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Iapetan Titan Class Idea
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Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-05-08 19:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Pryce Caesar
I have already brought this idea up in general discussion, but I decided I could introduce the discussion here formally, given enough ideas were proposed for it (along with added info):

Original Discussion Thread:

The Citadels and Engineering Complexes were introduced last year in EVE Online, and they have changed the way EVE is played drastically. Entire fleets have fought over, destroyed and have been destroyed in conflicts involving the Citadels in particular. The big change from regular stations is that both Citadels and Engineering Complexes can be manned by players, which contributes to how fully armed Citadels play a role in fleet battles that center around attempts at their destruction. The Drilling Platforms coming in the fall will also bring further change, especially for Industrialists.

But a recent post on Facebook about the ancient Iapetan Titans, and my look through the lore about them, made me wonder: could the Keepstar, a massive Citadel that possesses a Doomsday weapon, become a precursor to Iapetan Titans being introduced into the game for players?

There are references of he Soltueur Titans in the lore of past years, and even a CCP member last year confirmed that the Gallente would have deployed their Soltueur Titan wing into the Battle of Caldari Prime if things escalated. The Molyneux hijacking is even mentioned directly in the description of the Vanquisher Serpentis Titan. And the "Sky Mother" lore story implies a ship along these lines for Minmatar. Both the Keepstars and the Sotiyo are massive on their respective axes, about rivaling the sizes of what Iapetan Titans could be.

The Keepstar and Sotiyo theoretically would represent the first step in making such massive ships viable for gameplay - a massive player-manned station with High, Mid and Low Slots. The second step would be to make such a massive object able to move through space. I do not know what size the old Iapetan Titans were in the game files (or Molyneux, which actually had an event based around it back in 2006), but I can imagine them being the size of Keepstars...If not bigger.

I would imagine, in the theoretical circumstance that they are made available, that CCP would put a cap on the number that can be built, like the Palatine Keepstar. For example, say only five of each Iapetan Titan from each faction can exist at any one time.
These could be made attainable or used in-game in a number of way:

Usage:

1. A Multi-Purpose Super-capital. Rather than be restricted to Doomsdays as its specialty, it will be able to use the same Siege Modules as Dreadnoughts, and able to field flights of fighters like the Carriers and Super-Carrier, while possessing improved versions of the bonuses Titans have.

2. A secondary mode as a Citadel. Because the Iapetans would be too large to dock into a regular Keepstar, you can have them enter a secondary, reinforced mode that makes them stationary and function like a Keepstar. In that same sense, they can function as mobile Citadels. Yes, this would include industrial capabilities.

3. Fleet Transportation. The Iapetans are big enough to house even other Titans inside them, so an Alliance/Coalition could use the Iapetans as hot-droppers into a battle-zone where, once they arrive, the Alliance in charge of it is able to deploy entire fleets from them into the heat of battle.

4. Mass-Fleet Jump Drive. A large scale version of the Micro Jump Field Generator, an Iapetan could be able to jump an entire fleet from one system to another without the need for the rest of the fleet to expend Jump Drive fuel.

Attainability/NPC Use (both ideas proposed by Eternus8lux8lucis):

1. Low-Sec Faction Warfare. The idea came up that an Iapetan Class Titan could become the "final warzone control" for Faction Warfare areas of low-sec. " If total warzone control is achieved the titan of both factions goes permanently vulnerable. Victory is achieved by "destroying" the opposing titan and a successful defense is achieved by destroying the warzone controllers titan. Both must be done in the opponents own high sec given a limited FW NPC response; decreasing per timer with the first being a hard floor on the force and dps needed, while the secondary and tertiary timers are very limited as "defense forces" scatter and are left up to the FW militia members." - Eternus8lux8lucis

NOTE: That said, I have pointed out in the previous thread that use of Iapetans by the four empires is considered a declaration of war, something not even the use of a Titan can provoke.

2. Final Large-scale battles (like what will go on with the Sotiyo Shipyards in the next release) for Pirate Faction events. In a sense, it would be an up-scaled version of the Mothership/HQ sites in "Sansha Incrusions", where players destroy a Supercarrier to end the Incrusion and get faction BPC. It would also give larger groups of players more incentive to participate in the new annual events, with new potential for rewards: when players collectively complete a certain number of event sites by event's end, it triggers an "Iapetan Titan" site in the Faction's home region that acts like the aforementioned Sotiyo Shipyard - any player attempts to attack will face the advanced AI fleets, and the power of the Titan itself - and like the old Molyneux event.

