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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Author
Aldeskwatso
Primus Societas
#1121 - 2017-06-10 09:39:12 UTC
Objectless Hatred wrote:
Aldeskwatso wrote:
Any activity that generates excessive amounts of ISK compared to its exposure to risk should be attempted to be rebalanced. So if carriers/supercarriers can be used to make it way to easy to the point it is throwing off a healthy balance between risk vs reward etc. they should be rebalanced somehow to counter this kind of abuse. I understand why some get salty if their cashcows get hurt by this but there is a bigger picture here. It's challenge. In my oppinion its still way to easy to make things easy for yourself to the point ISK is never an obstacle. But it also takes away a lot of challenge. And for me nothing kills a game more then lack of challenge. As a result I avoid activities that abuse an inbalance to generate my ISK and this forces me to look at other means to support myself. And that has changed my outlook on the game a lot in the best way possible. If I didn't do this I would've quit the game because of it.

So I for one am happy CCP does something about these things. And I'm sure those that aren't happy about it now will adapt and gravitate towards the next best thing. As for PvP use. It will likely change but same there as well. If the changes make them obsolete all together I'm sure it will get fixed. And should be fixed. But give people time to come up with creative adaptations.



Abuse? I guess legitimately using a carrier/super to rat in is abuse but running incursions for 23 hours a day in a blinged ship and pod in the safety of high sec with ZERO risk is not abuse...


It might be legitimate but its being used on a scale never intended and causing problems. Thus the need to rebalance. Nobody is at fault here even tho they feel they are being punished for it. And for the record IMO incursions in highsec tend to pay out to much as well. Those can be toned down a little to. But that isn't the subject here. So not going into that further. I'd put some more faith into the resourcefullness of the average eve player to figure out new methods of maximizing ISK p/h. If that's their measure of success. To me its more about how I earn my ISK instead of how much.

The biggest obstacle you'll encounter doing anything is yourself.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1122 - 2017-06-10 09:40:26 UTC
Kryas wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but incursion rats have bounties on them as well? That graph just shows the payout from incursions. Incursion bounties would be included in the bounty total because.... well, they're bounties?

No they don't, and before you start talking about mission bounties as of a few months ago 92% of all bounties came from Null. Oh and don't forget that over 50% of the commodities isk faucet was also coming from Null from Overseer effects.

So that 30 trillion or so spike in the last 6 months or so is almost certainly entirely carrier ratting.
Somi Zulfi
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1123 - 2017-06-10 09:41:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Somi Zulfi
Fix the cancer-sov, so isk can be spent on war. You were told this was cancer by CSM and many of the FCs back then, you chose to ignore it.

Get your priorities straight.

Citadels are the cancer currently, Moons are content generators, which you are going to go ahead and mess up too.

Nobody cares about Ishtar or Vexor new models and skins, stop wasting dev time on things that arent the pain, at least right now.

Will there be penalties for people who exploited ghost training? Instead, rest of the eve got penalised and skill queues were stopped. Simply outrageous.

There is only one way to explain this poor prioritization of dev time, (i) you guys want to cash out or (ii) whoever is running the show has total disconnect from the game (iii) Utter incompetence.

Choose any one.


--

There is indeed a problem of isk inflation due to increased isk generation and its obviously not healthy due to ratting and mining, but there were better ways to nerf the carrier-and-above-level instead of nerfing the PVP aspect of it.

You just chose the way where you had to modify the least amount of lines in your code so people can back to integrating new Vexor model
C0ATL
Renegade Stars
Stellae Renascitur
#1124 - 2017-06-10 10:14:40 UTC  |  Edited by: C0ATL
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Kryas wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but incursion rats have bounties on them as well? That graph just shows the payout from incursions. Incursion bounties would be included in the bounty total because.... well, they're bounties?

No they don't, and before you start talking about mission bounties as of a few months ago 92% of all bounties came from Null. Oh and don't forget that over 50% of the commodities isk faucet was also coming from Null from Overseer effects.

So that 30 trillion or so spike in the last 6 months or so is almost certainly entirely carrier ratting.


I am sure it has nothing to do with alliances recruiting Alpha chars and instructing them to get into VNIs and AFK rat. Those Alphas end up making money by ratting all day, having a begginer's patience to endure an activity that is still new to them for hours on end...and later move into Ishtars because its the same mechanic they know, but with better profits. Only two days ago I was speaking to one such character who was expressing his regret for picking Amarr instead of Gallente...because he "could not be lazy with drones" as his fellow mates with which he joined the game.

Not to be missunderstood: Carrier ratting reward has increased with capital changes (from 35 to 50 mil on average), but at the cost of decreased survivability and a complete inability to multibox or be AFK while doing it. Thus, all alts that were AFK ratting in carriers became useless or passed into Ishtars while carrier mains got rewarded for their dedication to being active and high-APM new mechanics of carrier ratting.

