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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#761 - 2017-06-09 19:04:01 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Panther X wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Vaktul wrote:
This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch.

Yup Yup yup


Nope nope nope.

This is patently ridiculous.

First of all, the two situations are not remotely comparable, nor are they at all related.

Ghost training absolutely should be punished in some way (I'd start with an outright deletion of all earned ISK and take it from there), but that has nothing to do with this.

You're not being punished. It's simply necessary, for the health of the game, to reduce the inflow of ISK from carrier ratting. vOv



Then just make havens and sanctums gated deadspace. Carriers can't go in. Problem solved. If that's what the problem is? Carriers are still pvp machines, fighters still do capital level damage.

There are better ways of fixing issues than the nerfhammer.


I don't disagree with that, and said as much upthread. The nerf to carrier ratting seems appropriate, the nerf to carrier PvP power seems heavy-handed and unwarranted (at least at this magnitude).


I'm a bit concerned about the pvp thing too. But gates would make anomalies too safe, and the last thing any part of EVE PVE (especially null sec liquid isk spewing anoms) needs is more safety.

They put gates on Havens and you'll see me doing nothing but Havens with Multiboxing my mach and 2 FoF/Sentry drones rattlesnakes and running away as soon as anything appears on d-scan. Additionally I could probably kill a Tackling T3 in a gated haven before his friends could arrive with as much DPS as I have, and gated means dead space so no cynos in a gated haven/sanctum (as I recall, if they don't make it deadspace then people can just warp in from normal space defeating the purpose of the gate, probably a legacy code thing).

I know people think gated anoms are a good idea but that's trying to fix a symptom when you know you have a cure for the disease but don't want to use it. The fighters caused the problem, so the fighters are getting fixed.
Duke Heuer
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#762 - 2017-06-09 19:06:13 UTC
6 accounts unsubbed.....end of summer is the end of EVE for me
Beta Maoye
#763 - 2017-06-09 19:07:14 UTC
Alternative to fighter nerf, the game could buff everything else to match the streaming speed of isk from carrier ratting.
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#764 - 2017-06-09 19:07:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
vinihood1 wrote:
So CCP want more AFK ishtars ? Ok Evil


That's a thing that should go if they think too much ISK enter the economy but... :CCP:

CCP is a brilliant group of people. Much wow.
Jeison Frenzy
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#765 - 2017-06-09 19:09:12 UTC
Jeison Frenzy wrote:
This nerf bring Damage bonused carriers at level 4 to the same dmg as an un-bonused carrier.

By nerfing the fighters your unduly hurting the tank carriers the most, when they are not the issue.

A far more effective nerf would be a reduction of the damage bonus of the Nidhoggur and Thanatos to 3% by level, along with a 5% base fighter dmg nerf and IMO the equivalent of 1 T2 Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer bonuses as a nerf to the application instead, this will drive fits to work in more Tracking when shooting sub-caps especially for shield carriers that currently only typically use DDAs in most combat fits.


To continue this, another way to nerf ratting carriers without harming PVP fits as much is to nerf Capital Hyperspaital rigs and lows, or make ascendancy not apply to capitals above freighters.
evan mclean
Doomheim
#766 - 2017-06-09 19:09:16 UTC
they most be reading my post remove my last one lol
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#767 - 2017-06-09 19:09:43 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:



I'm a bit concerned about the pvp thing too. But gates would make anomalies too safe, and the last thing any part of EVE PVE (especially null sec liquid isk spewing anoms) needs is more safety.

They put gates on Havens and you'll see me doing nothing but Havens with Multiboxing my mach and 2 FoF/Sentry drones rattlesnakes and running away as soon as anything appears on d-scan. Additionally I could probably kill a Tackling T3 in a gated haven before his friends could arrive with as much DPS as I have, and gated means dead space so no cynos in a gated haven/sanctum (as I recall, if they don't make it deadspace then people can just warp in from normal space defeating the purpose of the gate, probably a legacy code thing).

I know people think gated anoms are a good idea but that's trying to fix a symptom when you know you have a cure for the disease but don't want to use it. The fighters caused the problem, so the fighters are getting fixed.


...blinks...

