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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#301 - 2017-06-09 13:12:05 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Sassura wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.

People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board.
It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted).
This is a good thing.



People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs.


I know that CCP has been heavy handed in the past. BUT it's easy to look at the MERs, see when carriers got buffed, see the explosion of null sec bounty generation, and understand that fighters were the cause of that.

This one time, CCP is nerfing the actual cause of the problem.


If you go one step further and assess what the actual big picture problem is...there is no counter to the faucet. You need a sink to drain it. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, when there is something to spend it on. Right now there is no sink, no overflow tank, no sump pump nor levy to stop the flood. Reducing slightly ( and we are talking slightly) the amount of isk incoming, will still not resolve the issue of too much personal wealth.

Personal, Corproate and Alliance Income tax, asset repossession, removal of insurance payouts, would all be a big step in resolving the personal wealth. Bans of tax evaders, wallet negative adjusting, and forensic accounting could all be used to slow down and control the massive unflux of risk free and risk adverse income streams.

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Faruzen en Divalone
Divalone Orbital
#302 - 2017-06-09 13:12:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Faruzen en Divalone
JC Mieyli wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:

so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable

Go to the last economic blog, read the isk faucet figure. Then also realise that as of I think it was Feb 92% of all bounties come from Null Sec.
Now finally look at the slope of the isk graph in the last month.

Now apply some basic common sense, realise that the isk faucet figure jumped hugely when the carrier change went through and has been hidden for a few months by other circumstance such as the change in what defines 'active' isk, and accounts leaving again after the sudden spike when they returned.

This will only slow down the recent inflation, not stop it by any means, plenty of isk will still be farmed in null and plenty of that from carriers.

sure thats what im saying
but to somehow translate that into a decrease in plex prices is erroneous imo


In open economy like in EVE, if everyone buying PLEX has less money, PLEX price will go down. Sellers will still want to sell it, supply is probably quite constant, but since buyers only have limited ISK, the sellers will have to reduce the price to sell their PLEX. Its really just simple economics and it does work statistically.

Still, I am not agreeing with Fighter damage nerf, PVP should not be nerfed at all! Rats should be harder to kill with fighters and anoms should not be AFK doable.

It SHOULD be harder to make ISK via ratting, because its just bad for economy if its scalable, multiboxable and whatnot. Too much ISK in tha game, not enough ISK sinks.
Ezio Sotken
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#303 - 2017-06-09 13:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ezio Sotken
Burberry Muffin wrote:
Gwinet wrote:
Lucian James wrote:

From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again...
CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money.

Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting.

If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money.

I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately.

#CCPigs
I absolutely agree!


AGREE


The motion has been approved and seconded.

ALL in favor say Aye
Orion Kerensky
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#304 - 2017-06-09 13:14:01 UTC
CCP needs to do a better job at cloaking nerfs directed towards how players make isk. We don't want them to look too greedy as they move towards PTW
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#305 - 2017-06-09 13:15:52 UTC
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
In open economy like in EVE, if everyone buying PLEX has less money, PLEX price will go down. Sellers will still want to sell it, supply is probably quite constant, but since buyers only have limited ISK, the sellers will have to reduce the price to sell their PLEX. Its really just simple economics and it does work statistically.

well its not as simple as you make it sound when you have people investing in assets
then the value of those assets increases as a result of ccp meddling with mineral values
nerfing mining
and then nerfing ratting income

those people with large stockpiles of assetts only see their wealth increase for no reason other than ccp messing with things
and those people will continue to stockpile plex intil demand for plex decreases
and im sure you can figure out what a decrease in demand for plex means
Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#306 - 2017-06-09 13:17:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:


so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable
it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable
it makes isk harder to obtain
and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk


All of these are good things.

When I started ratting and getting 20 mil isk ticks in 2011 I was like WOW, 20 mil. 20 mill per tick back then meant I was RICH lol.

CCP buffed somethings and over time it took more and more and more ratting just to get the same amount of "purchasing power" I had in 2011. Now i got a Rattlesnake that can do 40 mil ticks and the feeling is like "meh"

It won't happen overnight, CCP screwed up when they opened up these big isk and mineral faucets and let them run for so long, be eventually things will settle and PVe activities in null will fell like they are worth it again as you don't have to grind near as much.

As I said, people are just too short sighted to see that this ends up being a good thing, especially for us who rat.


You are still taking too small of a picture to make a valid argument. What about the people in Jita making bank scamming idiots? Why should they continue to rack up huge wallets with ZERO risk? Why should a small percentage alone be forced to surrender their income streams? There needs to be bigger sweeping changes in the game to keep it viable. CCP arbitrarily going after small groups of specific income streams doesn't solve anything. We will always find a way to min/max each meta they come up with, except for a game wide mechanic that affects EVERYONE regardless of income method. The wealth hoarders will have to pay more of course, but that's the cost of doing business.

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Azn Assassin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#307 - 2017-06-09 13:17:42 UTC
Is this a damn joke? CCP we are past April so you can drop the April fool's routine. How about you save everyone trouble and just delete carriers and super carriers from the game. You do this CCP you'll be -1 active subscription here I'll take my second account down. Think carefully before you do this, you will lose subscriptions over taking a cheap way out on a design decision.

