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Does CSM have a 'carebear' representative?

First post
Author
Sicex
#41 - 2012-01-23 23:33:20 UTC
But what people continue to fail to recognize is that the CSM is an out-of-game organization. Characters (aka The Mittani) do not sit on the CSM, Alex does.

The Mittani will always be bloodthirsty, but I bet Alex appreciates a good foot rub...
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-01-23 23:40:52 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
I agree. There are some nullsec CSMs who have an interest in all parts of space being developed. Not everyone is bad. I think the issue (for this past CSM) is that Mitanni has publicly come out and made it an either/or proposition. Ex; "You're either with us (nullsec) or againt us."


Has he?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Umega
Solis Mensa
#43 - 2012-01-23 23:51:53 UTC
Sicex wrote:
But what people continue to fail to recognize is that the CSM is an out-of-game organization. Characters (aka The Mittani) do not sit on the CSM, Alex does.

The Mittani will always be bloodthirsty, but I bet Alex appreciates a good foot rub...


This is quite true.

People put too much weight on the notion that how someone acts and behaves ingame is a direct window, and tell-all of that person's rl personality. Which is utter bullshit.

Now on the idea of disbanding CSM - my opinion, No.

Reworking it - my opinion, No.

It is upto the people to vote. If they don't vote.. shut up and remain voiceless. It is upto the candidates to campaign as best as they can. Failure to do so is fail on the candidates part, no one elses. If you campaign great, advertise well.. and don't win.. guess what, more people liked someone else's ideals better than yours. Deal with it and own it.

If 'carebears' aren't being elected much.. it should tell some of you something, and that maybe the majority aren't ready nor want a teddybear fueled by rainbows and guns that shoot daisies in EVE.

Reminder.. CONCORD kills = no Insurance payouts. Voices are heard on both sides in recent memory.

Just because things are stated in CSM.. doesn't mean CCP is going to go on and implement everything said. And give them some credit.. I'm sure they hear some things stated by CSMs and think 'oh god this guy has got to be kidding, that is such a personal move for his/her alliance' while they nod their head as the CSM speaks.
Ai Shun
#44 - 2012-01-24 00:09:09 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
I agree. There are some nullsec CSMs who have an interest in all parts of space being developed. Not everyone is bad. I think the issue (for this past CSM) is that Mitanni has publicly come out and made it an either/or proposition. Ex; "You're either with us (nullsec) or againt us."


There is a difference between The Mittani and the player sitting on the CSM. I would be cautious to let my feelings towards a player who purposefully antagonises people influence any thinking relating to the CSM.
Mr M
Sebiestor Tribe
#45 - 2012-01-24 00:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr M
Deen Wispa wrote:
Cass Lie wrote:
The last true carebear representative was Ankh in CSM5 and she was a complete and utter disaster.
Why was Ankh a disaster? I wasn't playing Eve for that long to know.

Here's what we wrote about her

CSM Candidate - Ankhesentapemkah
The Unfortunate Truth About Ankhesentapemkah
The End of Ankh: To trust CCP, or Ankh?

What really happened is still only known by CCP and (I think) the other delegates of CSM5.

Share your experience

Write for the EVE Tribune

www.eve-tribune.com

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#46 - 2012-01-24 00:45:27 UTC
Mr M wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
Cass Lie wrote:
The last true carebear representative was Ankh in CSM5 and she was a complete and utter disaster.
Why was Ankh a disaster? I wasn't playing Eve for that long to know.

Here's what we wrote about her

CSM Candidate - Ankhesentapemkah
The Unfortunate Truth About Ankhesentapemkah
The End of Ankh: To trust CCP, or Ankh?

What really happened is still only known by CCP and (I think) the other delegates of CSM5.



I just want to point out by most folks standard I was a "carebear" CSM member. I was sad that after a certain spork thrower was tossed out there never was another seriously supported candidate that was more focused on things like:

PvE
High Sec
Low Sec
Mining
Industry
Trade
Independent Players/Small corps
Solo Play
Casual play
The "little guy"

Which was what I was focused on. I hope the recent display of how having a CSM so focused on elements of Eve that I feel the majority of players aren't that interested in could produce a backlash and get another CSM member or two elected in CSM7.

Should be interesting to see if there is enough concern to make the next CSM any different than the current one. The players could make that happen if they get involved.