Wow, WTF, I missed the gate part entirely when I was responding to that - not sure what happened there. Yeah, I don't agree with that, specifically - I'd have just liked to have seen the issue addressed without a 20-30% (wtf) tweak that affects PvP just as much.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
evan mclean
Doomheim
#768 - 2017-06-09 19:11:26 UTC
I looking to get banned form the game whats the best way to do this?
Actus Reyus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#769 - 2017-06-09 19:12:37 UTC
Just to clarify, I HATE carrier ratting, and if they had found a way to just nerf isk generation from carriers and supers I wouldn't even care. It's that I just spent a large amount of effort to get a super built because I had some time off and now it's getting a massive PVP nerf.
Namii Chikyuu
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#770 - 2017-06-09 19:13:50 UTC
uptick in PVE sense it's not worth mining hmmm so now you are just going to make it so nothing is truly worth the time or risk. You realize you're in a boat middle of the ocean and you're drilling holes in the bottom of the hull. Why are you trying to sabotage the game. Fix ore mineral compositions so mineral market is fine with rorqs mining what they originally were so ships are dirt cheap and more people fly them to get them blown up generating content. Making it harder to get isk or mins is only crippling people from getting into ships and blowing them up. All these things are just going to make things more expensive IE more risk to fly so people will avoid a fight/content. Meanwhile the ones who have already benefited from the past use of game mechanics stay ahead either with crazy fat wallets or MASSIVE mineral reserves that no one has a chance at catching up. instead of leveling the playing field you are literally hollowing out the center where a majority of your players are and leaving once side with Tons of isk and on the other CRAP TONS of minerals. leaving massive status curves no one will be able to climb resulting in frustration/unsubs and you as a corporation losing revenue. I love this game LOVE the people regrettably I do not have the contacts nor many friends but still it seems you're trying to burn your own house down around you and the rest of us. Please instead of trying to bash everything with a poorly aimed nerf hammer leave the mechanics that are being used to balance things out and instead redirect that energy IE letting the isk faucet flow and redo the mineral compositions in null to be pointed at super production so there is less low end mineral waste that ends up in HS and tanking min market. Strive to get ships cheap again so we see more diverse fleets that anyone can afford and because of that they fight instead of run. Hell want to make a knee jerk nerf hit have an event where rogue drones or drifters destroy space preventing jump drives on combat ships from working so null power blocks get broken up.

Long story short stop taking away all the reward while pushing micro transactions for actually playing instead of making the game pay to win just to line your coffers.
Vaktul
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#771 - 2017-06-09 19:14:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaktul
Wolfstorm wrote:
So because CCP releases skill injectors and lets richies buy their way into SP now they broke the ever living snot out of the gameplay balance and instead of admitting it are now going about systematically screwing every player who isn't a power player over, with stupid change after stupid change. I've been making games professionally for over 20 years now and the level of incompetence on display by the design team is terrifying.

This is not acceptable. You broke the game with the skill injectors, the rest of this nonsense is fallout from that horrible choice.


There's a lot of truth to this. I think Skill Injectors should be removed period. First CPP screwed up be introducing them into the game, then they screwed up again by ignoring a game-breaking exploit for months, and now they've screwed up yet again by ignoring people sitting on trillions of ISK worth of "illegally farmed" SP.

But hey, at least life is going to get harder for people trying to make ISK through legit means, right? Who even cares about pvp and structure security? They're reasonable causalities apparently.
Kalchak
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#772 - 2017-06-09 19:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalchak
CCP releases Rorqual changes, Imperium works out efficient methods to mine the crap out of delve, CCP nerfs rorquals. Imeprium moves to carrier ratting, CCP nerfs carriers...

Imperium moves to Hi-Sec Incursions, CCP... I think i just fixed Hi-Sec incursions!
ISD Chanisa Nemes
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#773 - 2017-06-09 19:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Chanisa Nemes
Removed some offensive and off-topic posts. Please post constructively guys Blink

Here are some cute puppies for you all to lift things up a little bit!

[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/bmrxNoGqGNMAM/giphy.gif[/img]

ISD Chanisa Nemes

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Shig Tawny
Ceptacemia
The Initiative.
#774 - 2017-06-09 19:17:13 UTC
Terrible approach. Honesty this is inline with the over simplified/ineffective sweeping nerfs that have been applied this year. Is it too much to ask that CCP take the time to develop intelligent nerfs rather than over simplified (seamingly intuitive) approaches? CCP's response: NERF EVERYTHING, NERF RORQS, NERF RORQS, NERF FIGHTERS, NERG RORQ AGAIN, NERF FIGHTERS AGAIN. Seems like the decision process making behind these nerfs is pretty flawed. If there is a problem in the trends, reducing the entire system with a constant (.7 in this case) doesn't change the trends, just the magnitude. Steering user behavior is accomplished using this focus on trends approach, this nerf is simply cutting the user off at the knees and expecting them to enjoy it. oh and the rorqual pvp nerf, also very half baked.

PS THANKS TO CCP FOR INSPIRING ME NOT TO ATTEND EVE VEGAS!!! mmm money saved.
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
Hatakani Trade Winds Combine
#775 - 2017-06-09 19:18:07 UTC
Petrified wrote:
If the issue is that rewards are too easy, then nerfing something used in both PvP and PvE does not make a lot of sense.
People will simply change to another ship that will give the damage output they desire for running sites.

Perhaps the problem is the availability of sites and the need to improve NPC responses to attack types. Maybe what you really need to do, instead of hurting a tool used for both PvP and PvE, is reduce the number of sites that spawn.

