across multiple timezones). We don't have SRP (it's simply not big enough for that kind of thing) and doctrines tend to be fairly fluid as we respond to different threats.

As with any alliance in this situation, we have various frig, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser and battleship fleets. Along with entosis, counter entosis fleets, etc.

Due to the number of members that may or many not be available at any one time, people also have to take into account there may just be 8 people in fleet, there may be more when coming up with useable doctrines.

Faction ships have often been used, because well, they tend to put out more damage and be more useable in smaller groups.

Since your announcement on the changes to faction battleship BPC drops, the prices of faction battleships have skyrocketed. So now we won't be running a faction BS comp anymore and have to find something else viable to use.

So, new ship comp to buy? Well, you have to make the ISK for that somehow, time to go grind the (for arguments sake) 300m for a ship or two for this new comp.

Now I hate ratting, but okay I'm going to have to go out and do that to pay for some new ships.

The only worse thing than ratting? Doing it with no engagement in the game. So no, I'm not going to go afk rat in a VNI/Ishtar.

Okay, so I'll go sit in a carrier that involves actually playing the game and having to pay complete attention to it at all times, because now thanks to your last changes if you're not paying attention for more than 2 seconds you can have a fighter alpha'd off field.

If I'm lucky, I might make 30m ticks off running havens (before corp tax comes in to play, that's 10%, so I'm actually making 27m every 20 minutes).

At the moment, that means I need (after tax) 12 ticks to make that 300m. That's 240 minutes of ratting, or 4 hours.
That means I now have just 6-11 hours left a week to spend playing games after ratting.

Now, you're saying you want to reduce the damage of light attack fighters by 20%. For arguments sake, let's say that simply means I make 20% less each tick. I've now got a 24m tick before tax, 21.6m tick after tax.

It's now taking me 14 ticks to make that same 300m. That's 280 minutes, or 4 hours and 40 minutes of ratting. Now leaving me between 5h 20m-10h 20m left to play each week instead.

This isn't even taking into account the cost of replacing fighters you loose in the few seconds you have to look away from a screen due to RL, which means it'll take even longer to make that ISK you needed - plus that's before these changes. After fighters get shot at "15% more" I hate to think what that'll do to how many die each time you rat.

So potentially, I end up having to spend almost as much time ratting which I hate, as I do actually being able to do something I enjoy in the game (PVP).

Not to mention that sometimes those ships will end up dying, and you'll have to repeat the process over again to replace it.

At this point it gets seriously tempting to say you know what? Time to ask CCP to refund the remainder of my subscriptions. I'm just going to spend my gaming time playing PUBG instead.



This
Cpt WhiteEye
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1170 - 2017-06-10 12:34:17 UTC
My answer will be simple. I just realise what i need to do now.
So at current state i can make 90-140m ticks with my Hel.
Lets say 110m avg so i spend a good 2-3 hours ratting and that will make me 330m+If escalation+if faction spawn a little more. I do this every week not so much i know.
If they going to nerf it i will probably do it 3-4 hours a week for the same profit.
Will the plug the faucet? No.

But i wont stop there. Right after they implement this im going to rat as much as i can. All my free time i will be ratting in my Super and will probably make 10x the amount of isk.

So from myself insted of doing around 500m a week i will be doing 5b a week so CCP will be happy the did nerf it. And it did solve everything.
Chlorax
W.O.R.M-S.W.A.R.M
#1171 - 2017-06-10 12:34:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Chlorax
Stop Ruining The Game FFS! Be honest you are just trying to make the player base pay up.
Zeus Cronus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1172 - 2017-06-10 12:40:24 UTC
I hope CCP realizes that this change does not really address the problems we player currently face most importantly:

a stagnating game.

While the rising ISK from ratting is a problem CCP should address the overall state of the game and I think focus on the "health" of the game not some weird fighter stats. We all now that the current SOV system in combination with citadels and the hard reinforcement and destruction mechanics affect the people overall much more than ISK in the game.