Issler
Mr M
Sebiestor Tribe
#47 - 2012-01-24 00:57:44 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:

I just want to point out by most folks standard I was a "carebear" CSM member.

CSM Candidate - Issler DainzeSmile

Issler Dainze wrote:

Which was what I was focused on. I hope the recent display of how having a CSM so focused on elements of Eve that I feel the majority of players aren't that interested in could produce a backlash and get another CSM member or two elected in CSM7.

Should be interesting to see if there is enough concern to make the next CSM any different than the current one. The players could make that happen if they get involved.

I think it was a pretty good idea to have it like they had CSM back in 2003-2004 when they had representatives from big corp, small corp and solo players. It will always be a lot harder for the smaller groups to attract enough votes.

Share your experience

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www.eve-tribune.com

xxanjoahir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-01-24 01:11:35 UTC
tough question:

People have the right to play the game they way they intend.

Is it right that carebearing to some is the tuma of the game?
Is it right that we make carebearing so diffiult, boring and tedius that when they become a well oiled team they are regarded as "in-balanced".
Is it right that becuase "i live in null sec i deserve more isk per hour becuase of risk"?
Is it true that the entire game evolves around null sec... everytime someone in null sec cries its changed.... Wormholing which was a great feature has gone through the same tears from null sec *cough* CSM representatives...

Is there any fairness in the fact that all of the CSM are null sec entities?

You cant win in this game becuase no matter what you always end up upsetting someone and if im honest I would like to see a CSM that represents the entire eve player base.

In my opinion Null sec is far too easy, lived there for 3 years, didnt realise the potention until i moved back to empire, with all the cyno gens, best moons in the game, concentration of allies and intel channels null is about as safe as high sec apart from 1 thing it can be conquered. then you create an alt join the alliance who conquered you and get your stuff back.... pffffft.

Zangorus
Live Adult Entertainment
Federal Krab Office
#49 - 2012-01-24 01:17:26 UTC
ALL CAREBEARS ARE JUST ALTS

Like my comment and recieve 1 million isk ingame!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#50 - 2012-01-24 01:27:38 UTC
To me it seems a basic case of stupid sheep majority vs organized minority roflstomping them.

They will forever demand a "bear" CSM and then will either not vote or get bought up and vote for a null seccer.

Not surprised, RL is exactly the same after all.
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-01-24 01:44:39 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
Until people stop referring to them as Carebears, you're not going to get one. Too much of a stigma comes with the word 'carebearing'.


Funny, but I never saw anything wrong with the word. Better a carebear than a douchbag. (That's the flip side carebears right?)

A carebear is a risk averse person who wants the game changed to support their solo (sometimes multi) play style and forcing everyone else to play like them.

IE... they are douchbags.


Heh...this is like listening to atheists calling all christians intolerant, moronic bigots while claiming to be open minded and accepting of all. And no, not trying to start that flame war on that subject, that was the first thing that came to mind when I read that.

A carebear is anyone who will not put themselves in the line of fire for the greater good of the PvP community. The latter thinks they know best because they are "playing the game" and feel it is their duty to force all those who don't play the game that way to stop "doing it wrong". The latter cites that this "is a PvP-centric game" (ignoring the fact that many of the things that they cite are parts of other non-PvP-centric games [market games, resource gathering, et al] like WoW), and demand that it be only referred to as such. They also make claims that "carebears" (because PvErs is too hard to comprehend) are trying to ruin the game and cite how easy it is to see all the changes being enacted that do ruin the game. And of course, "risk adverse" stands for someone who will not intentionally become a victim for the lulz of others. In the eyes of these individuals, those who stay in Hisec are sub-humans, incapable of intelligent thought or deserving of any regard. Yep, carebears sure do ruin the game for others. Roll

As far as CSM is concerned, there absolutely needs to be reps from all three areas of Eve. Three from each, each with an equal voice. No CSM chair, each one focuses on what will make the game better for their constiuents. And before you go all "The Hisec CSMs will make hisec impossible to PvP in", no, all will be made to understand that the game is the way it is for a reason. That is what makes Eve, well...Eve.

