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Bltizing: Machariel vs Vargur
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Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#21 - 2017-06-07 00:23:08 UTC
Ion Kirst wrote:
Your blitzing is not the same as their BLITZING, so that is a mute point.


It's not really "mute" at all (nor even moot). Part of my original point was that people tend to define "blitzing" differently, therefore you have to make clear which definition you're using. Frankly, I don't understand why "BLITZING" L3s would be any different than "blitzing" L4s. The concept is the same. You simply have to specify which definition you're using.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#22 - 2017-06-07 23:42:50 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Ion Kirst wrote:
Your blitzing is not the same as their BLITZING, so that is a mute point.


It's not really "mute" at all (nor even moot). Part of my original point was that people tend to define "blitzing" differently, therefore you have to make clear which definition you're using. Frankly, I don't understand why "BLITZING" L3s would be any different than "blitzing" L4s. The concept is the same. You simply have to specify which definition you're using.


You can cut the English lessons, this ain't the place. I'm sure you've made mistakes too.

You are correct, people do tend to define blitzing differently. And the concept is not the same. I thought Jaz explained that.

When you run L4s, do you use a stopwatch? Are you trying to beat someone else's time?

"BLITZING" L3s, was emphasized with capital letters, as compared to regular "blitzing" using lower case letters.

(regular) "blitzing" missions is just doing what is required to satisfy the agent. It does not have to be done with break-neck speeds.

"BLITZING" the L3 missions, as I coined the emphasis years ago, is done with a stopwatch, and going like a bat out of hell.

I can "blitz" L4s in my slow-boat Golem. I don't have to go fast. I just have to do the minimum to get the job done. It is not ""BLITZING".

The "BLITZING" done by Jaz and Stoicfaux was a contest. Stoic want to see how fast he could "BLITZ" a mission. He also wanted to see how much he could make in doing so. All Jaz wanted to do, was to beat Stoic's times, following his rules. (when to start the stopwatch, and when to stop it.)

You can blitz L4s, doing it as fast as you can, but if you're not using a stopwatch, it's not "BLITZING".

That's it, I don't think I can explain it any other way.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#23 - 2017-06-08 05:10:48 UTC
Uhh...that's EXACTLY what contemporary L4/burner blitzing is. I can show you reams of spreadsheets with travel times, kill times, and transition times measured down to the second. And of course the relevant LP, isk rewards, bounties and faction salvage - culminating in the precise isk/hr earned. We aren't just pulling the 200m isk/hr figure out of thin air - it comes from carefully documented results. This subforum is full of people who have made a science out of blitzing at maximum speed to achieve the greatest isk/hr possible. That's exactly what blitzing is.

I'm not trying to devalue the "BLITZING" of your glory days. I'm sure it was magical. But it's not any different than what's being done with L4/burners today. Your definition and my definition are identical.

That said, obviously nobody uses a stopwatch every time they run missions. Sometimes you just casually grind missions while reading the forums or watching TV despite the fact you're using the same blitzing tactics as when you're going for time. Is that still "blitzing"? I don't know. I've never thought about it because I've never heard anybody try to distinguish the two play styles before.

Frankly, it's a silly distinction. If you're quoting performance numbers or isk/hr returns, it's assumed you're running at maximum speed and efficiency. Why do we need another definition of blitzing to describe using the same tactics employed at a relaxed pace? Under what conditions would I need a separate term to describe that? "I was exhausted from BLIZING for 3 hours straight, so I put on a movie and started blitzing instead." Yeah, that's not confusing at all.

There's already enough confusion out there regarding "blitzing". Muddying the waters with a useless variation of it just creates additional confusion while offering virtually no descriptive gain.

Or maybe I'm needlessly being a jack hole. That's certainly a distinct possibility as well.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#24 - 2017-06-08 16:39:02 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Uhh...that's EXACTLY what contemporary L4/burner blitzing is. I can show you reams of spreadsheets with travel times, kill times, and transition times measured down to the second. And of course the relevant LP, isk rewards, bounties and faction salvage - culminating in the precise isk/hr earned. We aren't just pulling the 200m isk/hr figure out of thin air - it comes from carefully documented results. This subforum is full of people who have made a science out of blitzing at maximum speed to achieve the greatest isk/hr possible. That's exactly what blitzing is.

I'm not trying to devalue the "BLITZING" of your glory days. I'm sure it was magical. But it's not any different than what's being done with L4/burners today. Your definition and my definition are identical.

That said, obviously nobody uses a stopwatch every time they run missions. Sometimes you just casually grind missions while reading the forums or watching TV despite the fact you're using the same blitzing tactics as when you're going for time. Is that still "blitzing"? I don't know. I've never thought about it because I've never heard anybody try to distinguish the two play styles before.

Frankly, it's a silly distinction. If you're quoting performance numbers or isk/hr returns, it's assumed you're running at maximum speed and efficiency. Why do we need another definition of blitzing to describe using the same tactics employed at a relaxed pace? Under what conditions would I need a separate term to describe that? "I was exhausted from BLIZING for 3 hours straight, so I put on a movie and started blitzing instead." Yeah, that's not confusing at all.

There's already enough confusion out there regarding "blitzing". Muddying the waters with a useless variation of it just creates additional confusion while offering virtually no descriptive gain.

Or maybe I'm needlessly being a jack hole. That's certainly a distinct possibility as well.


OK, fair enough. Well explained.

You are not being a jack hole.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#25 - 2017-06-09 20:14:45 UTC
I'd probably just call it speed running instead of BLITZING as speed running implies fast as possible and is a pretty widely used term among gamers.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#26 - 2017-06-13 04:29:56 UTC
OP:

By now I'm sure you realize the key advantage of the Mach in blitzing is its speed bonus, both warp and sub-warp. What hasn't been mentioned though, is how _insanely high the Mach's warp speed can get_.

Remember, its BASE warp-speed starts at 3 AU/sec (50% role bonus). But then, if you're serious about blitzing, you can:
- Use 3 Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II rigs
- A full set of ascendancy mid-grade or high-grade implants (I don't do the omega though, too expensive.)

You can hence get the Mach up to over.. get this.. 8 AU/sec.

When you blitz, most of your time is spent warping. This kills off most of that time.
Jazmyn Stone
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2017-06-13 13:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jazmyn Stone
8 AU/s is awesome! Especially for a BS.

However, my Tengu with same rigs and a WS-60, hits 9.32 AU/s.

And that is without any Ascendancy implants.

If I used Ascendancy implants the speed would hit over 12AU/s.

Needed the extra speed to beat the Mach in blitzing L3s.

-Jaz

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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