EVE General Discussion

When writing :words: on the internet it really helps if you sum up your thesis in one sentence at the beginning of the post. I think yours is something like 'darius lost a ship in an ad-hoc shitfleet therefore incursions are really dangerous', but it's hard to tell.

Once you have your thesis, then you use supporting arguments. These are the things that are appropriate to be of paragraph length.

Troll thread is full of troll, adding my voice anyway.


Vanguards are too good. They have bread over-specialisation and need to be addressed. For just a base line example, a vanguard is worth 10mil isk, an assault, 18mil, and a HQ 31mil. This meens an HQ site is only worth 3x more isk than a vanguard and takes roughly 5 times as long to complete. Either the isk gained from assaults and HQ's needs to be buffed up or a better solution would be to reduce the payout from vanguards by about 20%.

Vanguard sites should also be tweaked to reduce over-specialisation. Nation Commander Outposts should include more cruiser and at least one battleship sized target, while Override Transfer Arrays should have their spawn mechanics changed to require the destruction of all Auga Hypophysis so that more than the destruction of 3 ships is required to complete the site. Nation Mining Colony's are teribad and the lyavite should be removed in favour of a destructible pressure silo to complete the site.

Assaults are probably the best balanced of all incursion sites. The only thing I would change is to allow ships of any size to use either gate in a Nation Consolidation Network.

HQ site's are about as interesting as watching paint dry. The only thing that makes them more fun than vanguards is having 40 people to talk to over comms. True Creations Rebirth Facility and True Power Provisional Headquarters are both just one long POS bash. True Creations Rebirth Facility is at least made interesting my the re-spawning mechanics of the site, but the alpha damage on warp in is so horrific most people dont want to run them.
True Power Provisional Headquarters are just bad. You spend 20 min moving through gates then another 20min just watching your guns cycle. Would it be possible to replace the entire last room in this site with like a carrier fight or something? With stuff re-spawning while you fight the carrier. Maybe have a carrier applying reps to a busted sansha station?


If you listen to a few other suggestions here and remove the ISK payout entirely then some new goodies need to be added to the LP store. There's little in the concord store worth selling and a cold turkey switch to pure LP right now would pretty much kill incursions. Thats not to say it couldn't be done or that its a bad idea, but the LP store would definitely need something better than 6% implants and meta 2 capital mods first.

Lastly, and this isn't exactly a little thing, but lastly, it would be pretty awesome if incursions could be made more disruptive and more dynamic. Right now an incursion just means and end to missions and mining in the area, the mothership spawns when the bar is made blue. The status bar itself doesn't actually represent how much of an impact the Sansha have, its just a debuff that goes away with time.
A better system might be to have more Sansha gate/station camps with a big red bar, to have concord rats show up and fight the sansha rats as the bar changes to blue, to have the mothership spawn more intelligently and to have it be a big thing, with the mothership providing a buff to the rate at which the influence bar changes and thus the rate at which the sansha are reinforced.

To quote Ammzi:
"An interactive battlefield where the incursion rats also spread themselves to surrounding systems/gates/celestials.
An incursion where all classes of systems are being fought in and no one left alone on the sideline.
A more immersive gameplay and realtime decision making for who to primary and what strategies/ships to be used. "

I still think some interesting sparks will fly if the mom has a despawn timer and if not destroyed in that time, ALL ISK and LP payouts do not happen.

Be even more "sparky" if only the people who were involved in the mom destruction got their ISK and LP.

Yeah I'm an *******.

I'm sure it was a wonderful post, whatever it was about. I am sorry for my obvious inadequacies and promise not to encourage clear and concise communication in the future.

I'm sorry, I really would like to know what the post means but my mental capacity is just inadequate.

oh could you try to understand these two simple sentences - use Google define for the big words.

The risk/reward paradigm is not broken by demonstrated skill. That paradigm does not include a certainty of loss,
only a risk of loss.

when you have finished reading, turn off your computer and singlehandedly raise the collective IQ of the internet and rid it of one troll.

Not even self-deprecation can mask a fool

The people running Level 4 missions can pull about, don’t know from personal experience but from reading from other people asking, about 30-40Mil. Looking at the math an ok Vanguard FG can pull about 5-6 VGs in an hour, with Bio and refilling the fleet on players. That comes out to 50-60Mil, and with the added benefit of what CCP wanted with bringing people together. Missions can be done AFK, and done on auto pilot. If someone messes up and doesn’t follow the FC, the entire fleet can fall due to NPC’s out DPSing the logi.

You just contradicted yourself in this. “Anyone else who complains about people killing the Mom are ignorant“-“extend the incursion as long as possible is nothing short of an exploit that should be fixed” Incursions were designed to last for about a week. This is the way the players have dealt with that issue and it’s working rather well.
/me-TrollMode InternetCard removed, please stop talking till you have something coherent to say.