Don't even get me started on the fact that PVP nerfing due to PVE reasons is another rage-inducing display of stupidity to begin with.

Instead of coming up with constructive ways to deal with the issues, devs have been dropping heavy handed nerfs on their go-to scapegoats ever since those initial changes. People have finally had enough and that's the reason this post is raking in hundreds and hundreds of angry replies to CCP's reasoning.
Ti'El
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#1125 - 2017-06-10 10:18:16 UTC
Unless, CCP's making fighters invulnerable... LOL
Mashie Saldana
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#1126 - 2017-06-10 10:19:43 UTC
**** dude, I just realised, I have been acknowledged by CCP themself that I am the top 1% of the 1%. That's it, I have really won EVE this time I can unsub and move on, thanks CCP.
Von Jovhian
Doomheim
#1127 - 2017-06-10 10:22:30 UTC
Wow. Genius. Pure genius...

Instead of reducing bounty isks or raising rat hps just nerf carrier and supercarrier dps.

CCP you are in a miserable state. Just plain miserable...
Neepthys
CatCo. Inc.
#1128 - 2017-06-10 10:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Neepthys
Yes, well this is kind of the main reason behind the long grind for a carrier / super. If players would want to make less isk, they would have opted for a VNI or an Ishatar or a BS.
Cpt WhiteEye
The All-Seeing Eye
#1129 - 2017-06-10 10:26:38 UTC
The 1% of the 1% is probably from
All the characters ever created in eve
VS
Supers ratting in the last 1 day.

Was there an official reply to this shitstorm yet?
Do they consider dropping this patch and rethink their way of approach?
Or the case is they dont give a **** what we think?

Id like a CCP member to start streaming in the next 2 day with a Super carrier ratting with it for at least 3-4 hours straight. That would probably teach them how easy and fun it is to do it. All you have to do is compare how much time energy isk you spend to get in different ships and how much they earn. It really is not hard to see that getting in a Super and spend time ratting with it should earn you what you get now.

The income you get from this activity is pretty linear with the risk/effort you put in them but correct me if not. Nerfing only the top method is shiiting on thoose who spend the most getting there.

And not only nerfing its PVE effectiveness but overall shitting on carriers again and again makes me wonder if we should use theese ships at all or just put em in the same group where AFs are or other unused ships which got nerfed to death.

Yet they fail to see that Citadels killed content. Theres not even station games anymore. And you can **** a citadel out for 1b or even less theese days which makes SOV the most ****** aspect of the game. Maybe think about the 3 hrs/week timer on them for starter.

If you want ppl to leave the game just remove all 0.0 combat sites entirely. Im pretty sure its faster that way then nerfing ships 1by1 and removing pvp content from the game.
Cismet
Zero Tax Fun House
#1130 - 2017-06-10 10:33:22 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Kryas wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but incursion rats have bounties on them as well? That graph just shows the payout from incursions. Incursion bounties would be included in the bounty total because.... well, they're bounties?

No they don't, and before you start talking about mission bounties as of a few months ago 92% of all bounties came from Null. Oh and don't forget that over 50% of the commodities isk faucet was also coming from Null from Overseer effects.

So that 30 trillion or so spike in the last 6 months or so is almost certainly entirely carrier ratting.


I should really post on my main, never intended to post on him, went from the wrong browser.

This doesn't change that 1% of 1% (in any given day 30 people?!?!) is somehow responsible for 90% of the amount? Is it feck. The problem is and has always been Ishtar/VNI because they are so efficient at ratting almost constantly, there's very little downtime between sites as they warp fast and you can just sit there all day with a beer and/or book and just rat. The thing is, CCP want us to believe that the problem is carriers/supers but you're earning realistically 4 times the amount of an ishtar (My ishtar can happily pull 20-25 million ticks and I rat while paying attention, I just fit lazily)

But the implication being that there's only 4 times the number of ishtar's/vni's to carriers? I call nonsense. I would be surprised if the number of Ishtar/VNI's to Carriers was less than a 100-factor differential. Now assuming there is 100 time the number of VNI's/Ishtars to Carriers/Supers and assuming a 3 times amount on average (Carriers pull in around double and supers seem to get around 4x so averaging at 3 times across the board is not an unreasonable assumption), Ishtar's/VNI's are responsible for 33 times the amount (100 times the number of them/3 as they earn 1/3 of the amount on average).

Now, CCP has refused to engage with the community and hasn't provided the Raw data on which they have based these changes. They also haven't provided any reasoning behind why the specific numbers were chosen for the nerf and have in fact tried to deliberately present overinflated figures and the highest possible number they've seen in the dataset, completely out of context to try and support a badly thought-out, knee-jerk response.

