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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Kahlua Kapre
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#641 - 2017-06-09 17:27:53 UTC
RIP -2 accounts.

Go rip someone else off ******* CCP pubbies
Snape Dieboldmotor
Minotaur Congress
#642 - 2017-06-09 17:27:55 UTC
I though Fozzie was in charge of delivering bad news. Larrikin, you need to develop some flame resistance plating for your internal fittings. Good luck with this thread.
Driczinella
DO.IT
I.N.D.E.P.E.N.D.E.N.T
#643 - 2017-06-09 17:28:08 UTC
Matt McDefault wrote:
Creecher Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
I stated back when the December 07 show came out and saw Guards comments on changing all of pve to make it a sort of "group" experience that this was just a way to force players to spend more real money on Plex. That's all it is at this point. How can you fly doctrines without isk Income? How can you PVP without PVE income? Simple. Eve turns into a pay to play system of Plex. The silly thing is that CCP wanted more involvement in the space groups held and boy they sure got it.

My prediction was CCP would nerf individual PVE streams such as Rorquals and Super ratting which are some of the highest income streams for individual players and had been for years. What CCP fails to realize is that people don't pve for fun in high end groups, we pve to pay for our PVP. When you lose a doctrine ship or a dread or something of that nature in a big brawl (that CCP sort of markets to Bright eyed new players who they pray have a Credit Card and will inject and buy Plex to reach a level veteran player have)

You naturally need to replace it. What CCP fails to realize is in their greed ridden pay to win system of BUY PLEX NOW and ridding Eve of it's pve streams gradually is that now you are truly killing content for players. You give us less targets to hunt, you give us less big ships to destroy because dumb people like to fly big shiny ships, and you further alienate the concepts talked about during the release of Citadel when Supers and Titans were reworked and retooled to give then a new role with very big nerfs to hp and ewar immunity.

Odd how this isn't a dev post on the PvP ability of such ships but rather a economc view. Eve has trillions of isk in it's economy and has for over a decade. Why now the sudden shift towards killing individual income streams?

Because all CCP wants is for you to buy Plex with real money period. First they'll nerf Rorquals and Supers. Then theyll nerf anom repawns. Then they make it where capitals cannot run anoms or level 5 missions and instead encourage "group" pve like those stupid Blood Raider sites that can be ran in frigates as "high end pve" as a way to finally kill individual income. Welcome to the new Eve. Better whip out that credit card.

FYI CCP I've always paid for my 7 accounts with actual money. I hate the idea of having to pve for my subscription and my pve time is spent fueling my PvP for PL and my own endeavours. Keep this up and I think a few of us will just get so sick of the EA like way this game is headed and go find something else to play. Which is pretty sad. Don't make us buy Plex to PvP.


not empty quoting.

I understand that you dont want unlimited isk faucets, but you're doing it the wrong way. if you want to limit rorqual mining, then find a way to make it ******* aids to multibox, like supercarrier ratting is. the problem with rorqual minining isnt that it pays 200m an hour, its that i can run 10 accounts easily making 200m an hour. find a way to stop that, and youll solve your problem. We finally have ways for individuals to make good money in this game and you ******* nerf it. You made it possible for newer/more casual players to be able to effectively grind for their money, and now you are **** canning it. We actually had a way to combat the war chests of ******* PL and NC. and other groups who have corps with trillions of isk that can just passively **** money, simply by actually playing the game. I actually feel like im getting something from grinding in this game, same with my corp mates. if you nerf these income streams itll just feel ******* worthless, and ill just buy plex because i cant be arsed to ******* rat for 45m an hour.

But thats what you want, isnt it? me to buy ******* plex.


This.

I don't plex my accounts and I pay CCP hundreds of dollars a year for the privilege of playing their game. I've bought plex so that I could fast track my ability to get involved in the exciting end-game elements of EVE like caps and supers. I don't think it's unreasonable to get the isk generation one does from a supercarrier when you think about the 26+ billion dollar ship you need to do it and the 30 mil+ SP toon you need committed to that ship. What's worse is that the active forms of ratting like carrier/super carrier ratting are getting a nerf while people who are Netflix ratting in their VNIs/Isktars are business as usual. You're punishing the people who are actively playing the game and putting huge content magnets/assets on the field. I don't see this as a good long-term strategy. What's more, it now takes more time doing the brutally unfun activities like carrier ratting to fund the stuff that actually makes this game enjoyable; the PvP ships we need to buy and blow up. With this nerf, the ratio of time spent pursuing unfun activities in this game to fun activities in this game gets skewered even harder towards PvE.