Completion of any of the above could result in the same loot drops as the Sansha Supercarrier and the upcoming Sotiyo, along with a guaranteed Iapetan Titan BPC drop for player use. Complete Warzone control for Empire Iapetans, and the annual nature of the pirate faction events, would contribute to their rarity and value, equalizing it with their utility and power.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#2 - 2017-05-08 20:15:30 UTC
Lapedan titans were the first generation of titans and they were never made available for obvious reasons, neither will they ever be.

And gameplay-wise, what exactly would a gigantic super-titan add of value to the game? Nothing. Nothing at all. It would only screw things up even more.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2017-05-08 20:30:56 UTC
First point: Why?

Second point:

Why on earth would a FW final boss battle be in highsec?
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2017-05-08 20:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Pryce Caesar
Linus Gorp wrote:
Lapedan titans were the first generation of titans and they were never made available for obvious reasons, neither will they ever be.

And gameplay-wise, what exactly would a gigantic super-titan add of value to the game? Nothing. Nothing at all. It would only screw things up even more.


Did I not just explain it?

It gives greater motivation for players to run the seasonal Pirate Faction events, and the reward of a BPC for one of these Titans would invigorate Factional Warfare.

Even if the Iapetans themselves are not given BPC, they could still provide a treasure trove of valuable items for other BPC or modules, like mobile versions of the upcoming Pirate Sotiyo Shipyards.

In other words, massive NPC ships for events, if CCP decides they're not going to make them available for players to fly (like Drone and Drifter ships).

Danika Princip wrote:
First point: Why?


Lore reasons. The "Sky Mother" story mentions something along the lines of a "hive ship", an older idea that mirrors this, from what I can tell. This is on top of the instances I mentioned above: the old Molyneux event is mentioned in the Vanquisher's description, and a CCP member stated that the Soltueur would have been deployed to the battle of Caldari Prime if the event escalated.

Quote:

Second point:

Why on earth would a FW final boss battle be in highsec?


It could be a mis-type, since I wasn't the one who initially put forth the Factional Warfare idea.

It would be best for the Iapetan to be in the Low-Sec region where Factional Warfare takes place.


As to what would make these kinds of ships feasible to be built in-game compared to the lore counterparts (if made available to players):

The Upwell Consortium structures are considerable advancements in-universe in regards to industrial capabilities. A lore reason could be introduced through Upwell that allows them to speed up the process of manufacturing a Iapetan Titan from decades to...Let's say half a year to one year (2-4 times the build time of a regular Titan).

Again, these would not be easy to obtain, off-set by the difficulty of attaining them and their overall build time.
Sterling Blades
Windstalker Security Corp
United Neopian Federation
#5 - 2017-05-11 04:11:51 UTC
Only way I can see this even being remotely entertaining is if the completion of construction and deployment of an Iapetan would cause a mass hostility response from the empires and concord. Because Iapetans are to Titans what Tsar Bomba was to the Atom Bomb.

The gods are out there. They watch us. They guide, they manipulate. We rally behind the ones we adore, and rain fire against those who rally behind the ones we hate. The question now is, to whom does your allegiance fall behind, dear Empyreans?
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-05-30 19:39:38 UTC
Sterling Blades wrote:
Only way I can see this even being remotely entertaining is if the completion of construction and deployment of an Iapetan would cause a mass hostility response from the empires and concord. Because Iapetans are to Titans what Tsar Bomba was to the Atom Bomb.


The Empires and CONCORD are able to lock out regular Capitals and even Titans from jumping into High-Sec. While one of the suggestions for implementing Iapetans is to have them participate as "final bosses" in Faction Warfare, a player-owned IIapetan could be locked into Null-Sec entirely - locked out of any Empire space.

On top of that, there could also be a hard limit on how many Iapetans are allowed to be constructed in the game, like the Palatine Citadel (which no one has built yet).
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#7 - 2017-05-30 19:58:58 UTC
Pryce Caesar wrote:
On top of that, there could also be a hard limit on how many Iapetans are allowed to be constructed in the game, like the Palatine Citadel (which no one has built yet).

The biomass tubes are that way -->

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Axure Abbacus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-05-30 22:33:06 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:
Pryce Caesar wrote:
On top of that, there could also be a hard limit on how many Iapetans are allowed to be constructed in the game, like the Palatine Citadel (which no one has built yet).

The biomass tubes are that way -->


Reminder: CCP is a business and children are expensive. These people have been accommodating for almost 15 years now. As someone who funded White-wolf games for ten years, I am realistic about how game companies work.

This is an Easy addition to the Game. Build as Many Lapetan Titans as you want. Can ONLY be built at a Palatine Keepstar. Even better, add the special ability to the Palatine Keepstar that it counts as holding Sov when building Super Capitals. Let some builder corp set it up in a WH so they can have their own private super titan land.

They can fund actual fun content. How will you be PLexing that?

