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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Pelennor Swarm
Outer Planets Association
#621 - 2017-06-09 17:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: HankMurphy
edited to be a tad more polite
I rarely post here anymore. But I'll share my tears

when your balance action has a number like THIRTY PERCENT associated with it,.. i gotta wonder you're not balancing but unintelligently overreacting to a problem you don't seem to understand (or care to as is probably the case).

Yeah so, my tears:

I don't even have a carrier, though I had just trained Minnie carrier V (yes, I was going to join a 0.0 crew this summer and try to get into caps more, pvp and pve)
Do I get those skillpoints back? HAHAHA no,

I don't like that just when they make plex more granular (to nickle and dime), they turn around and nerf incomes.

I wish i could charge back the money i spent on this last sale. Lesson learned. I always told myself you start down that road nothing good can come of it (evony got like $70 out of me back in the day too).

I can see exactly how much CCP values what I put into them I suppose with Quant's latest statement. haha got me, good one. In a lot of ways other than insane income (i wished tho) i might be one of the 1% players ccp thinks need to shut up. I guess.

try to come up with intelligent solutions to your problems. this seems like a reactionary easy-out. if the problems are what you say, i can't see how this is actually *fixing* anything. you say we're bleeding out so you're going to put a piece of tape over it?

IF THIS is an INCOME issue, why the hell are you not just nerfing bounties?

you claim this is people in carriers and moms with a dozen accounts and blah blah blah, well I agree maybe yeah that IS A PROBLEM
maybe you should rethink some of this eternal number of accounts online stuff? (we obviously can't do that because as we all know the more accounts the healthier the game is right?)

and really, about the skills stuff. if it's all becoming so high value and liquid, when you yank a LONG TRAIN level V's usability out from under people, shouldn't they get a chance to repurpose those skills? I mean... once you're well into penalty land for injecting anything. haha gotcha train something else seemed more reasonable before it would be NOTHING for you to give that back to someone after a major balance move.

Yeah Quant, i'm a 1%er. I just can't believe how i'd feel if i were a little guy that finally worked his way into a carrier to be laughed off. (are they 5%'s or. 7%s..... where is the 'we care' cutoff btw?) well, i got to edit my comment i'll be nice and give you the same consideration...

this isn't 13km/s crows here. carriers are a huge investment. (or should be and are to normal players)
I'm disappointed you aren't able to be more nuanced here and more certain in how you're going about fixing what sounds like a very serious greater economic problem.
shwing shwing
#622 - 2017-06-09 17:18:50 UTC
While I agree that carriers/supercarriers are too powerful in pvp, I don't believe they are the root of the ISK faucet from nullsec PVE. The vast amount of anoms created by the ihub upgrade mechanics, which constantly respawn as they are finished, are where your isk faucet is.

Scale it back, reduce the number of anoms created and increase the time for them to respawn. Send people back to the actual asteroid belts to rat. Make alliances actually use all this space they're conquering. Get rid of 20-30 jumps of completely empty nullsec space.

Ganja Wheels
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#623 - 2017-06-09 17:18:54 UTC
I agree carriers and supers earn far to much isk when ratting

But I don't rat in them anymore, I only personally care about the pvp application.

If less people rat in them, or less people fly them, then there are less for pvp'ers to hunt. If these carriers all switch to battleships or ishtars instead, they suddenly aren't very appealing to hunt as they aren't worth as much. Content dries off, people get bored and unsub.

These changes are fine for big alliances, they just field 30% more ships to make up for the reduction. It's the little people that it hurts, the small groups brawling in low sec, the ones who don't care abut ratting bounties
Alyen Killer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#624 - 2017-06-09 17:18:55 UTC
CCP NO TENÉIS NI PUTA IDEA, solo digo eso...
Duche Penken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#625 - 2017-06-09 17:19:38 UTC
Person made this changes have some problems with head. Now Carrier will be weaker than Battleship. What is wrong with you guys, are you ready to close this game, is that your goal?
Memphis Baas
#626 - 2017-06-09 17:21:32 UTC
CCP: "NPC bounties inject too much ISK into the economy, so let's leave bounties alone and nerf carriers and supers into oblivion."