While ISK in the game could lead to problems the current lack of content is killing the game. I think that should be a higher priority and I hope CCP devs will now quickly address SOV and structures and will not wait another year. EVE could be dead by then.
Doomchinchilla
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#1173 - 2017-06-10 12:46:25 UTC
Aldent Arkanon wrote:
Mariza vonAmdonen wrote:
So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game.


Daily reminder that a decent sized part of us don't even rat and are pissed because they're trying to "balance" carriers and supers over PvE while screwing over PvP.

Yeah. I don't even rat. I just pvp.
Karina Ivanovich
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1174 - 2017-06-10 12:47:35 UTC
Doomchinchilla wrote:
Aldent Arkanon wrote:
Mariza vonAmdonen wrote:
So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game.


Daily reminder that a decent sized part of us don't even rat and are pissed because they're trying to "balance" carriers and supers over PvE while screwing over PvP.

Yeah. I don't even rat. I just pvp.


Same

Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
Curant Thanger
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1175 - 2017-06-10 12:52:32 UTC
As above, my only real concern with this rebalance is capitals in PVP...
Relative to other options carriers will still be better isk generation options, if people are still willing to commit the time and concentration necessary.
Belthoz
Minimal Kollektiv
#1176 - 2017-06-10 12:57:02 UTC
Hai CCP

First of all I somewhat agree with those changes and I never krabbed in caps.

The way you communicate with us is just abysmal by any company standard. That 1% of the 1% really shows you can't emphasize with the regular nullsecer and just look at us as numbers. We have endured so many bad changes over the last couple of years always hoping that they will get balanced and redesigned soon™ to the better. The timing and general language used by you recently shows you have no respect for your paying customers. I won't bother listing all the problems and bugs that got no attention over the years because others have probably said them before me and I'm sure you know about them and chose to ignore fixing/redesigning/whatever them.

I play since 2009 and would like to play in the future, but judging by your business decisions lately you seem to cash out EVE and you're starting with nullsec by depriving us of any motivation and content to do anything more than afk rat.

CCP please don't kill EVE, it's the last standing mmo still worth to play.
Cricri Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1177 - 2017-06-10 13:06:34 UTC
So now with 60 pages of replies and X number of deleted posts:

Yeah I read the infamous 1% post on Reddit.

But I would like a formal reply from CCP on all this.
Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
#1178 - 2017-06-10 13:07:41 UTC
Mariza vonAmdonen wrote:
So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game.



Do you own a carrier? Are you aware of the SP and isk involved in them, or a supercarrier? Are you aware of how easily both of these ships are rendered pretty useless and were already broken? Do you think that if the very known issues with them were also being fixed that people would be happier? Do you think that if CCP took proper measures to fix all the issues involved instead of a nerf to the pvp value of expensive and SP intensive ships that are already broken that people would be happier? Your comment brings very little and shows a lack of awareness.
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#1179 - 2017-06-10 13:11:52 UTC
Cricri Amatin wrote:
So now with 60 pages of replies and X number of deleted posts:

Yeah I read the infamous 1% post on Reddit.

But I would like a formal reply from CCP on all this.



Replying to a ticket takes months for them, why would they reply to this?
Mariza vonAmdonen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1180 - 2017-06-10 13:17:36 UTC
Doomchinchilla wrote:
Aldent Arkanon wrote:
Mariza vonAmdonen wrote:
So, CCP shuts down your overpowered ISK printing machines and you start an upheaval. And you people want to co-direct this game.


Daily reminder that a decent sized part of us don't even rat and are pissed because they're trying to "balance" carriers and supers over PvE while screwing over PvP.

Yeah. I don't even rat. I just pvp.


you mean you dont have your alt down in delve ratting, while you pvp in your super?

I understand that some few might be pissed that this affects pvp too, and rightly so. Although, with the amounts of supers in existence, killing content, that might not be that bad. Still its the PvE loss that caused this big of outcry.