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2017-05-31 04:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhaegon Aesir
Axure Abbacus wrote:

I am realistic about how game companies work.
...
Axure Abbacus wrote:

This is an Easy addition to the Game.


Are you havin a fookin giggle mate???


Axure Abbacus wrote:

Let some builder corp set it up in a WH so they can have their own private super titan land.

No supers and titans in wormhole space, thank you very much.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#10 - 2017-05-31 05:56:46 UTC
Axure Abbacus wrote:
This is an Easy addition to the Game. Build as Many Lapetan Titans as you want. Can ONLY be built at a Palatine Keepstar. Even better, add the special ability to the Palatine Keepstar that it counts as holding Sov when building Super Capitals. Let some builder corp set it up in a WH so they can have their own private super titan land.

They can fund actual fun content. How will you be PLexing that?

Have you ever heard of this thing they call game balance? I guess not.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Axure Abbacus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2017-05-31 14:42:40 UTC
This guy wants to play eve on Hard and I support that. If he wants to chase a Keepstar that is never Invulnerable, more power to him. Good Luck and enjoy the journey. 07 The market is way too overstocked as is and the Devs keep inviting us burn it all. Build big and blow it up!

I say if he wants this item, he should have to build the Palatine Keepstar to build it is more than enough of "game balance". That would allow the devs the time to stat one Uber-titan out. Google it if you need to.
https://updates.eveonline.com/card/7gqVr/palatine-keepstar/

The level of effort that goes into construction in eve and the amount of players it can take is impressive. Check out the story on Hard Knocks building the first Keep star. He digs the stories- that's great. Maybe you guys don't- that's fine. Obviously the Eve fiction wasn't written for everyone in mind. What matters is what type of story would this item make? How much influence would it take to generate this item? Finally, are you willing to undock and try to stop him from getting this item? If you are not, he has earned his corner of the sand box.

I understand that some of you think Eve is screwed up and it is in many ways. Every time the Devs have to nerf a release because pilots complain, eve gets a little more screwed up. Eve continues to become a place of known possibilities and every time some new unknown pops up people complain if they can't beat it in the first hour or so. Every release is another new monster you have to change fleet composition to face. Face it and enjoy because in the end, everything burns. Agress a drifter Battleship to find out how Nerf safe your ships are. That's on your fellow pilots.

Steve the Titan (25th September, 2006 - 11th December 2006)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVz4IfjpoS4

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2017-06-02 11:38:10 UTC
Don´t forget the old AOE Doomsday which hit´s the whole grid, of course without delay, the damage cap, the invu phases, 100% Ewar resistance a mining doomsday and everything else you want.

-1
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2017-06-02 11:41:11 UTC
Axure Abbacus wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
Pryce Caesar wrote:
On top of that, there could also be a hard limit on how many Iapetans are allowed to be constructed in the game, like the Palatine Citadel (which no one has built yet).

The biomass tubes are that way -->


Reminder: CCP is a business and children are expensive. These people have been accommodating for almost 15 years now. As someone who funded White-wolf games for ten years, I am realistic about how game companies work.

This is an Easy addition to the Game. Build as Many Lapetan Titans as you want. Can ONLY be built at a Palatine Keepstar. Even better, add the special ability to the Palatine Keepstar that it counts as holding Sov when building Super Capitals. Let some builder corp set it up in a WH so they can have their own private super titan land.

They can fund actual fun content. How will you be PLexing that?


Yes, because fighting an op ship without any chance of killing it is fun. For any reasons, i can´t understand.

-1
Axure Abbacus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-06-02 12:41:43 UTC
IN C9N-CC lies the Steve Memorial. Steve was the first OP Avatar-class Titan that you would consider "unkillable".

Aspire to be a great as the pilots that brought down Steve or who have destroyed Keepstars. Those who believe that they can build the Impossible, will, and those who believe they can destroy the Impossible will. The rest, well they get to read about it from hi sec.

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#15 - 2017-06-02 13:05:10 UTC
Axure Abbacus wrote:
IN C9N-CC lies the Steve Memorial. Steve was the first OP Avatar-class Titan that you would consider "unkillable".

Aspire to be a great as the pilots that brought down Steve or who have destroyed Keepstars. Those who believe that they can build the Impossible, will, and those who believe they can destroy the Impossible will. The rest, well they get to read about it from hi sec.

Steve didn't shoot back because CYVOK was ******** enough to log out with an aggression timer. We scanned him down and killed him without any opposition. Nothing impossible about that.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2017-06-02 14:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhaegon Aesir
Axure Abbacus wrote:
IN C9N-CC lies the Steve Memorial. Steve was the first OP Avatar-class Titan that you would consider "unkillable".

Aspire to be a great as the pilots that brought down Steve or who have destroyed Keepstars. Those who believe that they can build the Impossible, will, and those who believe they can destroy the Impossible will. The rest, well they get to read about it from hi sec.