Save carriers do not let this design decision stand
Abagah Khan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#308 - 2017-06-09 13:18:23 UTC



Quote:
If you go one step further and assess what the actual big picture problem is...there is no counter to the faucet. You need a sink to drain it. There is nothing wrong with having wealth, when there is something to spend it on. Right now there is no sink, no overflow tank, no sump pump nor levy to stop the flood. Reducing slightly ( and we are talking slightly) the amount of isk incoming, will still not resolve the issue of too much personal wealth.

Personal, Corproate and Alliance Income tax, asset repossession, removal of insurance payouts, would all be a big step in resolving the personal wealth. Bans of tax evaders, wallet negative adjusting, and forensic accounting could all be used to slow down and control the massive unflux of risk free and risk adverse income streams.


this is something ive noticed myself lately. Outside of skins, there is nothing to sink isk into. So i put it in anotehr ship.. or in this case the market, making even more isk that i have nothing to spend it on..
Faruzen en Divalone
Divalone Orbital
#309 - 2017-06-09 13:18:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Faruzen en Divalone
JC Mieyli wrote:
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
In open economy like in EVE, if everyone buying PLEX has less money, PLEX price will go down. Sellers will still want to sell it, supply is probably quite constant, but since buyers only have limited ISK, the sellers will have to reduce the price to sell their PLEX. Its really just simple economics and it does work statistically.

well its not as simple as you make it sound when you have people investing in assets
then the value of those assets increases as a result of ccp meddling with mineral values
nerfing mining
and then nerfing ratting income

those people with large stockpiles of assetts only see their wealth increase for no reason other than ccp messing with things
and those people will continue to stockpile plex intil demand for plex decreases
and im sure you can figure out what a decrease in demand for plex means


Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good.
Dalron
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#310 - 2017-06-09 13:19:06 UTC
Instead of nerfing carriers add some proper PVE content, add capital escalations the hubs/sanctums etc with scrambling battleships to hold the carriers in place so that content can be generated, people can still use carriers, and get great rewards but at much higher risk balancing things out.
Mierin Arthie
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#311 - 2017-06-09 13:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mierin Arthie
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.
This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.
We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


Why not just reduce bounty payouts? Isnt that the problem?

Please CCP, you should have at least 2 functioning braincells available at the office. Rub them togeather and you should be able to come up with something better than this. It would also go a long way in preventing errors like last nights skill pause script.
Kendarr
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#312 - 2017-06-09 13:19:26 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends.


Your not my friend!

MY DANK RATTING TICKS :'(

Zebra-Corp
Nick Samerr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#313 - 2017-06-09 13:20:01 UTC
good change :)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#314 - 2017-06-09 13:20:47 UTC
Sassura wrote:
[That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused.


I've been saying this to CCP on these forums for years. They create their own problems by not understanding that they have to be careful about giving people stuff that is too powerful, because people get used to it and feel like you took something away when you balance it.

My 1st brush with this was high sec lvl 5 missions. CCP introduced lvl 5 missions to give people incentive to go to low sec, but a bug let you spawn the actual mission in high sec if you were in a low sec system that bordered high sec. A whole high sec lvl 5 community spawned around this. And CCP took YEARS to fix it. So when they did the cry was "why did you remove lvl 5s from high sec?!?!?!?".

They tried to explain that they should have never been there in the 1st place but it was too late, the anger was already there.

CCP did this again and again, lately with ratting carriers and rorqs. You can see by this thread and others how it's being perceived.

CCP, stop putting OP stuff in in the 1st place and this won't happen.
Xantopeuss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#315 - 2017-06-09 13:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Xantopeuss
Ok here is my opinion.... First, You guys in CCP don't know anymore what are You doing. Second, the real problem for You is not to many isk (bounty), mining, production in EVE, You just work against Delve region and possible CFC in general.

Ok You will nerf fighters, rorqs etc. but You will do that to whole EVE Universe and again Delve will be No1. Why? In that one region 30000 people lives!!!! And how much people live in all others regions? 50000? I'm not takling about alts.
With this latest updates (and future one) You will only lost people... We like to play EvE but it seems that You work very hard to make us stop... Maybe thats the real goal? Maybe You have some better game with better income for CCP so its time for EVE to dye?
Fl4chz4ng3
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#316 - 2017-06-09 13:20:58 UTC
As always wh people will be happy and the others not

Tks for this change you just lost 2 subscriptions

Enjoy your subcaps 20m ticks people !
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#317 - 2017-06-09 13:23:39 UTC
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good.

yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase
the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded
people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold
they like seeing their wealth increase
people with wealth dont stockpile isk
they stockpile plex
when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease
thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex
until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it
Faruzen en Divalone
Divalone Orbital
#318 - 2017-06-09 13:24:11 UTC
I would really like to know, if all these people saying "I am unsubing", "I am canceling my accounts" really go and do it, or just try to take CCP hostage Big smile
Jonas Skypilot
Deep Axion
Honorable Third Party
#319 - 2017-06-09 13:24:46 UTC
Lucian James wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

...there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.
This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.


From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again...
CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money.

Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting.

If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money.

I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately.

#CCPigs



#CCPigs
iFars
Alkaid Broken Army
Pandemic Horde
#320 - 2017-06-09 13:24:54 UTC
If you notice that a member of your company has started to collect money for a car or a house - does he begin to receive lower wages?