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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Varg Wardruna
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#281 - 2017-06-09 13:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Varg Wardruna
Okay so mining becomes ****, Carrier ratting becomes ****, the good BS's become to expensive for Fleets..wtf should i do with my time? Station trading? running Missions in Highsec for close to no income?
You are giving your Customers a Tool to boost up their Characters as fast as they want by paying more $ and than you punish them for actually paying those extra $ into your Wallet?

But yeah, drop more Nerfs instead of caring about those Turds who post in Public that they made x Trillion ISK by exploiting the Game.

**** this ****.
+1unsub
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#282 - 2017-06-09 13:01:37 UTC
JC Mieyli wrote:

so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable

Go to the last economic blog, read the isk faucet figure. Then also realise that as of I think it was Feb 92% of all bounties come from Null Sec.
Now finally look at the slope of the isk graph in the last month.

Now apply some basic common sense, realise that the isk faucet figure jumped hugely when the carrier change went through and has been hidden for a few months by other circumstance such as the change in what defines 'active' isk, and accounts leaving again after the sudden spike when they returned.

This will only slow down the recent inflation, not stop it by any means, plenty of isk will still be farmed in null and plenty of that from carriers.
LEEL000
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#283 - 2017-06-09 13:01:50 UTC
CCP u are doing harakiri, u know that right ?
Linda Bradford Raschke
LBR Group
#284 - 2017-06-09 13:02:08 UTC
So in an effort to curb capital dominance in pvp and pve, you've essentially made battleships do more effective dps to anything smaller than a carrier. Dreads do FAR more dps than a carrier and cost about the same. Dreads can compete with supers for dps at a massively lower risk level, which also makes them a much less desirable target, further discouraging fights because people are far less likely to form up for a 3b dread kill than a 30b super kill.

So what role do you want the carrier to play, exactly, CCP? Because at this point, I can't think of anything the carrier does better than a cheaper ship, other than buffer tank. But buffer tank is useless when your damage output is so easily reduced to zero.

I'd also like to know what mountain of logic came to the conclusion that carriers, which cannot be effectively multiboxed and make 200m/hour, are somehow inflating the economy, as opposed to something like a vni or ishtar which can make 54m/hour with very little input, making them easily scale. 4 accounts and you've outpaced a carrier pilot with less risk and less effort. Carrier pilots can't scale. Literally it cannot be done by a human.

There used to be a time when this game was balanced around risk/reward, effort, and skill. Now it seems to be balanced around a magic 8 ball.

I was considering re-subbing my 5 accounts after a 6 month break which was directly caused by a lack of available content. But it's pretty clear that you're doing nothing to create new content, and you are continuing to push knee-jerk reaction patches that only push the problem around or mask it, instead of attacking the problem at its source (which is largely a lack of content). So I guess I'll be back in another 6 months to see if you managed to get your act together, or a competitor took your place and filled the gaping hole you've left in this niche market.
ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#285 - 2017-06-09 13:02:42 UTC
Total Newbie wrote:
Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! !

You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue.

You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis!

You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell.

You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content.

And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting?????????

The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME!

Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play.


dont you have multiple CSM reps thats supposed to talk for you? oh rite no they dont.
Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#286 - 2017-06-09 13:02:43 UTC
another way to reduce the Isk ingame is to get rid of insurance. No payout on ship death, plus a premium paid to CONCORD for cleaning up your "accident scene" in a percentage of your wallet by ship class. Frig and dessie? Oh lets say 1/2 % wallet. Capitals, lets arbitrarily say 5% of your WALLET. Tax the 1%'ers.

Implement a yearly income tax system that cannot be avoided. You do not pay your yearly income tax? Your wallet is seized. Your assets are seized. All tied to your api, so the "Forensic Accountants at CONCORD" will follow the money. Think you can evade the tax man? IP ban.

Do something to the isk scammers and market PVPers that have zero risk, sitting in Jita all day, manipulating markets, making uncounted billions with zero risk.

Give the working man a break.

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#287 - 2017-06-09 13:02:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.

People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board.
It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted).
This is a good thing.

To be fair, changes affect more than just ratting.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Burberry Muffin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#288 - 2017-06-09 13:03:05 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
Great changes


With all honesty man ur brainless douchebag....
Ezio Sotken
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#289 - 2017-06-09 13:03:36 UTC
Sassura wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.

People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board.
It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted).
This is a good thing.



People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs.



Its not the impact to PVE that concerns me, but the reality that this is actually a PVP nerf. They will once again give people a reason to not use carriers for pvp. They are already the most useless cap type for PVP as it is, and now its gonna be worse.

Faruzen en Divalone
Divalone Orbital
#290 - 2017-06-09 13:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Faruzen en Divalone
Sassura wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.

People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board.
It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted).
This is a good thing.



People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs.


