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CCP may you update the Insurance notifications please?

Author
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#1 - 2017-06-06 14:29:40 UTC
Dear CCP and dear capusleers,

if you insure your ship ingame, the following notification pops up:

Quote:
The selected ship will be insured for 12 weeks. The contract will be considered void if the ship is:
- Repackaged.
- Placed in a non-corporate item exchange or auction contract.
- Destroyed while in the possession of somebody else.
- Destroyed while the pilot is being actively pursued by CONCORD.


There is an old tradition in my corp, if we transport ships for another guy, we do it either via corp contract or by the trade window.

My Apostle was suddenly not insured and I found out why...

According to this article, which does not cover with the ingame notification:
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/212726885-Insurance

Quote:

If the ship is repackaged
If the ship exchanges owners, whether this is by trade, contracts or boarded in space
If the ship is placed in a corporation hangar.
If the ship was used to engage in activities which result in it being destroyed by CONCORD.



Feel free to discuss the issue :)
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#2 - 2017-06-06 14:39:19 UTC
May I suggest fixing the issue by removing insurance altogether?

Remove standings and insurance.

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2017-06-06 15:35:09 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
Dear CCP and dear capusleers,

if you insure your ship ingame, the following notification pops up:

Quote:
The selected ship will be insured for 12 weeks. The contract will be considered void if the ship is:
- Repackaged.
- Placed in a non-corporate item exchange or auction contract.
- Destroyed while in the possession of somebody else.
- Destroyed while the pilot is being actively pursued by CONCORD.


There is an old tradition in my corp, if we transport ships for another guy, we do it either via corp contract or by the trade window.

My Apostle was suddenly not insured and I found out why...

According to this article, which does not cover with the ingame notification:
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/212726885-Insurance

Quote:

If the ship is repackaged
If the ship exchanges owners, whether this is by trade, contracts or boarded in space
If the ship is placed in a corporation hangar.
If the ship was used to engage in activities which result in it being destroyed by CONCORD.



Feel free to discuss the issue :)


Well since it was hauled under contract, it surely was in someone else's possession...
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#4 - 2017-06-06 15:50:54 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Well since it was hauled under contract, it surely was in someone else's possession...


I was exchanged by a corp contract, and according to the ingame notification it would be fine.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2017-06-06 17:07:51 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Well since it was hauled under contract, it surely was in someone else's possession...


I was exchanged by a corp contract, and according to the ingame notification it would be fine.


In who's possession was it when it got destroyed?
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#6 - 2017-06-06 17:23:47 UTC
I have insured it, tradet it via ingame trade with my alt char and now the insurance is gone.

Ship is not exploded :)
Buggs LeRoach
DHCOx
#7 - 2017-06-07 12:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Buggs LeRoach
HandelsPharmi wrote:

I was exchanged by a corp contract, and according to the ingame notification it would be fine.

the corp contract's not the problem .

HandelsPharmi wrote:
I have insured it, tradet it via ingame trade with my alt char and now the insurance is gone.
Ship is not exploded :)


is the alt you traded to in your corp ?

HandelsPharmi wrote:

- Placed in a non-corporate item exchange or auction contract.


what part exactly don't you understand ? edit: bolded the important part Big smile
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#8 - 2017-06-07 12:14:59 UTC  |  Edited by: HandelsPharmi
Char A created a corp contract with the Apostle.
Char B accepted the contract.
Char B traveled and created a corp contract.
Char A accepted it.

Char A realizied, that the insurance is gone.


The ingame description is not correct and I have trusted it.

It says something completly different, than the OUTgame eve article... https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/212726885-Insurance
Buggs LeRoach
DHCOx
#9 - 2017-06-07 13:35:42 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
Char A created a corp contract with the Apostle.
Char B accepted the contract.
Char B traveled and created a corp contract.
Char A accepted it.

Char A realizied, that the insurance is gone.


The ingame description is not correct and I have trusted it.

It says something completly different, than the OUTgame eve article... https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/212726885-Insurance


char A seems to keep forgetting he traded it to char C , who's not in corp , thereby voiding the insurance .


HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#10 - 2017-06-07 16:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: HandelsPharmi
It looks like, I have not clearly shown, what I am talking about:

ingame:
Quote:
Placed in a non-corporate item exchange or auction contract.

= corp contract is okay

article on the eve online website:
Quote:
If the ship exchanges owners, whether this is by trade, contracts or boarded in space

corp contract = contract = insurance voided
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2017-06-07 18:14:51 UTC
Buggs LeRoach wrote:
HandelsPharmi wrote:
Char A created a corp contract with the Apostle.
Char B accepted the contract.
Char B traveled and created a corp contract.
Char A accepted it.

Char A realizied, that the insurance is gone.


The ingame description is not correct and I have trusted it.

It says something completly different, than the OUTgame eve article... https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/212726885-Insurance


char A seems to keep forgetting he traded it to char C , who's not in corp , thereby voiding the insurance .





Shocked

You did read this part,

"Char A created a corp contract...."

If Char B accepts it has to be that B is in the same corp.