This would take away from the base idea of Incursions. I say this because, people are saying that Vanguards “make more than Level 4’s” ATM, but take 10+ people to do. Scouts are so easy that they could do that without the added benefit of having multiple people working them, and farm them faster making a bigger faucet. Also this would make it be even less likely to lose a ship so more grumbling from the builders.
/me-TrollMode InternetCard removed, please stop talking till you have something coherent to say.

Who do you know that run them that fast? Yes an OTA can be 3-5 but not 1-2. That is going way too far to say that, but that's also with a VERY shiny fleet that is set up very well. Also that’s if the Logi knows what they’re doing and can hold the DPS of running three Deltols, something most Logi will not want to do.

It’s not only FC’s Fault, it’s the fact that it does take an hour to form the Assault and HQ fleets, they take a lot of people to do, and they also take properly skilled FC’s to do them without losing a few Bil in ships. Yes, there are people like Holden and a few others that have helped out the two main groups, but it still take the training and trust of the pilots to fly under people that might not know what they are doing.
If we could get people to be less lazy and nut up to taking the job of an FC, mind you, not everyone will follow a knuckle dragger of a person with a few Bil under their pants. We could have more Assault and HQ fleets running.

Post 1
V

Well said, I’ll take it.

Someone else trying to kick over other peoples sandcastles. Can we find a forum post that doesn’t resort to warmongering?

I love this idea, it would help out in a big way to get fleets made for people that know how to run the Assault and HQ fleets. Very good idea.

But, you make no sense in the statement. What is the point in having them go away faster, if you just want them to come back faster? We need to make up our minds people.

Post 3
V

Warmonger STFU!
/me-TrollMode InternetCard removed, please stop talking till you have something not involving warmongering to say.

Post 5: More ranting later. Page 5 and 6 to come.
V
Thank you for reading.

Incursions are the best PVE content in EVE. Do it right, and you’ll get new players. Do it wrong, and you’ll lose players. Tread carefully.

Specific Suggestions:

Changes should be made in context of the story.

1) Scout Sites: Dramatically increase the value of Scout sites. Scout sites should alert Sansha to the presence and strength of their opponents. If too many scout sites are run successfully, the mother ship does not appear and the incursion ends.

2) Vanguard sites: These should be balanced, but only within the context of the incursion. The payout for Vanguard sites should not be decreased, but their frequency of those sites. This will encourage competition and reduce blitzing/farming. The number of Vanguard sites completed should reduce the system penalties. The penalties should not be reset after downtime. (Ideally, penalties should be reduced to 0 before the mother ship appears, but Vanguards should have no direct influence on when that happens).

3) Assault and HQ sites: These sites should trigger the appearance of the mother ship (assuming the scout sites haven’t been blitzed). The mother ship should appear when a fixed (random?) number of Assaults and HQ sites have been completed. (suggestion: 1 point for assaults, 2 points for HQ. Mother ship appears when RND*50+51 points have been accumulated)

4) Mother ship sites: The presence of the mother ship decreases the system’s security status gradually. If the mother ship is not killed right away, some of the lower security systems in the constellation may go turn to low sec. Affected systems security status gradually recovers after an incursion as Concord re-establishes control.

Some minor changes should be implemented to make these sites more interesting:

1) Rats should be able to warp out of the site to be repaired unless they are appropriately tackled. This will create a more PVP style environment.

2) Spawns should have random triggers and random fleet composition. The probability of a spawn should be proportional to the importance of a particular ship in the rat fleet. The difficulty of the site should fall within a range of total hit points of all of the rats.

3) The difficulty of the site should fall within a range of total hit points of all of the rats.

4) Sites should be difficult enough that some players will lose their ships. Optimal player fleet composition (in terms of survivability) should decrease payout. Suboptimal composition increases payout.

5) Alpha strikes are an acceptable tactic to inflict damage to player fleets. After all, that’s how PVP works, right?

The Long View:

Introduce Blood Raider, Gurista, Serpentis, and Angel Incursions in High Sec. Also, introduce Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar, and Amar faction incursions in Low Sec. Allow these incursions to change the sec status of the affected system permanently (or at least until the next incursion).

Null Sec should be similarly affected by incursions. The presence of Sovereignty increases the likelihood of an Incursion.
Incursions should be capable of changing the political map (NPC Space and Alliance controlled space alike).
Faction aligned corporations should be able to assist the incursion rats.

Traditional missions should be replaced with mini incursions. L1 is soloable by new players. L2 is soloable by intermediate players or small gangs of new players. L3s can be completed by small gangs of intermediate players or medium gangs of new players. L4s require medium gangs of intermediate players. L5s require capital ship support. The number of missions completed increases (or decreases) the likelihood of the occurrence of an incursion.

Sleeper incursions can take out the occupants of wormholes. Also, sleepers, who are mildly annoyed with the activities of human infidels can stage incursions where their WH’s spawn and change the sec status to null/unoccupied.

Just some random thoughts. I’ve been thinking about this way too long.