Seriously, you're generating memes here, CCP, for smart thinking.
Ashley Miston
Forve Corp
#627 - 2017-06-09 17:21:35 UTC
As you love to make spreadheet about in game economy etc. i'd like to see a spreadheet with how many players canceled their subscription today lol....
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#628 - 2017-06-09 17:22:07 UTC
So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice.
Eli Nalemir
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#629 - 2017-06-09 17:22:51 UTC


(please ccp go fried ur new trainee in ur office thx)
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#630 - 2017-06-09 17:22:53 UTC

I like.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Cricri Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#631 - 2017-06-09 17:23:00 UTC
What ever you do, do not make eve fun!
Hiashi Yenzyne
#632 - 2017-06-09 17:23:22 UTC
I was hoping that with what they were doing with Pirate battleships that maybe they would think to revitalize HACs and certain T1 battleships that rarely get used in the meta anymore. But nope! Now im pretty sure they will find a way to nerf HACs again since the Cerberus is still used a fair amount, and because the Ishtar is used in ratting so much to the point of being more preferable then say... a rattlesnake or a Dominix, who knows.
Matt McDefault
1 Royal Fleet Corps
Pandemic Horde
#633 - 2017-06-09 17:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Matt McDefault
Creecher Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
I stated back when the December 07 show came out and saw Guards comments on changing all of pve to make it a sort of "group" experience that this was just a way to force players to spend more real money on Plex. That's all it is at this point. How can you fly doctrines without isk Income? How can you PVP without PVE income? Simple. Eve turns into a pay to play system of Plex. The silly thing is that CCP wanted more involvement in the space groups held and boy they sure got it.

My prediction was CCP would nerf individual PVE streams such as Rorquals and Super ratting which are some of the highest income streams for individual players and had been for years. What CCP fails to realize is that people don't pve for fun in high end groups, we pve to pay for our PVP. When you lose a doctrine ship or a dread or something of that nature in a big brawl (that CCP sort of markets to Bright eyed new players who they pray have a Credit Card and will inject and buy Plex to reach a level veteran player have)

You naturally need to replace it. What CCP fails to realize is in their greed ridden pay to win system of BUY PLEX NOW and ridding Eve of it's pve streams gradually is that now you are truly killing content for players. You give us less targets to hunt, you give us less big ships to destroy because dumb people like to fly big shiny ships, and you further alienate the concepts talked about during the release of Citadel when Supers and Titans were reworked and retooled to give then a new role with very big nerfs to hp and ewar immunity.

Odd how this isn't a dev post on the PvP ability of such ships but rather a economc view. Eve has trillions of isk in it's economy and has for over a decade. Why now the sudden shift towards killing individual income streams?

Because all CCP wants is for you to buy Plex with real money period. First they'll nerf Rorquals and Supers. Then theyll nerf anom repawns. Then they make it where capitals cannot run anoms or level 5 missions and instead encourage "group" pve like those stupid Blood Raider sites that can be ran in frigates as "high end pve" as a way to finally kill individual income. Welcome to the new Eve. Better whip out that credit card.

FYI CCP I've always paid for my 7 accounts with actual money. I hate the idea of having to pve for my subscription and my pve time is spent fueling my PvP for PL and my own endeavours. Keep this up and I think a few of us will just get so sick of the EA like way this game is headed and go find something else to play. Which is pretty sad. Don't make us buy Plex to PvP.

not empty quoting.

I understand that you dont want unlimited isk faucets, but you're doing it the wrong way. if you want to limit rorqual mining, then find a way to make it ******* aids to multibox, like supercarrier ratting is. the problem with rorqual minining isnt that it pays 200m an hour, its that i can run 10 accounts easily making 200m an hour. find a way to stop that, and youll solve your problem. We finally have ways for individuals to make good money in this game and you ******* nerf it. You made it possible for newer/more casual players to be able to effectively grind for their money, and now you are **** canning it. We actually had a way to combat the war chests of ******* PL and NC. and other groups who have corps with trillions of isk that can just passively **** money, simply by actually playing the game. I actually feel like im getting something from grinding in this game, same with my corp mates. if you nerf these income streams itll just feel ******* worthless, and ill just buy plex because i cant be arsed to ******* rat for 45m an hour.

But thats what you want, isnt it? me to buy ******* plex.