At this point, it just stinks of a cash grab to get customers to drop even more money on this game in the form of microtransactions on top of a subscription model. At some point I have to put my foot down and tell you guys to take a hike. Therefore, I've cancelled auto-renew on all my accounts and plan to let them lapse, because a balance sheet is going to make a much bigger statement than this forum post ever will.

-4 accounts


**** CCP GREED
Revival Lolloking
DO.IT
I.N.D.E.P.E.N.D.E.N.T
#644 - 2017-06-09 17:28:26 UTC
I've been playing since 2006 and I'm really breaking the hips of these ever-changing and far-reaching changes to the game ... why do not you focus on fixing bugs in this game to make pvp more enjoyable? The rules make it to the players .... do I have to remember the times of "Incarna"? Do you want to trigger a protest like that?
Watch out for what you are doing ...
RB Marketslave
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#645 - 2017-06-09 17:29:53 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
I'm sure no one from CCP will actually read this thread, but this is not how you solve this problem. Here is exactly how you solve the issue that is null sec isk printing issue.

Step #1 . Remove bounties, replace with tags/blue loot/etc that is sold to NPCs for the same value.

TADA! Now people actually have to stop and loot the sites. Or use MTUs which other players can come in and blow up/take!

This will slow down peoples overall income generation as having to actually interact with the wrecks instead of being able to just churn and burn sites.

This change will allow small roaming gangs to actually takes things away from people that just warp out and dock when you hit local. Probe down MTU = Profit.

Step #2. Remove ESS's from the game. Instant 5% isk generation reduction.

Step #3. Increase sales tax to generate more isk sink.


Notice how these changes deal with the actual economy instead of nerfing a particular ship type, that is instantly defeated by a single falcon.

PS. You could also greatly increase the chance of an NPC capital spawn if you're ratting in a capital. Increase the damage on the NPC capitals so they actually pose a threat. I always found it stupid that I could solo the NPC dread in a thanatos with T1 fighters.....and a passive shield tank.


The opinions of someone who clearly has no diea what they are talking about.

1: Everyone has alts who can follow their super around and loot for them, this would do nothing

2: Nobody is high ratting areas even uses an ESS, this would do nothing

3: sure, I guess
Vetus Metallicus
Blue Angels Inc.
#646 - 2017-06-09 17:31:03 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice.


They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post.


Have you actually flown a carrier in PvP before? Thats absolute BS. A rattlesnake now does more damage than an archon...
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#647 - 2017-06-09 17:31:39 UTC
Snape Dieboldmotor wrote:
I though Fozzie was in charge of delivering bad news. Larrikin, you need to develop some flame resistance plating for your internal fittings. Good luck with this thread.


Yea, I hope Larrikin trained Overheat to 5 Twisted
8RU74L
The Edge inc.
#648 - 2017-06-09 17:36:07 UTC
"Supers" should be renamed now because they will be far from superior in any way.
First you make smaller amounts of plex to grab more money via smaller transactions,after that skins are flooding the market,obviusly.

Well how about you guys just remove game time bought via plex and solve the problem,and loose the subscribers in the process,i think you already taking a route to loose players,not gain them.

I m fine with most of stuff you guys did but this is too much.

Instead get some competent people to test the stuff you intend to put in game,before you actually put them in game,take a month of testing,this is a bad move by giving people op toys to make isk then nerfing them (looking at rorq pilots)

Alot of us are using money to get plexes to buy injectors and use them for something we think its gonna make us some good isk and then BOOM nerf incoming.Now you can say that EULA says that you can do what you want,thats right,but you can also stop getting the money because loosing trust from players.

Tell what you want but that is a **** move,now either you have totaly incompetent testers or you do it on purpose.

Also did any of you maybe,just maaaayyyyyybbbbbeeee thought of reducing bounty on npcs instead of killing the ships?
Whats next??? Wormholes....oh wait,Escalations,station trading...list goes on.
GOB the Magician
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#649 - 2017-06-09 17:36:35 UTC
Yet another balance pass that will result in less players undocking ships they enjoy flying.