He is reffering to overall economics, not exactly carrier damage nerf. While I disagree with Carrier PVP nerf, carrier PVE nerf alone is really needed, as is all ratting in fact. And Incursions. ISK is generated too quickly and too easily, causes inflation and in the end, the same ISK made now has lower purchasing power than couple of years back. Most obvious effect is PLEX price going up. The same ISK costs less and less in RL money. Thats how inflation works. Though I am no economist so correct me if I am wrong in any way.
Tom Marksson
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#291 - 2017-06-09 13:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tom Marksson
This update is horrible. If I fly a ship that costs 3 or even 25 billion ISK, I must be able to make much more profit than I could do on a 500 mil Rattlsnake. Because there's one universal rule:

Risk = ISK


I risk to lose my carrier/supercarrier to a first interceptor/cyno-Sabre while farming in null-sec, that's why I must receive an adequate amount of ISK to reimburse the loss, for example. If I don't - what's the point to undock a super? What's the point to buy a super? What's the point to learn a super? What's the point to create a separate account for a capital-holder?.. What's the point to have capitals and supercapitals in game? Let's remove all of them and fly in small-scale frigate gangs.

Why don't you in addition make capitals and supercapitals 50% cheaper to restore (what do you call it?) the "balance"?

Per aspera ad astra.
Krypleria
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#292 - 2017-06-09 13:06:54 UTC
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
Krypleria wrote:
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
August - Breeze wrote:
I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)

I encourage everyone to do the same thing!

CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income!


So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ...


It is actually from 150m to 90m with alot more risk to fighter losses wich bring that down even more.

Not too mention... the biggest problem in eve is actually there are NO more isk burners... like wars ... because .... CITADELS !



Is ISK really burned when you lose ships / citadels? Think about it.

You are paying for the things to someone else. He has the money now. You lose the ship/citadel, he still has the ISK you gave him. You generate more ISK via ratting, he mines more ore and makes more ships. You give him the generated ISK, he gives you ship. So what is burned here actually is ORE, not ISK. ISK is burned via insurances that expire, LP stores, NPC repairs and market taxes. The good ISK sink would be simply more transactions. So yea, wars do it too, but its not so direct and doesnt neccesarily have the effect.



ORE is not ISK making per se... it becomes ISK when someone that RATTED or made missions or incursions pays for the ORE in either hull or modules.

Losing a ship = a part of the total amount of ISK payed for it is lost even with ofc .. SRP ...

Please think about it....

So ...

Step 1. Make nullsec "Not safe" again
Step 2. Create situation in wich Alliances have incentives to go to war for territory/resources
Step 3: Advertise that content

instead of :

Step 1: Nerf isk makers
Step 2: Lose overall players because of lack of content
Step 3: Advertise PLEX
Step 4: Lose more overall players because PLEX and lack of content because less players.
Santinav
Back to Babylon
#293 - 2017-06-09 13:07:24 UTC
Lucian James wrote:
Total Newbie wrote:
Well Played CCP ! ! ! ! !

You have taken a war game and made it nearly impossible for any entity to deploy and have a good scrap. Hello Jump fatigue.

You forced entities into a sandbox in individual regions to play magical wands meet Harry Potter. Hello entosis!

You made the sandbox indestructible by allowing thousands of citadels that take a week to destroy. Hello Upwell.

You forced people to do nothing in the game but stay in their region ratting and mining to get some form of content.

And now you want to try to blame everything on Capital and Super Capital ratting?????????

The problem CCP is your utter lack of vision and your myopic view that left the part out, that this is a WAR GAME!

Well played indeed, politicians have nothing on you. You have garnered more control over a sinking ship, with the people who fund your venture literally finding another war game to play.


#CCPigs


#CCPigs
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#294 - 2017-06-09 13:07:25 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:


so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable
it makes plex more scarcer and more valuable
it makes isk harder to obtain
and encourages plex sales from players who struggle to farm isk


All of these are good things.

When I started ratting and getting 20 mil isk ticks in 2011 I was like WOW, 20 mil. 20 mill per tick back then meant I was RICH lol.

CCP buffed somethings and over time it took more and more and more ratting just to get the same amount of "purchasing power" I had in 2011. Now i got a Rattlesnake that can do 40 mil ticks and the feeling is like "meh"

It won't happen overnight, CCP screwed up when they opened up these big isk and mineral faucets and let them run for so long, be eventually things will settle and PVe activities in null will fell like they are worth it again as you don't have to grind near as much.

As I said, people are just too short sighted to see that this ends up being a good thing, especially for us who rat.

im not sure why they are good things
all it does is increase the time it takes people to plex
it doesnt cause the price of plex to drop
ccp want to keep rich players rich because they know they will hoard plex

i mean in the long term sure
maybe eventually the economy could reach a certain equilibrium
but not in any meaningful timeframe
Slivo
Beehive Surveillance
X877.
#295 - 2017-06-09 13:08:03 UTC
Any test on wormhole impact with those changes ? Or is your changes only based of nullsec players ?
Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
#296 - 2017-06-09 13:08:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Sassura wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I said this on reddit but I'll say it here too. I know it won't stop the freak out because people can be pretty dumb when it comes to money, but here it is anyways.

People are too short sighted to understand that these nerfs (this one to carriers/supers and the one about escalations) end up helping people by making deadspace loot and pirate BS BPCs way more valuable across the board.
It shifts the income making from anom grinding to doing 10/10s (sure you have to grind for them, but the fewer times you get them will eventually be made up by price after the current stockpiles are depleted).
This is a good thing.