I don't plex my accounts and I pay CCP hundreds of dollars a year for the privilege of playing their game. I've bought plex so that I could fast track my ability to get involved in the exciting end-game elements of EVE like caps and supers. I don't think it's unreasonable to get the isk generation one does from a supercarrier when you think about the 26+ billion dollar ship you need to do it and the 30 mil+ SP toon you need committed to that ship. What's worse is that the active forms of ratting like carrier/super carrier ratting are getting a nerf while people who are Netflix ratting in their VNIs/Isktars are business as usual. You're punishing the people who are actively playing the game and putting huge content magnets/assets on the field. I don't see this as a good long-term strategy. What's more, it now takes more time doing the brutally unfun activities like carrier ratting to fund the stuff that actually makes this game enjoyable; the PvP ships we need to buy and blow up. With this nerf, the ratio of time spent pursuing unfun activities in this game to fun activities in this game gets skewered even harder towards PvE.

At this point, it just stinks of a cash grab to get customers to drop even more money on this game in the form of microtransactions on top of a subscription model. At some point I have to put my foot down and tell you guys to take a hike. Therefore, I've cancelled auto-renew on all my accounts and plan to let them lapse, because a balance sheet is going to make a much bigger statement than this forum post ever will.

-4 accounts
State War Academy
Caldari State
#634 - 2017-06-09 17:23:54 UTC
- 3 accounts
Vladimir Petrovski
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#635 - 2017-06-09 17:24:47 UTC
So...let me get this straight.

  1. CCP makes it easier for players to get into carriers and supercarriers by reducing certain SP requirements;
  2. CCP removes the ability for carriers to field drones and replaces their sole combat ability to fighters, thus actually giving the carriers a true nitch in Eve;
  3. CCP permits players to purchase SP instead of having to actually take the time to earn the SPs (read: pay to win mentality)
  4. CCP nerfs fighters, making them easier to kill, thus attacking the very nitch carriers have
  5. Realizing that they haven't been able to successfully curb ISK-making, they now once again nerf fighters thus nerfing carriers altogether.

If the goal is to transform carriers into expensive paperweights, then that's exactly what is occurring. Carriers are being turned into pointless ships. Ignore the now-relative ease in which you can get into one, if the assault on carriers by CCP continues, there will literally be zero point in actually utilizing one.

I get the argument about "ISK printing", but considering how relatively slow they are, and how easy it is for a 1-2 interdictors to lock one down with a bubble until a carrier-blap fleet arrives, the benefit/loss ratio is now in the true negative. I don't mind losing ships... hell, if you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it, but why make it so that it's pointless to field in the first place?
Lightning Squad
#636 - 2017-06-09 17:24:53 UTC
guess thanas will rain again alliance wide....

can dock em now @least , more shiny stuff docked up ....
Frostys Virpio
Goonswarm Federation
#637 - 2017-06-09 17:25:59 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
So next time you want to clarify that this was mainly a DPS nerf to put Supers more in line with HAW Titans why don't you go with that angle instead of from the PVE angle and have everyone freak out? It implies you nerfed fighter dps solely for a PVE majority. Clarification would have been nice.

They literally said in the OP they though carriers/supers were over performing in PvP and the change would alleviate some of this. Too bad people didn't read all the way to the end of the post.
Anime Masters
#638 - 2017-06-09 17:26:21 UTC
Reverse rat aggro mechanics to encourage more people to hunt ratters

Adjust how local intel works in nullsec/lowsec to encourage more people to roam without instantly being hellcamped

Adjust D-scan ranges per ship hull to limit information and encourage traps and gate camps

Increase real life second to AU warp speed to encourage more people to roam around.

No one likes to warp for an hour just to die 2-3 systems into a powerblocs space because your instantly reported in intel and hunted down.

Erie TehGM
CapF best F
#639 - 2017-06-09 17:26:41 UTC
Now rorqs will do more dps than ratting carriers.

Rorqs in havens new meta.
GoddessOfPeace Ishikela
The KittenSwarm Federation
The Phoenix Aberration
#640 - 2017-06-09 17:27:24 UTC
So right now carrier can be killed by 5-10 AB fited frigates easily because they have one ̶l̶o̶v̶e̶d̶ hated ECM ship like Kitsune or even griffin with skills at lvl 1 <===== ( coz it's moar than enought for perma jams fighters )

So after your patch, all your carriers will finish like this => How to fly carrier after June patch

This patch is a typical proof where CCP show that they prefer Multi boxers for AFK farm so they can sell more plexes.
But wait ! Alpha Galente clone can afk VNI in Null sec ! So still can afk without plex.

Gj CCP to kill also small entities in low sex who have just one or two carriers for defend their pocket.

Because CCP still not started play his own game