There is nothing wrong with ratting in a carrier, if the ISK faucet needs nerfing then do it with diminishing returns on bounties as has previously been mentioned. It'll hurt the AFK ratters more and provide the required dampening of the ISK creation that CCP are worried about.
Jone Sad
Doomheim
#1131 - 2017-06-10 10:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jone Sad
Ok CCP. Less accounts, means less money. You wanted it - you will get. All supers and carriers will go offline on this "feature". Play alone this "world" you created.
iFars
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1132 - 2017-06-10 10:38:01 UTC
T3 The cruiser with all modules costs 340, after your announcement of its "improvement", it has significantly fallen in price. The price of Tengu fell from 125 to 111. If you believe only graphics (like you do) - it turns out that a big danger for EVE - is the developers. They all do so badly that only announcements of their actions harm more than inflation.
Rolling Gigant
All Consuming Darkness
From the Void
#1133 - 2017-06-10 10:41:06 UTC
Ok this means EVE is not game for me. I dont have time to spend on things that you will nerf on end. Was thinking to skill up for carrier but after this i can only unsubscribe.
Aeryn Atropos
ISSD Holdings
#1134 - 2017-06-10 10:42:22 UTC
The problem is not the production, the problem is the lack of destruction.
Captain Wreck
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1135 - 2017-06-10 10:42:49 UTC
Keep up the good work, CCP.
And by good work, I mean alienating your player base and then wonder wtf is going on.
I'm holding off on re-subbing my 3 accounts. If the patch goes through on tuesday, I'm done.
Nice timing, too. You fail to address an economy breaking issue for 6 months and then this.
Maybe soon you'll get what you want : f2p p2w game. Enjoy your earnings, doubt they'll last long if you keep this going.
Dan Sever
Weird Wanderers
#1136 - 2017-06-10 10:46:16 UTC
Zero Davahum wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen

CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry.

The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit.

Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored.

As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track.

I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. Big smile
Captain Wreck
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1137 - 2017-06-10 10:52:14 UTC
Dan Sever wrote:
Zero Davahum wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen

CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry.

The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit.

Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored.

As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track.

I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. Big smile


I find it funny that fielding a ship that's worth at least 25b when fitted (not even counting fighters) should not be able to make substantially more than a 100m ship. Also, makes TOTAL sense to balance capitals around PVE while affecting PVP capabilities.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1138 - 2017-06-10 10:55:17 UTC
Dan Sever wrote:
Zero Davahum wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen

CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry.

The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit.

Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored.

As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track.

I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. Big smile



Have you actually tried carrier/super ratting or are you just trying to be edgy? Unlike drone boats which scale quite well (especially in the north west with amazingly convenient rats) each player can fly a single super or carrier to rat in.

At least the nerf will not affect PvP as fighters are already worthless in TiDi.
Dan Sever
Weird Wanderers
#1139 - 2017-06-10 10:56:55 UTC
Captain Wreck wrote:
Dan Sever wrote:
Zero Davahum wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6g99i4/unsub_if_you_want_ccp_to_listen

CCP does not care about player feedback, this is true with every business even outside of the video game industry.

The only time they will care about something they have done is if you, the player stop paying for subscriptions, stop buying PLEX and other currencies and stop playing EVE. CCP are much more likely to listen if the controversial change to gameplay causes a loss of profit.

Unless every single one of you who has compalined about these nerfs stop giving CCP money. CCP will not listen to anything you have to say, you are being ignored.

As much as it sucks, we have to relise that as true with every company, CCP cares about profit from their products and nothing more, if you don't like a change they make, stop giving them money, when CCP notices a massive drop in profits, then they will start to care about player feedback and start doing the things you wan't them to do so they can get profit back on track.

I find it funny how few super pilots are desperately trying to make non-super pilots follow them in their protest against CCP taking their isk mountains. Big smile


I find it funny that fielding a ship that's worth at least 25b when fitted (not even counting fighters) should not be able to make substantially more than a 100m ship. Also, makes TOTAL sense to balance capitals around PVE while affecting PVP capabilities.

This: "Also, makes TOTAL sense to balance capitals around PVE while affecting PVP capabilities." is the point I also agree on. However when I see all these posts from super pilots proposing to decrease overall bounties (for all ships) or increase rats EHP, it makes me lose last sympathy for their lose. At the end of the day the problem is the HUGE number of super ratters. Although, yes, its a CCPs fault with their skill injectors etc.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1140 - 2017-06-10 10:57:19 UTC
Captain Wreck wrote:

I find it funny that fielding a ship that's worth at least 25b when fitted (not even counting fighters) should not be able to make substantially more than a 100m ship. Also, makes TOTAL sense to balance capitals around PVE while affecting PVP capabilities.



There are no PvP capabilities, damn things just don't work in TiDi. Last time around the only way to fire a new volley (after the initial one) was to recall the fighters and then relaunch them, get one off then repeat. At least the MWD is stuck so they move back and forth reasonably fast.