Seems like you are looking at things through rose-tinted glasses without knowing what you are talking about.

Steve the titan died within 5 minutes of being shot at with no resistance because the pilot logged out. There has only been a single active keepstar destroyed, and it was only destroyed by a group of the most powerful and wealthy alliances in the game, and after several absolutely massive tidi-laden battles where people could barely move or lock targets for hours on end.

Those pilots didn't kill those things because they were great. They killed them because they had more friends, bigger toys, and more ISK than their opponents. There was no amount of "believing" that went into the demise of Steve or the Co2 keepstar. Only bigger blobs and blingier ships.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#17 - 2017-06-02 15:17:29 UTC
Axure Abbacus wrote:


Aspire to be a great as the pilots that brought down Steve or who have destroyed Keepstars.


I went afk for 20 minutes to hang up Christmas decorations during the last timer in M-O.

Behold my greatness.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2017-06-02 15:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Pryce Caesar
Linus Gorp wrote:
Axure Abbacus wrote:
IN C9N-CC lies the Steve Memorial. Steve was the first OP Avatar-class Titan that you would consider "unkillable".

Aspire to be a great as the pilots that brought down Steve or who have destroyed Keepstars. Those who believe that they can build the Impossible, will, and those who believe they can destroy the Impossible will. The rest, well they get to read about it from hi sec.

Steve didn't shoot back because CYVOK was ******** enough to log out with an aggression timer. We scanned him down and killed him without any opposition. Nothing impossible about that.


B-R5RB.

More Titans died in that one battle alone than ever did in EVE's entire history up to that point. As stated earlier, when something new comes into the game, you can be assured that there will be players who will be intent on being the first to destroy it. The Iapetan Titans would be different, and their quantity would be controlled by their size, the amount of material required to build them, and manufacture time.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#19 - 2017-06-02 15:44:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Linus Gorp
Pryce Caesar wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
Axure Abbacus wrote:
IN C9N-CC lies the Steve Memorial. Steve was the first OP Avatar-class Titan that you would consider "unkillable".

Aspire to be a great as the pilots that brought down Steve or who have destroyed Keepstars. Those who believe that they can build the Impossible, will, and those who believe they can destroy the Impossible will. The rest, well they get to read about it from hi sec.

Steve didn't shoot back because CYVOK was ******** enough to log out with an aggression timer. We scanned him down and killed him without any opposition. Nothing impossible about that.


B-R5RB.

More Titans died in that one battle alone than ever did in EVE's entire history up to that point. As stated earlier, when something new comes into the game, you can be assured that there will be players who will be intent on being the first to destroy it. The Iapetan Titans would be different, and their quantity would be controlled by their size, the amount of material required to build them, and manufacture time.

I already pointed out why that's a ******** idea. You're dumb even by FCon standards, so no point repeating myself. Just accept that you're dumb and then let the thread die.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2017-06-02 16:12:46 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:
Pryce Caesar wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
Axure Abbacus wrote:
IN C9N-CC lies the Steve Memorial. Steve was the first OP Avatar-class Titan that you would consider "unkillable".

Aspire to be a great as the pilots that brought down Steve or who have destroyed Keepstars. Those who believe that they can build the Impossible, will, and those who believe they can destroy the Impossible will. The rest, well they get to read about it from hi sec.

Steve didn't shoot back because CYVOK was ******** enough to log out with an aggression timer. We scanned him down and killed him without any opposition. Nothing impossible about that.


B-R5RB.

More Titans died in that one battle alone than ever did in EVE's entire history up to that point. As stated earlier, when something new comes into the game, you can be assured that there will be players who will be intent on being the first to destroy it. The Iapetan Titans would be different, and their quantity would be controlled by their size, the amount of material required to build them, and manufacture time.

I already pointed out why that's a ******** idea. You're dumb even by FCon standards, so no point repeating myself. Just accept that you're dumb and then let the thread die.


Oooh, such scathing words...If I considered petty insults to have any weight or meaning.

I am ambitious. I want to see what new innovations CCP is able to introduce into the game that make it more exciting and increase the level of gameplay. For example, the Sotiyo Shipyards for the Pirate Faction, a new level of PvE Risk and Reward - beat the new, advanced NPC AI that defends the Sotiyo, and you earn Pirate Faction Capital BPC.

The Iapetans can be the same deal for NPC combat, if CCP makes that decision. CCP has the lore they can draw upon; they have the means to develop it, and a pre-existing template with the Sotiyo and Keepstar structures.

I want to see the game develop. I am not concerned with wanting CCP to benefit solely me, which I often times suspect is why some players speak out over CCP adding something new that doesn't directly benefit them.
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