The one thing that really bugs the ever-loving crap out of me is people from Nulsec sticking their nose in the affairs of Hisec. Really, if it affects you that much, then by all means, join in on the Hisec hijinks. Yes, Incursions are being abused, I agree. But beyond that, it's not near as bad as you think. The sky isn't falling, ready to crush the whole of Nulsec. If Nulsec is as hard or as dangerous as it is claimed to be, then why are you even here on these forums? Why aren't you fighting for everything you have every second of the day?

In other words, why are the affairs of lowly peasants even contemplated by the royal nobility of those greater than us? Has Nulsec become so boring that you have nothing else to truly concern yourselves over? You don't see the Hisec community up in arms over every little thing that goes on in Nulsec, do you? Cause most of them are far too busy doing whatever it is that they enjoy doing to really care about what's going on in Nulsec. They basically live and let live, recognizing that each one is where they are because that's where they want to be, and because the drama of doing the opposite is far too time consuming and completely in vain. They have far too much fun in what they do, whether it be market games, industry, missions, mining, etc. And if you try to take that away from them, they'll just leave and go play something else where they are free to do as they please. Anyone who doesn't isn't a trooper for doing what others want them to do, they're just a mindless drone, without intelligent thought or worthy of regard. Those are the ones that deserve no respect.
"If."
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#52 - 2012-01-24 02:27:45 UTC
Nephilius wrote:

As far as CSM is concerned, there absolutely needs to be reps from all three areas of Eve. Three from each, each with an equal voice. No CSM chair, each one focuses on what will make the game better for their constiuents. And before you go all "The Hisec CSMs will make hisec impossible to PvP in", no, all will be made to understand that the game is the way it is for a reason. That is what makes Eve, well...Eve.


In real life this would probably work since people are people.

In EvE though, a person might be 3, 6, 9, 12, who knows..... since many null sec players have hi-sec alts or many null sec alliances have high sec presences, what would probably end up happening is all the hi-sec slots would be filled with alts supported by null alliances with that dynamic in mind.

Though I think in general many of the posts in this thread demonstrate exactly why the CSM would benifit from a dedicated carebare or two. Many seem to have the attitude that people focusing on nullsec play have the 'big picture' in mind and thus are representative of the whole base, which shows the systemic 'we are doing it right, other styles are doing it wrong' mentality that so pisses off carebares.

But, as has been pointed out, the likelyhood of getting an unaffiliated carebare in there is not very good. Just like getting independent canidates on real political tickets is so difficult, competing with the existing infrastructure of alliances is not really feasible unless one has a cult following.

Hrm.. time to draft Chribba?
Xenuchrist
The Scope
#53 - 2012-01-24 03:35:48 UTC
Mr M wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
Cass Lie wrote:
The last true carebear representative was Ankh in CSM5 and she was a complete and utter disaster.
Why was Ankh a disaster? I wasn't playing Eve for that long to know.

Here's what we wrote about her

CSM Candidate - Ankhesentapemkah
The Unfortunate Truth About Ankhesentapemkah
The End of Ankh: To trust CCP, or Ankh?

What really happened is still only known by CCP and (I think) the other delegates of CSM5.


Oh God... reading the comments in those articles... I had completely forgotten about her -shall we say enthusiastic* fans.

--  "In human stupidity, when it is not malicious, there is something very touching, even beautiful... There always is." /Tolstoy

Mr M
Sebiestor Tribe
#54 - 2012-01-24 03:49:10 UTC
Nekopyat wrote:
dedicated carebare or two
Token highsecer, I like Smile


Stated in another thread 85% of the EVE population didn't vote. If they had bothered they could've voted in about any candidate, including ****** or ******. And if they had just taken the time they would've seen that there where quite a few different high sec candidates.

Last time there were even a voting match http://match.eve-csm.com . If you had taken 5 minutes to fill out that you could've been fed pre chewed candidates with the same opinions as you. There was even a link to the voting match page on the log in page of the EVE client.

I usually hate name calling and find it utterly unproductive, but I must say that those of you who couldn't take 5 minutes to fill out the voting match and now spend hours on the forum complaining, you are the true carebears.

Share your experience

Write for the EVE Tribune

www.eve-tribune.com

CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2012-01-24 11:05:10 UTC
Thread locked.

If you have a question concerning the CSM please use the Jita Park Speakers Corner.

As an additional aside, you may think moderation has been lax of late but let me assure you that we are watching and taking notes of thread disruptions caused by back and forth trolling. When that ban hits your inbox, rest assured that you will know exactly what it is for.
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