As a casual player who pays for my account in real money, you're making it very difficult for me to justify continuing to do so. There's no way I'm going to pay for a sub and have to buy plex in order to play. It's just not going to happen.
Xiaodown
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#650 - 2017-06-09 17:36:47 UTC
Let's talk about this money supply issue, CCP.

Quote:

Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.


First off: I'm not your friend, guy.

Second, you are saying that the problem is that the money supply is too big, and the cause is that it's too easy to rat in carriers.
Have you considered that the problem is actually deeper than that?

What if the problem is that there's not currently a reason or a venue for big fleet fights, and thus, everyone has beaten their swords into plowshares for lack of content? People are playing this game, they're skilling up their characters, they're training into the next steps in their Eve career, and ... they have no humans to engage with all of these skill points. So what do you expect them to do? They join the Cold War; they start building up a bankroll for when the content comes back.

Third - what, exactly, is the problem with a large money supply? What are the effects? That people can buy more ships, cheaper, and faster? Only CCP could look at that, and think it's a bad thing. Again, it goes back to lack of content: if there were more big fights, then it would be fantastic that there were more people with more ships that were bigger and badder. And it would be fantastic that people could lose a relatively expensive ship, and get back into another one ASAP, and do it all over again. Big fleet fights drive subscriber engagement as well as generate out-of-game news / buzz, which leads to more subscribers.

CCP, it's almost like you expect this to be a game about grinding and hoarding, rather than about shooting other people's spaceships.

If they you think it should be a game about grinding and hoarding, you should do exactly what you're doing now - nerf all the ways to make lots of money (moon goo, carrier ratting, rorqual mining), make nice ships more expensive (pirate battleships), and make people annoyed at the idea of fighting (citadels and void bombs).

If, however, you think it should be a game about shooting spaceships, you would be making it easier and faster to get into more and bigger and more versatile ships, and then giving people lots of things to fight over and lots of reasons to engage enemy fleets.
Horan Kim
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#651 - 2017-06-09 17:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Horan Kim
I really do hope CCP devs are not this stupid. Shocked
But for some reason, they are not focusing on the underlying issues that are destroying the game. Roll

The problem with all this ISK faucet got worse since the introduction of skill injector/extractor.
It is easy to shape up old, high SP, unfocused characters into many focused characters.
Easier to acquire focused ratting alt, especially carrier/super carrier alt.
Just grab some skill injectors and everybody flies carriers/supers now.
I have seen many newbies go from VNI to Rattlesnake and then Thanatos/Nid in the course of few month.
Before the skill injectors, you have to wait for your ratting character to skill up or buy a carrier character off the bazaar, which require a lot more upfront ISK then buying skill injectors as you go (or a lot more real money to buy and sell PLEX).

Next, the introduction of Citadels also hurt the game by worsening the NULL sec stagnation on top of boring and somewhat stupid sovereignty mechanism (a.k.a. Fozzie sov).
Forming up three times for undefended but TZ tanking, damage capped Citadel is bad. Defended? It becomes a nightmare.
And everybody drops Citadel as they drop their MTUs and mobile depots nowadays. With asset safety, what they got to lose? and what they are gonna do with all that isk that they are making anyway?
Why bother risk going into a war when you are going to face cancer level Citadel bashing among other cancer level fights and Sov grinding? There is 0 driving force to start the war yet so much to lose and suffer for starting one. So people just do roaming and camping and dropping stuff and etc., but no full-scale campaign. Meantime, people are ratting and mining more since there are nothing else to do.

Last, removing Aurum in-game and combine it to PLEX and also dividing PLEX into 500 helped the PLEX prices to go up like crazy. So people who want to play the game free have to grind for more isk. Hence, more isk being generated.


All those above reasons became a vicious cycle, making the current situation worse and worse.
More people, including newbies, use carrier/super to rat and nothing else to do, PLEX prices keep going up, rat more, etc.

CCP's solution? Nerf Rorqual!! Nerf Carrier/Supercarrier!!! They make too much iskies!!! Lol

Oh, and I believe at least those changes were the money making changes for the CCP. Lol
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#652 - 2017-06-09 17:38:05 UTC
Vetus Metallicus wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice.


They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post.


Have you actually flown a carrier in PvP before? Thats absolute BS. A rattlesnake now does more damage than an archon...