If you reduce the number of sites which spawn, even with max IHUB upgrades, you will help Sov Null Sec by creating more of a demand to expand territory which will create more PvP.

By reducing Fighter damage, you reduce the PvP capabilities of not just carriers and super carriers, but also of Citadels (and fighter support from citadels is laughably weak from my experience). By reducing the effectiveness of a tool used in more than just PvE, you miss fixing the target... which is to reduce an isk faucet.

So instead of reducing the effectiveness of fighters, why not reduce reduce the number of sites instead?


This.
Ebony Texas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#776 - 2017-06-09 19:20:44 UTC
CCP just proved once again that it went from a "we care about community feedback" to a greedy Electronic Arts type company, just sit back and take a look at this june patch.. its full of nerf's to the most popular of ships.. they also oddly enough have pushed Plex and buy plex down our throats right before a HUGE nerf..

and it seems like they're nerf'ing everything to earn income.. nerf on caps, nerf on t3c's, nerf even on damn loot ( they haven't really brought that bullchit up yet.. but just you wait )

they are literally changing the game mechanics on the fly so a person is forced to buy plex.

now this.. yet another change to caps.. cause they cant simply do their math right and seemingly comparing cap usage for all of null sec is the same..

hello not everyone is PL who lives by titan dropping, jet-setting supers, running around in deep systems earning 154mil tics from popping caps in a remote limited system that's off way from every fawking connection in NULL SEC... CCP YOU NEED TO FIX NULL SEC!

you continue gimping us and pretending like ISK is a fawking faucet when in fact it isn't.. WHAT BOUT ALL THAT DARN CAP RATTING GOING ON IN WORMHOLES!>> WHAT ABOUT THAT!... WHAT ABOUT THAT ISK INCOME FROM C5's, C6's what about that!..
Captain Zulu
Perkone
Caldari State
#777 - 2017-06-09 19:20:44 UTC
People dont actually like ratting, personally i'm not a fan of carrier ratting but i have to do it to pay for my accounts and my pvp ships. Now i have to carrier rat MORE to afford to play this game and afford my ships.

Not the best idea to roll this out as summer begins
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#778 - 2017-06-09 19:21:19 UTC
Shig Tawny wrote:
Terrible approach. Honesty this is inline with the over simplified/ineffective sweeping nerfs that have been applied this year. Is it too much to ask that CCP take the time to develop intelligent nerfs rather than over simplified (seamingly intuitive) approaches? CCP's response: NERF EVERYTHING, NERF RORQS, NERF RORQS, NERF FIGHTERS, NERG RORQ AGAIN, NERF FIGHTERS AGAIN. Seems like the decision process making behind these nerfs is pretty flawed. If there is a problem in the trends, reducing the entire system with a constant (.7 in this case) doesn't change the trends, just the magnitude. Steering user behavior is accomplished using this focus on trends approach, this nerf is simply cutting the user off at the knees and expecting them to enjoy it. oh and the rorqual pvp nerf, also very half baked.

PS THANKS TO CCP FOR INSPIRING ME NOT TO ATTEND EVE VEGAS!!! mmm money saved.

I really don't understand why CCP thinks they can continue to make really really bad and unpopular changes and think the game will survive. Look at the concurrent logins. They have fallen a few thousands below the pre F2P release... Like honestly.
Ghengis Khuan
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#779 - 2017-06-09 19:21:26 UTC
Well, that 's how you lose even more players.

Consider that you are having problems with the online numbers and instead creating something that can attract more people to join EVE community, you are actually atempting to expel players from it and you are doing ALL THIS while entering in the summer period...friendly reminder...the biggest part of the EVE community will be on vacations so that's not much for their return.

Well, regarding what you said about having some balance on markets...your eager to nerf the tools that people still have to make ISK in order to balance the market won't affect the big sharks, those sharks who own the markets, the production lines of capitals. That same eager will aftect the link between players and the game, of those who seek to rat all day long, of those who mine all day long, of those who like to PVP in big fleets, small roams, gatecamps, wormholes...

For those same PVPers, cheering in the comments, who seek a nice oportunity to attack the fellow capsuleers trought wormholes because they are the "elite", i'll enjoy when i see that they are going to miss a healthy number of targets in a short period... now you can see a new atempt to kill EVE once again, in a premium spot, ticket free.

BTW, you can always nerf guns and the tank itself, no point to have them, they seem to be OP to me, maybe sticks and rocks work better!

Well CCP, shame to see this happen... (PS: you don't really give a damn about player's opinions)

o7
Vaktul
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#780 - 2017-06-09 19:22:57 UTC
ISD Chanisa Nemes wrote:
Removed some offensive and off-topic posts. Please post constructively guys Blink

Here are some cute puppies for you all to lift things up a little bit!

[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/bmrxNoGqGNMAM/giphy.gif[/img]



Removes off-topic posts.

Makes an off-topic post.

Be careful though, if those puppies are too effective at being cute CPP will nerf them into the ground too.