I don't think the OP wants anything other than the in-game message to changed so people aren't caught out by this. Seems reasonable, if things have changed and the current warning message is misleading, then yeah it probably should be changed.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Buggs LeRoach
DHCOx
#12 - 2017-06-07 20:07:06 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Buggs LeRoach wrote:
HandelsPharmi wrote:
Char A created a corp contract with the Apostle.
Char B accepted the contract.
Char B traveled and created a corp contract.
Char A accepted it.

Char A realizied, that the insurance is gone.


The ingame description is not correct and I have trusted it.

It says something completly different, than the OUTgame eve article... https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/212726885-Insurance


char A seems to keep forgetting he traded it to char C , who's not in corp , thereby voiding the insurance .





Shocked

You did read this part,

"Char A created a corp contract...."

If Char B accepts it has to be that B is in the same corp.

I don't think the OP wants anything other than the in-game message to changed so people aren't caught out by this. Seems reasonable, if things have changed and the current warning message is misleading, then yeah it probably should be changed.


yes i read it , and op is correct , the in game and help page are contradictory . that does not mean it's the reason the insurance was voided . it could be :
HandelsPharmi wrote:
I have insured it, tradet it via ingame trade with my alt char and now the insurance is gone.


so trading it to someone not in corp would void the insurance . that's explained in game .
go ahead and file a petition ; all assembled ships have a unique id so ccp can track exactly the chain of custody .
good luck .



Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#13 - 2017-06-07 20:56:16 UTC
They should just make ship insurance an in-game item like a blueprint, and the payment goes to whoever holds on, that way it can be transferred with the ship.
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#14 - 2017-06-08 06:12:32 UTC
Buggs LeRoach wrote:

so trading it to someone not in corp would void the insurance . that's explained in game .
go ahead and file a petition ; all assembled ships have a unique id so ccp can track exactly the chain of custody .
good luck .



I have written "traded" but I wanted to say "contracted". Sorry for the missunderstanding.


And a petition has been already answered by a GM. He confirmed my issue specific issue.
... and told me to discuss in it in the forum. CCP cannot reimburst the insurance.
Maxim Corvinus
Royal Armaments
#15 - 2017-06-08 07:45:44 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
... and told me to discuss in it in the forum.


What he told you was to get lost and stop bothering him, just not in those words.
Buggs LeRoach
DHCOx
#16 - 2017-06-08 14:09:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Buggs LeRoach
HandelsPharmi wrote:
Buggs LeRoach wrote:

so trading it to someone not in corp would void the insurance . that's explained in game .
go ahead and file a petition ; all assembled ships have a unique id so ccp can track exactly the chain of custody .
good luck .



I have written "traded" but I wanted to say "contracted". Sorry for the missunderstanding.


And a petition has been already answered by a GM. He confirmed my issue specific issue.
... and told me to discuss in it in the forum. CCP cannot reimburst the insurance.

hopefully the GM explained where you made your mistake ; for the benefit of others i'll explain :

if you personal insure a ship , then try to place it in a corp contract , you get this popup warning :

Your ship, Condor is insured. If you create this contract the insurance will be voided, whether the ship changes hands or not.
Are you sure you want to continue?


disregarding and clicking thru popups is risky ; you can do it 100's of times but that one time it will bite you in the ass Big smile
Cristl
#17 - 2017-06-08 15:43:27 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
May I suggest fixing the issue by removing insurance altogether?
Largely this.

I'm all for keeping some levels of insurance to help out newer players. So someone who risks losing a Caracal in a level 2 mission has the chance to purchase full insurance coverage while he learns how to get untangled from large collidables etc. That's only fair. The higher the level of PVE, the lower the insurance, so the payout for losing your battleship in a level 4 would be less.

PVP, however, should be different: most loses would never be covered, and shouldn't:

"So, you're planning on attacking entrenched defenders in Aleppo in your Toyota?"
"Yep"
"Sounds sensible, sign here."

Nope.

But at the same time, I really feel that destroyed vessels should have some mineral return. So they could be salvaged for 'degraded mexallon' etc in addition to current salvage. It would obviously be quite bulky, maybe give some ships like the Noctis a special hold for 'degraded minerals' to aid logistics; however, pure ISK payouts for ships destroyed in dangerous space in PVP is poor gameplay.

Finally, what about highsec gank victims? This is harder. Ideally I'd like some function that attempts to balance the ship, the fittings and the cargo manifest, but I'll leave the details for now P
Beast of Constipation
Doomheim
#18 - 2017-06-09 21:51:51 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
Char A created a corp contract with the Apostle.
Char B accepted the contract.
Char B traveled and created a corp contract.
Char A accepted it.

Char A realizied, that the insurance is gone.


The ingame description is not correct and I have trusted it.

It says something completly different, than the OUTgame eve article... https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/212726885-Insurance


so you insured it first , and then made a corp contract , and ignored the pop-up that insurance would be voided , and somehow that's not your fault ? grow a pair and admit you made a mistake , not blame ccp with some straw-man argument .