People who don't agree with you may not be dumb. They may simply feel that a substantial nerf to fighters is not the best way to go about making the changes that this game needs.


I know that CCP has been heavy handed in the past. BUT it's easy to look at the MERs, see when carriers got buffed, see the explosion of null sec bounty generation, and understand that fighters were the cause of that.

This one time, CCP is nerfing the actual cause of the problem.



CCP have the games best interests at heart, Im sure. It's their business. That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused. I'm not convinced that the damage done by fighters is the actual cause of the problem, when infact only 3 of the 6 null sec ratting anoms are even considered worth ratting. Also, I ponder how the MER would have looked if even the newest players in EvE couldn't just splash some cash on their favourite game and inject into the 'top tier' isk making. That fact makes me feel like the player base deserve a little more respect than they are being shown with the latest fixes, which feel like they still fail to address the actual problems at a base level.
Faruzen en Divalone
Divalone Orbital
#297 - 2017-06-09 13:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Faruzen en Divalone
Tom Marksson wrote:
This update is horrible. If I fly a ship that costs 3 or even 25 billion ISK, I must be able to make much more profit than I could do on a 500 mil Rattlsnake. Because there's one universal rule:
Quote:
Risk = ISK


I risk to lose my carrier/supercarrier to a first interceptor/cyno-Sabre while farming in null-sec, that's why I must receive an adequate amount of ISK to reimburse the loss, for example. If I don't - what's the point to undock a super? What's the point to have a super? What's the point to learn a super? What's the point to have a separate account for a capital-holder?.. What's the point to have capitals and supercapitals in game? Let's remove all of them and fly in small-scale frigate gangs.

Why don't you in addition make capitals and supercapitals 50% cheaper to restore (what do you call it?) the "balance"?


No you cant simply make more money with bigger ships indefinitely. It would ruin the game economy if more people did it and prices of everything would skyrocket, making people who dont use your method of ISK generating effectively poor and not being able to afford anything, for example PLEX.
Burberry Muffin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#298 - 2017-06-09 13:09:21 UTC
Gwinet wrote:
Lucian James wrote:

From skill injectors, to pictures of gold bar stacks as Plex, to nerfing Rorquals time and time again...
CCP is coming off more and more like a money grubbing sh:t-heel of a company only interested in base profit for themselves and squeezing us out of our time and money.

Stop making it more difficult for people with less RL money and time to play this game. The people ratting in carriers and mining in rorquals spent a lot of time, money/isk and emotional investment getting into these ships. They do so because many are in areas of high-end PVP and this keeps them fighting.

If you have a problem with PVE areas with no PVP recourse... vast renter fields churning out isk that goes into a few wallets of pilots that never PVP nor spend it, find a creative way to deal with THAT problem, instead of nerfing everyone in what appears as a blatant attempt to get people to buy more Plex so you can horde our money.

I am getting really sick of your stupidity and carelessness lately.

#CCPigs
I absolutely agree!


AGREE
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#299 - 2017-06-09 13:09:38 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:

so in short all this does is make isk scarcer and more valuable

Go to the last economic blog, read the isk faucet figure. Then also realise that as of I think it was Feb 92% of all bounties come from Null Sec.
Now finally look at the slope of the isk graph in the last month.

Now apply some basic common sense, realise that the isk faucet figure jumped hugely when the carrier change went through and has been hidden for a few months by other circumstance such as the change in what defines 'active' isk, and accounts leaving again after the sudden spike when they returned.

This will only slow down the recent inflation, not stop it by any means, plenty of isk will still be farmed in null and plenty of that from carriers.

sure thats what im saying
but to somehow translate that into a decrease in plex prices is erroneous imo
Heleana Commodus Luyseyal
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#300 - 2017-06-09 13:11:55 UTC
Ok, lets all stop ratting in any other ship than VNI, why you may ask?

Because VNI/Ishtar gives you 20 mills ticks and you dont even need to lock targets, warp to a site drop drones and that is that, you dont need to even lock targets if your drones are set to agressive. Be back in 30-40 mins when your haven is done. Have 10x VNI accounts and thats it, and farm inflation till end of days.

CCP Logic - you DONT NEED TO DO NOTHING to get ISK because you employ high school kids that code for you, and that is not an issue. On the other hand you have drug adicts which are going trough statistical data and they gave us this perfect solution. Nerf a ship class which is already not that great at all in PvP, main reason why that class of ships even exist, because that ship can rat well, yeah it can rat good, but at a price, you can only use 1 carrier to do so, with a great micro managment from a player/APM. So it gives a good amount of isk for really big effort.

AFK VNI/Ishtars army, where you DONT NEED TO DO NOTHING for nice isk.With 0 effort, 0 skill points, 0 investment, everybody can have their personal VNI army, 5 VNI's / Ishtars basically pull same numbers as a carrier / super isk/h wise, but for 0 effort.Didnt come to your mind that this is actual problem, not carriers?

Simply introduce same mechanic which other ship have and VNI/Ishtars dont.They dont even need to LOCK THEIR TARGETS to be able to get ISK from them.