I'm not saying they are right on that, just that they gave a reason. No need to fly a carrier to read a post all the way...
Texas Queens
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#653 - 2017-06-09 17:38:21 UTC
GoddessOfPeace Ishikela wrote:
So right now carrier can be killed by 5-10 AB fited frigates easily because they have one ̶l̶o̶v̶e̶d̶ hated ECM ship like Kitsune or even griffin with skills at lvl 1 <===== ( coz it's moar than enought for perma jams fighters )

So after your patch, all your carriers will finish like this => How to fly carrier after June patch

This patch is a typical proof where CCP show that they prefer Multi boxers for AFK farm so they can sell more plexes.
But wait ! Alpha Galente clone can afk VNI in Null sec ! So still can afk without plex.

Gj CCP to kill also small entities in low sex who have just one or two carriers for defend their pocket.





You're acting like super ratting isn't a multi-box affair.

1. Super
2. Fax1
3. Fax2
4. Inty to scout sites
5. cloaked alt watching dread bomb systems

may aswell use 2-3 AFKtars instead, its ALOT less effort.
Doss Brannigan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#654 - 2017-06-09 17:39:18 UTC
Driczinella wrote:
Matt McDefault wrote:
[quote=Creecher Virpio][quote=Tara Read]I stated back when the December 07 show came out and saw Guards comments on changing all of pve to make it a sort of "group" experience that this was just a way to force players to spend more real money on Plex. That's all it is at this point. How can you fly doctrines without isk Income? How can you PVP without PVE income? Simple. Eve turns into a pay to play system of Plex. The silly thing is that CCP wanted more involvement in the space groups held and boy they sure got it.


-4 accounts


**** CCP GREED





















































#FUCKCCPGREED
-2 ACCOUNTSEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil



#FUCKCCPGREED
-2 ACCOUNTSEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil
Ghostly Angell
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#655 - 2017-06-09 17:39:47 UTC
so,you spend half a year training carrier and fighters 5 to get 10% more dmg on a normal carrier and now I GET THIS NEWS????????? -20% ????? very bad joke
Romana Erebus
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#656 - 2017-06-09 17:40:05 UTC
Odinessa wrote:
At the rate you are going, you will end up running off most of your player base with these nerfs to fun content. Your real nerf is to nerf the numbers of players, until there are none left.


If most of the player base are ratting carrier/super pilots I'd say we are doomed already.
Romana Erebus
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#657 - 2017-06-09 17:41:40 UTC
GOB the Magician wrote:
Yet another balance pass that will result in less players undocking ships they enjoy flying.

As a casual player who pays for my account in real money, you're making it very difficult for me to justify continuing to do so. There's no way I'm going to pay for a sub and have to buy plex in order to play. It's just not going to happen.


Go Pvp and dumpster thing and scoop shiny loot. A month worth of that pays for plex and is good for you too. Like carrotts or spinach. Lol
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#658 - 2017-06-09 17:43:02 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice.


They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post.


To be fair, the PvP bit seemed an afterthought tacked on to the end in effort to pre-address criticism about the mix of such a broad-spectrum nerf with such dramatically large numbers.

If I read their opening rationale by itself, I would probably expect a 5-10% DPS nerf along with some more PvE specific changes to address the bounties.

A 20-30% tweak is abnormally massive.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Cartras Vokan
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#659 - 2017-06-09 17:43:17 UTC
If anyone at CCP wants to come have an evening of carrier ratting and subcap ratting (and ts3 shenanigans of course) to experience their game, pm me. It often feels like in the past couple years very few actually play the game and decisions are based off of graphs, not personal/team game experience.
Gianni Zuiverloon
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#660 - 2017-06-09 17:43:29 UTC
FIX THE ANOMALIES NOT THE CAPITAL SHIPS.
NEW ANOMALIES FOR CARRIERS ONLY AND RESTRICTED ACCESS TO THE CURRENT ANOMS FOR CARRIERS.

AFTER YEARS OF TIME WASTED SKILLING A SHIP YOU NERF IT LIKE THAT?!? ARE YOU SERIOUS??
GIVE ME BACK ALL THE SKILL POINTS YOU THIEFS.

-4 ACCOUNTS SUB RIGHT NOW.
UNTIL YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND COMPLETELY.

Bye bye